Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:04 AM - Need to add backup battery (Thomas R. Rogan)
2. 04:30 PM - Re: Need to add backup battery (Peter W Johnson)
3. 04:48 PM - Re: Need to add backup battery (Larry McFarland)
4. 04:49 PM - Re: Need to add backup battery (Peter W Johnson)
5. 06:06 PM - Re: Need to add backup battery (Mark Hubelbank)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Need to add backup battery |
I need help.
I am a new builder and I just finished building Zenith aircraft=92s zodiac
601 XL-B. The engine I chose was the continental O-200 that was salvaged
from a wind damaged Cessna 150. This engine did not come equipped with a
fuel pump. I thought no problem I would install two electric fuel pumps the
two fuel pumps were on separate circuit breakers. Once again I thought this
is good redundancy. However, I had the alternator circuit breaker pop and I
did not notice it. So at the 13th hour of my phase 1 testing I had the
excitement of an off field landing. It turned out to be a beautiful landing
no damage in fact does far it was my smoothest landing. I got a tow truck
to take me back to the airport.
Someone told me that I could add a second battery that could be kept fully
charged by my alternator. But, could not be drained through normal
operations unless I flipped another switch to energize the electrical
system. A counselor with the EAA advised me to get the book The
AeroElectrics Connections by Bob Nuckolls. I got that book but there is so
many diagrams I=92m not sure the best one to use. I was hoping someone coul
d
tell me which would be the best for me.
Tom Rogan
tomrogan@gmail.com
219-313-3600
Message 2
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| Subject: | Need to add backup battery |
Tom,
I had a similar problem. I use two batteries, one on the firewall and the
other behind the passenger seat. I have one fuel pump (the main) in the
general electrical system and the other (the backup) directly connected to
the second battery. I test the backup fuel pump before anything else is
switched on. I also use it in the normal way on take-off and landing etc.
I also thought of the idea of having a switch or diode to separate the
batteries but eventually decided against it. I needed two batteries to start
the O-200 (can't understand why!!) and they both need to be connected in
parallel to both get a decent charge. Having switches or diodes defeats
those options.
I figured an electrical failure would come from an alternator failure or
battery failure. The risk of both happening at the same time was rare the
risk was good enough for me. If the alternator fails, I can switch
everything off and turn the backup fuel pump on. No electrical instruments
or anything else but at least the engine keeps turning.
Regarding the starting, I had lots of problems in the first few hours of
kick-backs when starting. I felt there was never enough power from the
Odessy battery. I moved it to the firewall so the cable was at its minimum
length with still no joy. I eventually fitted two batteries in parallel. I
also changed my start up procedure.
I now turn on only the master switch, start the engine and when oil pressure
is up I turn on the alt switch. The alternator takes quite a lot of power
when not turning. The kick back problem has not reoccurred and all is now
running well (90 hours).
Hopefully a diagram is attached.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas R.
Rogan
Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012 2:04 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Need to add backup battery
I need help.
I am a new builder and I just finished building Zenith aircraft's zodiac 601
XL-B. The engine I chose was the continental O-200 that was salvaged from a
wind damaged Cessna 150. This engine did not come equipped with a fuel pump.
I thought no problem I would install two electric fuel pumps the two fuel
pumps were on separate circuit breakers. Once again I thought this is good
redundancy. However, I had the alternator circuit breaker pop and I did not
notice it. So at the 13th hour of my phase 1 testing I had the excitement of
an off field landing. It turned out to be a beautiful landing no damage in
fact does far it was my smoothest landing. I got a tow truck to take me back
to the airport.
Someone told me that I could add a second battery that could be kept fully
charged by my alternator. But, could not be drained through normal
operations unless I flipped another switch to energize the electrical
system. A counselor with the EAA advised me to get the book The
AeroElectrics Connections by Bob Nuckolls. I got that book but there is so
many diagrams I'm not sure the best one to use. I was hoping someone could
tell me which would be the best for me.
Tom Rogan
tomrogan@gmail.com
219-313-3600
Message 3
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| Subject: | Need to add backup battery |
Hi Tom,
After thinking about your problem, it seems yes, you can run two electric
fuel pumps on separate circuits, but you don't need two batteries to stay in
the air. The Alternator circuit popped because there was
an overload or shorted condition and you need to find out what that was.
Fuel pumps don't take that much juice, so I doubt they were the reason. You
need to find out what happened. It may be the breaker
for the alternator just wasn't sized right for the job. Do a little
research and get the fuse data for the alternator. I used a 60-amp breaker
for my little 55 amp alternator on a Subaru.
Two batteries are worth having if that's the only juice you have for
ignition and always hot items.
If you have mags as most 0-200s do, you most likely only need one battery.
It's doubtful any one drawing would serve to show the diagram you need, but
the knowledge you need is clearly expressed in proper ideas.
