Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: 601 down... (Randy)
2. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: 601 down... (Bryan Martin)
3. 10:31 AM - Re: Re: 601 down... (fritz)
4. 03:48 PM - Re: 601 down... (Sabrina)
5. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: 601 down... (Paul Mulwitz)
6. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: 601 down... (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Message 1
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What where the events???
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrycmcfarland@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: 601 down...
> <larrycmcfarland@gmail.com>
>
> Phill,
>>From the description of the events bringing the plane down, I'd bet it was
> not B-modified to reinforce the center section and center spar.
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airvair601
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 7:35 AM
> To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601 down...
>
>
> Was this a "B" conversion?
>
> --------
> Phill Hartig
> N325FG
> 601HDS trigear,
> Corvair
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370150#370150
>
>
>
Message 2
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I haven't been able to find enough details about the incident to make any guess
about whether or not it had been modified.
According to reports, one witness stated that the plane "nose dived" into the ground.
The few photographs I have been able to dig up on-line seem to confirm
that description.
At least one photo I've seen shows both wings still attached to the fuselage and
in their proper positions, although severely damaged by a frontal impact. It's
hard to tell because of the tarps over the wreckage but the tail cone seems
to be folded up and forward over the cabin area. About what you'd expect from
a high speed frontal impact. I don't see any signs of the empanage, but that
could have detached on impact and been thrown clear of the crater. On the other
hand, if the horizontal stabilizer became detached in the air that could cause
a nose dive as described. I'm not saying this is what happened since I don't
have enough details to even make a wild guess about the cause. I think it would
be a good idea to wait for a report from someone who actually knows what they're
talking about before making any further comments.
On Apr 6, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Larry McFarland wrote:
>
> Phill,
> From the description of the events bringing the plane down, I'd bet it was
> not B-modified to reinforce the center section and center spar.
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> Do not archive
>
>
>
> Was this a "B" conversion?
>
> --------
> Phill Hartig
> N325FG
> 601HDS trigear,
> Corvair
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 3
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What the picture shows----- Are you talking about the picture that was in
the newspaper?
It is hard to tell even blowing the picture up in size.
In what appears to be the wings, on the left side of the picture, are we
looking at a "wing spar" minus the leading edge skin and ribs or what? It
looks to big to be the aft spar minus flaps and aileron???????? I can't
tell.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: 601 down...
> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> I haven't been able to find enough details about the incident to make any
> guess about whether or not it had been modified.
>
> According to reports, one witness stated that the plane "nose dived" into
> the ground. The few photographs I have been able to dig up on-line seem to
> confirm that description.
>
> At least one photo I've seen shows both wings still attached to the
> fuselage and in their proper positions, although severely damaged by a
> frontal impact. It's hard to tell because of the tarps over the wreckage
> but the tail cone seems to be folded up and forward over the cabin area.
> About what you'd expect from a high speed frontal impact. I don't see any
> signs of the empanage, but that could have detached on impact and been
> thrown clear of the crater. On the other hand, if the horizontal
> stabilizer became detached in the air that could cause a nose dive as
> described. I'm not saying this is what happened since I don't have enough
> details to even make a wild guess about the cause. I think it would be a
> good idea to wait for a report from someone who actually knows what
> they're talking about before making any further comments.
>
> On Apr 6, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Larry McFarland wrote:
>
>> <larrycmcfarland@gmail.com>
>>
>> Phill,
>> From the description of the events bringing the plane down, I'd bet it
>> was
>> not B-modified to reinforce the center section and center spar.
>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>> Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>> Was this a "B" conversion?
>>
>> --------
>> Phill Hartig
>> N325FG
>> 601HDS trigear,
>> Corvair
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
>
>
>
Message 4
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Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370250#370250
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/17302455_bg1_158.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/17299260_bg1_212.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/unknown_192.jpeg
Message 5
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Nice job finding those pictures, Sabrina.
I did a little playing around with the three images and came to some
conclusions.
