Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:34 AM - Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 06:03 AM - Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B (SIDESLIP)
3. 10:23 AM - Re: Zenith thrown out of plane (SIDESLIP)
4. 10:54 AM - Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B (PatrickW)
5. 11:06 AM - Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B (SIDESLIP)
6. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B (Damien)
7. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B (Bob Haring)
8. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B (Michel Therrien)
9. 03:37 PM - Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B (SIDESLIP)
10. 06:48 PM - Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B (Tim Juhl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B |
Hi Chad,
I had a couple of reactions to your comments on flying the Zodiac XL.
The first is about your problem with pitch sensitivity. I wonder where
your CG is. It sounds like the tiny engine - perhaps combined with a
couple of hefty people in the seats - might have your CG far aft.
Perhaps it is too far aft.
The second reaction is about your time in spam cans. Those part 23
certified planes are all very docile compared to most experimental
planes. Part 23 rules insure this. When learning to fly experimentals
you need to focus on your stick and rudder work more than on spam cans.
It helps to ignore your actual input forces and motions and just use
whatever is needed to get the pitch, roll, and yaw attitude you want.
My Zodiac XL doesn't seem particularly sensitive to me, but I have been
flying light sport planes for a number of years. The last one I had
before the XL was a lot lighter on the controls. It was a Tecnam Echo
Super powered by a 912-ULS. To get a new person flying that plane I
always insisted they hold the stick with 2 fingers. That would help keep
them from over controlling.
I don't think the Zodiac is particularly difficult to fly, but it is not
as docile as any part 23 plane. The biggest problem I have had is a
complete lack of yaw stability. This seems to come from the all flying
rudder design that means there is no vertical stabilizer. There is also
no part of the fuselage that is parallel to the line of flight because
of the diamond shape when viewed from the top. I applied a line of
automotive colored tape to the top of my engine cowling to show me which
way is actually straight ahead. This makes me more comfortable knowing
the plane is actually going straight - even thought the plane doesn't
really care. The only time it really matters is when lining up for
landing where you need to have the plane facing down the runway for a
smooth touchdown. The lack of a vertical stabilizer also means forward
slips have little or no impact on your landing approach angle - unlike
most other planes. You need to get more than 11 degrees off center on
the nose to get any result.
Good luck,
Paul
Camas, WA
Zodiac XL, Jab 3300 - just signed out of phase I flight test.
On 4/2/2013 8:26 PM, SIDESLIP wrote:
>
> Hello all, I'm sure some of you recognize my name, as I've been on this forum
since sept 2012. I recently purchased a very nice 601XL-B. I've flown one of
these right seat with a Jabiru several months ago and was startled at its pitch
sensitivity. It took me about 40 mins before I could hold an altitude that didn't
vary +300', -300'. Being right seat didn't help matters either. Anyways,
the builder is a busy busy man and is quite a ways away, so he won't be able
to offer me instruction on this airplane. I have two EXTREMELY high time flight
instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking
for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft.
Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before, this is what
is making me a tad anxious. Personally I have over 120 hours in Cessna 152,
172, Cherokee 180's and a bunch of ultralights. I've flown 912 Rotaxes in the
past, so I am familiar with the engine, just not in on!
> e of these planes. For the first flight with my instructor, is there anything
specific I need to make him aware of? I've got 2 hours on an XL-B, just with
the Jabiru, and it was right seat. So, I know they're pitch sensitive, but how
are they in the circuit? Any tips that someone could offer would be SUPER greatly
appreciated! I really want to get this plane in the air and work off my
5 hours dual. Then I'll be able to go practice local north until my brain bleeds.
>
> My Plane is a 145 total hour airplane with a 912ULS. The airplane is in good
shape, and all looks good mechanically. I actually think that I could fly it solo
with little effort, but not a smart decision on my part. Dual instruction
for me is better, although even though the instructors are so highly experienced,
I'm still very much anxious.
>
> Ps. Does anyone know of any experienced flight instructors on type in the Oshawa
area?
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> Chad
>
> --------
> C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397711#397711
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_113.jpg
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B |
Hey guys. No, I've never flown my Rotax powered 601, but flew another pilots 601
with the jabiru. I've never flown the US version of ultralights. I'm in Canada,
and all my ultralight experience (20 hours) was in 1232lb gross airframes.
Flown the Tecnam Golf, Merlin GT, Challenger, Flightstars etc. I am about a 120
hour certified GA pilot, and all that time is over the last year and a half.
So, I fly alot.
As for the CG, I think on the friends XLB, we would have been slightly aft based
on my own calculations later on.