The AeroElectric Connection is a great study piece and it needs to be read
and understood for you to arrive at a decent answer, so take your time and
try to understand what's going on.
Then fix it.
Larry McFarland
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas R.
Rogan
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:04 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Need to add backup battery
I need help.
I am a new builder and I just finished building Zenith aircraft's zodiac 601
XL-B. The engine I chose was the continental O-200 that was salvaged from a
wind damaged Cessna 150. This engine did not come equipped with a fuel pump.
I thought no problem I would install two electric fuel pumps the two fuel
pumps were on separate circuit breakers. Once again I thought this is good
redundancy. However, I had the alternator circuit breaker pop and I did not
notice it. So at the 13th hour of my phase 1 testing I had the excitement of
an off field landing. It turned out to be a beautiful landing no damage in
fact does far it was my smoothest landing. I got a tow truck to take me back
to the airport.
Someone told me that I could add a second battery that could be kept fully
charged by my alternator. But, could not be drained through normal
operations unless I flipped another switch to energize the electrical
system. A counselor with the EAA advised me to get the book The
AeroElectrics Connections by Bob Nuckolls. I got that book but there is so
many diagrams I'm not sure the best one to use. I was hoping someone could
tell me which would be the best for me.
Tom Rogan
tomrogan@gmail.com
219-313-3600
Message 4
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| Subject: | Need to add backup battery |
Tom,
Forgot to add, well done on the landing, concentrates the mind doesn't it!
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas R.
Rogan
Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012 2:04 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Need to add backup battery
I need help.
I am a new builder and I just finished building Zenith aircraft's zodiac 601
XL-B. The engine I chose was the continental O-200 that was salvaged from a
wind damaged Cessna 150. This engine did not come equipped with a fuel pump.
I thought no problem I would install two electric fuel pumps the two fuel
pumps were on separate circuit breakers. Once again I thought this is good
redundancy. However, I had the alternator circuit breaker pop and I did not
notice it. So at the 13th hour of my phase 1 testing I had the excitement of
an off field landing. It turned out to be a beautiful landing no damage in
fact does far it was my smoothest landing. I got a tow truck to take me back
to the airport.
Someone told me that I could add a second battery that could be kept fully
charged by my alternator. But, could not be drained through normal
operations unless I flipped another switch to energize the electrical
system. A counselor with the EAA advised me to get the book The
AeroElectrics Connections by Bob Nuckolls. I got that book but there is so
many diagrams I'm not sure the best one to use. I was hoping someone could
tell me which would be the best for me.
Tom Rogan
tomrogan@gmail.com
219-313-3600
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Need to add backup battery |
Tom,
First, assuming you don't want to consider getting the mechanical
pump designed for this engine, I would keep this very simple. A small
second (5 AH?) battery that was only connected through one switch to the
second pump. Then, again to keep it very simple, I would use a high
current Schottky diode between the aux battery and the main buss. If
desired, one could put a fuse in series with that diode also.
The assumption is that the second pump is normally not used and is
only turned on during take off/landing and engine emergency.
A Schottky diode has a very low voltage drop. It has a slightly
higher reverse current than normal silicon diodes but it is still low
enough for this. For example a part you can get at www.digikey.com
number 497-12421-1-ND is good for 30 amps and has a reverse leak of 165
ua max.
If you want to go this route and it is not clear how to do it, I
can make a drawing.
Mark Hubelbank
Ch601XL-B
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich adj prop
Rotec TBI-40-3
240 Hours airframe
On 07/21/2012 12:03 PM, Thomas R. Rogan wrote:
> I need help.
>
> I am a new builder and I just finished building Zenith aircrafts
> zodiac 601 XL-B. The engine I chose was the continental O-200 that was
> salvaged from a wind damaged Cessna 150. This engine did not come
> equipped with a fuel pump. I thought no problem I would install two
> electric fuel pumps the two fuel pumps were on separate circuit
> breakers. Once again I thought this is good redundancy. However, I had
> the alternator circuit breaker pop and I did not notice it. So at the
> 13th hour of my phase 1 testing I had the excitement of an off field
> landing. It turned out to be a beautiful landing no damage in fact
> does far it was my smoothest landing. I got a tow truck to take me
> back to the airport.
>
> Someone told me that I could add a second battery that could be kept
> fully charged by my alternator. But, could not be drained through
> normal operations unless I flipped another switch to energize the
> electrical system. A counselor with the EAA advised me to get the book
> The AeroElectrics Connections by Bob Nuckolls. I got that book but
> there is so many diagrams Im not sure the best one to use. I was
> hoping someone could tell me which would be the best for me.
>
> Tom Rogan
> tomrogan@gmail.com <mailto:tomrogan@gmail.com>
> 219-313-3600
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