In the small picture, I think we are looking at the right wing aileron
and flap structure. I can't see the rivet lines or any suggestion that
there was a balance bar installed in the aileron tip as required by the
"Update".
In one large picture I can see the left elevator and the curved front of
the rudder (the bent sheet of aluminum that mates with the aft area of
the fuselage). I can't see the whole rudder, but that doesn't tell me
anything.
In the other large picture I see both tires suggesting we are looking at
the wreckage from the tail end (it could be the nose, but I think it is
more likely the tail). Again I can see an aileron (this time the left
aileron at the left side of the photo). Even with some fooling around
with the contrast and colors I see no rivet line or any other evidence
that mass balance "Update" has been applied to this plane.
I looked all over the FAA and NTSB accident databases and found next to
nothing. The FAA database shows a small reference to the accident and
nothing shows up on the NTSB database. FAA data shows the accident took
place March 30, 2012 at Belmont, OH. One fatality. Tail number N8060J.
I didn't look up the N number today but I did a few days ago and it is
in the registry.
My best guess is that this plane did not receive the AMD "Update". I
would also hazard a wild guess that it did not experience an in flight
structure failure since all the parts seem to be together. This is just
a guess because there is so little real information I could get out of
these pictures.
I think the NTSB investigates all fatal accidents, but so far I don't
think they have any information posted. Perhaps a few weeks will change
that status. Of course - since this was a home built plane rather than
a factory one they may not investigate it at all.
Paul
Camas, WA
N773PM in phase 1 flight test.
On 4/7/2012 3:48 PM, Sabrina wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Sabrina"<chicago2paris@msn.com>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370250#370250
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/17302455_bg1_158.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/17299260_bg1_212.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/unknown_192.jpeg
>
>
Message 6
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I see the wing stiffeners have been installed and I also see a green primer
line that could be from painting the balance arm and given the fact the
wings are in the proper position I would bet it was upgraded. I have seen
landings so hard the main gear tire hit the lower wing skin and did no damage
to the upgrade so given the force of this impact and the wings look
relatively fine I'd say it was done.
Jeff
In a message dated 4/7/2012 7:58:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, psm@att.net
writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Nice job finding those pictures, Sabrina.
I did a little playing around with the three images and came to some
conclusions.
In the small picture, I think we are looking at the right wing aileron
and flap structure. I can't see the rivet lines or any suggestion that
there was a balance bar installed in the aileron tip as required by the
"Update".
In one large picture I can see the left elevator and the curved front of
the rudder (the bent sheet of aluminum that mates with the aft area of
the fuselage). I can't see the whole rudder, but that doesn't tell me
anything.
In the other large picture I see both tires suggesting we are looking at
the wreckage from the tail end (it could be the nose, but I think it is
more likely the tail). Again I can see an aileron (this time the left
aileron at the left side of the photo). Even with some fooling around
with the contrast and colors I see no rivet line or any other evidence
that mass balance "Update" has been applied to this plane.
I looked all over the FAA and NTSB accident databases and found next to
nothing. The FAA database shows a small reference to the accident and
nothing shows up on the NTSB database. FAA data shows the accident took
place March 30, 2012 at Belmont, OH. One fatality. Tail number N8060J.
I didn't look up the N number today but I did a few days ago and it is
in the registry.
My best guess is that this plane did not receive the AMD "Update". I
would also hazard a wild guess that it did not experience an in flight
structure failure since all the parts seem to be together. This is just
a guess because there is so little real information I could get out of
these pictures.
I think the NTSB investigates all fatal accidents, but so far I don't
think they have any information posted. Perhaps a few weeks will change
that status. Of course - since this was a home built plane rather than
a factory one they may not investigate it at all.
Paul
Camas, WA
N773PM in phase 1 flight test.
On 4/7/2012 3:48 PM, Sabrina wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Sabrina"<chicago2paris@msn.com>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370250#370250
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/17302455_bg1_158.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/17299260_bg1_212.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/unknown_192.jpeg
>
>
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