I've got both Ultralight (which is your sport pilot licenses) not the spam cans,
and a lot of GA experience. I actually have some PITTS special stick time as
well. Barry, I have seen the video you are referring to. Paul, thanks for the
pointers! But no, never flown the equivalent of the US ultralights. All airplanes
have been over 1000lbs that I've flown.
Thanks Guys!
Chad
Ps, I've never flown MY airplane, only the jabiru powered one a friend owns.
--------
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397728#397728
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith thrown out of plane |
Can you provide pics of tethers and clips?
Thanks!
Chad
[quote="pilotphyl(at)olemac.net"]As an Owner/Builder of of a Zenith 650XL and a
601XL, from experience on
early flights of both airplanes, you cannot count solely on the canopy
locking mechanism to keep the canopy from opening in flight. Luckily,
we were in the airport traffic pattern when the canopy decided to come
unlatched and we were able to land without incident. The lesson learned
was that both of our planes are now equipped with tether straps and an
additional locking clip to prevent the canopy from opening more than
about 1". The tether also provides a means to reach up and close the
canopy without having to loosen your seat belt. My wife is unable to
even reach the canopy once she is belted in her seat. The incident in
TN with the occupant being thrown out of the plane is obviously a result
of poor choices by the student and instructor. It is unfortunate that
this incident will reflect poorly on the Zenith airplanes.
I you are interested in seeing pictures of my tethers and latches for the 601
and/or 650, send me an e-mail.
> [b]
--------
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397754#397754
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| Subject: | Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B |
> I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my
5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of
17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots
have flown an XL before
Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life)
with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very different than relevant
experience in a specific airframe.
Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor
who actually owns an XL.
You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would recommend
Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared me
for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!).
Patrick Hoyt
N63PZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397760#397760
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| Subject: | Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B |
I agree whole heartedly, but there is no one even close to me at all. I've hunted
high and low since September.
Chad
PatrickW wrote:
>
> > I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me
my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of
17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots
have flown an XL before
>
>
> Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life)
with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very different than relevant
experience in a specific airframe.
>
> Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor
who actually owns an XL.
>
> You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would recommend
Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared me
for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!).
>
> Patrick Hoyt
> N63PZ
--------
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397763#397763
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| Subject: | Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B |
Have you contacted the Zenair people up in Midland?
----- Original Message -----
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007@rogers.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 2:05 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
>
> I agree whole heartedly, but there is no one even close to me at all. I've
> hunted high and low since September.
>
> Chad
>
>
> PatrickW wrote:
>>
>> > I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get
>> > me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has
>> > in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although
>> > neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before
>>
>>
>> Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk
>> your life) with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very
>> different than relevant experience in a specific airframe.
>>
>> Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an
>> instructor who actually owns an XL.
>>
>> You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would
>> recommend Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training
>> and prepared me for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!).
>>
>> Patrick Hoyt
>> N63PZ
>
>
> --------
> C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397763#397763
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B |
Chad,
I agree with Patrick.I drove down to Lawrenceburg (from Niagara Falls,NY) a
nd received a checkout from "Buzz" at Buzz Air. Great guy, great experience
! Thoroughly enjoyed it.
Bob Haring N107RW
zman601xl@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 12:55 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
> I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get m
e my
5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess o
f
17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pil
ots
have flown an XL before
Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your
life)
with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very different than rele
vant
experience in a specific airframe.
Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an
instructor who actually owns an XL.
You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would recom
mend
Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared m
e for
my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!).
Patrick Hoyt
N63PZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397760#397760
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B |
Good thread! When I did the private license training on my 601, my instructor
(who was high time on singles ) took a transition training with a friend who built
and flew a 601 HD. After he felt ok to teach me (5 h), we started my training.
Sent from my iPhone
On 2013-04-03, at 14:05, "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> I agree whole heartedly, but there is no one even close to me at all. I've hunted
high and low since September.
>
> Chad
>
>
>
>
>
> PatrickW wrote:
>>
>>> I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me
my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of
17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots
have flown an XL before
>>
>>
>> Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life)
with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very different than relevant
experience in a specific airframe.
>>
>> Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor
who actually owns an XL.
>>
>> You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would recommend
Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared
me for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!).
>>
>> Patrick Hoyt
>> N63PZ
>
>
> --------
> C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397763#397763
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B |
I actually JUST found a guy through Zenair fairly local that can do type training
for me. Stay tuned!
Chad
--------
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397800#397800
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B |
As a CFII myself, I second Patrick's suggestion that time in type (or at least
in similar aircraft) is more important than total hours. I learned a long time
ago not to be awed by the hour's in a guy's logbook. I once had a high time
Navy Top Gun Tomcat pilot almost kill me trying to land a C172.
Let us know how it works out.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397817#397817
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