Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:39 AM - Re: Zenith Banquet (Tim Juhl)
2. 10:58 AM - Re: CO (Tim Juhl)
3. 11:12 AM - CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300 (Tim Juhl)
4. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: CO (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 11:25 AM - Re: CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300 (Paul Mulwitz)
6. 11:31 AM - Re: CO (Tim Juhl)
7. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: CO (Paul Mulwitz)
8. 06:24 PM - Re: CO (Ron Lendon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Banquet |
Joe,
Thanks for all your efforts in putting together the Zenith Banquet. This was the
first time I attended and it was fun to put faces on some of the people I've
met on this discussion group and others.
One suggestion --- for the main program of the evening, rather than hearing just
from folks with commercial interests, it would be great to put something together
showcasing the flying adventures of actual builders. Those of us who are
still building need to see what awaits them when they finish their airplanes
and actually take to the air.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406633#406633
Message 2
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Not to be picky, but CO has no odor. You might still be getting CO in the cockpit
without associated exhaust odor.
Every installation is going to be a little different. The vast majority of CO
will be going out the stacks so I'd be looking for fuselage openings in areas
of low pressure downwind from them. I wouldn't think the small leaks around the
joints of the exhaust system would account for much and in any case, most of
that goes out the bottom of the cowl.
Obvious things like holes in the firewall, leaks around steering rod boots or shutters,
poor seal between the wrap around cowl and the firewall are all possibilities
for some leakage. Others have reported CO coming in thru openings in
the aft fuselage.
Wish I could be more helpful.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406637#406637
Message 3
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| Subject: | CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300 |
I attended a forum at Oshkosh where a fellow discussed his research on cooling
a Jabiru 3300. He had compared the spark plug washer type CHT sensors to ones
directly in the head and showed that they pretty consistently indicated CHT's
about 70 cooler than actual temperatures! If this is the case, Jab operators
could be cooking their engines while thinking that their CHT's were within safe
limits. He ended up designing a cooling baffling system that is nothing like
what comes from the factory and claimed that was the only way he was able to
get the CHT's under control.
I wonder what the rest of you Jabiru 3300 operators have to say about this? I'm
not flying mine yet but will be getting ready to hang it soon.
For a summary on the fellow who made the presentation check out http://www.eaaapps.org/presenterinfo.aspx?id=1973
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406638#406638
Message 4
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I have heard many people suggest the most likely entry point for carbon
monoxide in any plane is the tail cone. Indeed we lost one of our
pilots to what is suspected to be CO poisoning last year. He had a
wheels up landing in his Bonanza and was ferrying it back for repairs
when he suddenly lost control and crashed a half mile from the
destination. The wheels up landing knocked off the tail cone.
On my Zodiac I have two "Eye-ball" vents for outside air mounted on the
instrument panel. I can feel air blowing out the rear area between the
canopy and side of the fuselage in normal flight. I firmly believe this
reduces the chances of getting CO into the cabin because of the positive
pressure.
Paul
Camas, WA
Zodiac XL in phase II
On 8/13/2013 10:57 AM, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> Not to be picky, but CO has no odor. You might still be getting CO in the cockpit
without associated exhaust odor.
>
> Every installation is going to be a little different. The vast majority of CO
will be going out the stacks so I'd be looking for fuselage openings in areas
of low pressure downwind from them. I wouldn't think the small leaks around
the joints of the exhaust system would account for much and in any case, most
of that goes out the bottom of the cowl.
>
> Obvious things like holes in the firewall, leaks around steering rod boots or
shutters, poor seal between the wrap around cowl and the firewall are all possibilities
for some leakage. Others have reported CO coming in thru openings
in the aft fuselage.
>
> Wish I could be more helpful.
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406637#406637
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300 |
Hi Tim,
I believe the Jabiru specifications are based on the spark plug sensors.
My 3300 is running just fine after about 50 hours. It wanted to
overheat at first but I reduced throttle to keep from getting it too
hot. Probably my first 10 or 15 flight hours were dedicated to making
small changes in the cooling air flow and test flying. I have Dynon EMS
with sensors on each cylinder and exhaust to monitor the temps.
One anecdotal experience I had was a big mouth engineer on one of the
Jabiru lists who claimed all Jabirus had evidence of overheating on the
cylinder bottoms. I sent him photographs of mine, and after avoiding
response he admitted my engine looked just fine with no suggestion it
had ever been overheated.
When you let the cylinders get hot (not necessarily overheated, but
warmer than is good) the cylinder head bolts tend to get a bit loose.
You should check them regularly after first running your engine.
Good luck,
Paul
Camas, WA
On 8/13/2013 11:12 AM, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> I attended a forum at Oshkosh where a fellow discussed his research on cooling
a Jabiru 3300. He had compared the spark plug washer type CHT sensors to ones
directly in the head and showed that they pretty consistently indicated CHT's
about 70 cooler than actual temperatures! If this is the case, Jab operators
could be cooking their engines while thinking that their CHT's were within
safe limits. He ended up designing a cooling baffling system that is nothing like
what comes from the factory and claimed that was the only way he was able
to get the CHT's under control.
>
> I wonder what the rest of you Jabiru 3300 operators have to say about this? I'm
not flying mine yet but will be getting ready to hang it soon.
>
> For a summary on the fellow who made the presentation check out http://www.eaaapps.org/presenterinfo.aspx?id=1973
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406638#406638
>
>
Message 6
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Paul,
Since it is impractical to try to seal off all the openings in the tail cone, have
you given any thought to a practical way to pressurize that area? Maybe a
NACA scoop on the side or the like? I know of fellows who have put holes in the
bulkhead behind the baggage shelf but I'm not sure if that would make things
better or worse.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406643#406643
Message 7
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Hi Tim,
I don't think you need to do anything to pressurize the tail cone so
long as you have air pressure entering the cabin as I described. The
FWF kit from Pete has ports on the cowl for this purpose. You just need
to come up with a vent structure for the cabin. I used the 2 inch
eyeball type vents ( from Spruce?), and they work just fine. I just
don't feel comfortable ever closing them all the way. When it is cool
out I prefer to redirect them so the don't blow on me or my passenger
(on the rare occasion I have a passenger).
About the other Jab questions all I can say is for my money Pete is the
man. I would follow his advice.
Paul
On 8/13/2013 11:31 AM, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Since it is impractical to try to seal off all the openings in the tail cone,
have you given any thought to a practical way to pressurize that area? Maybe
a NACA scoop on the side or the like? I know of fellows who have put holes in
the bulkhead behind the baggage shelf but I'm not sure if that would make things
better or worse.
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406643#406643
>
>
Message 8
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I don't have a CO problem but last winter it was getting difficult to stay warm.
That's when I noticed a positive air flow from the rear fuselage. To combat
that I sealed the canopy with Great Stuff foam along the IP and sticky backed
weatherstrip foam along the canopy rails and flashing at the rear of the XL
canopy.
That helped but what really got the air flowing out the rear was using that same
sticky backed weatherstrip around the inspection access panel on the bottom
of the fuselage. Also used aluminum tape over the hinge on that panel.
During the winter the 2" eyeball vents are totally blocked off and that keeps it
toasty in even subzero fahrenheit temps.
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406671#406671
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