---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/13/13: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:39 AM - Re: Zenith Banquet (Tim Juhl) 2. 10:58 AM - Re: CO (Tim Juhl) 3. 11:12 AM - CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300 (Tim Juhl) 4. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: CO (Paul Mulwitz) 5. 11:25 AM - Re: CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300 (Paul Mulwitz) 6. 11:31 AM - Re: CO (Tim Juhl) 7. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: CO (Paul Mulwitz) 8. 06:24 PM - Re: CO (Ron Lendon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith Banquet From: "Tim Juhl" Joe, Thanks for all your efforts in putting together the Zenith Banquet. This was the first time I attended and it was fun to put faces on some of the people I've met on this discussion group and others. One suggestion --- for the main program of the evening, rather than hearing just from folks with commercial interests, it would be great to put something together showcasing the flying adventures of actual builders. Those of us who are still building need to see what awaits them when they finish their airplanes and actually take to the air. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406633#406633 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: CO From: "Tim Juhl" Not to be picky, but CO has no odor. You might still be getting CO in the cockpit without associated exhaust odor. Every installation is going to be a little different. The vast majority of CO will be going out the stacks so I'd be looking for fuselage openings in areas of low pressure downwind from them. I wouldn't think the small leaks around the joints of the exhaust system would account for much and in any case, most of that goes out the bottom of the cowl. Obvious things like holes in the firewall, leaks around steering rod boots or shutters, poor seal between the wrap around cowl and the firewall are all possibilities for some leakage. Others have reported CO coming in thru openings in the aft fuselage. Wish I could be more helpful. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406637#406637 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300 From: "Tim Juhl" I attended a forum at Oshkosh where a fellow discussed his research on cooling a Jabiru 3300. He had compared the spark plug washer type CHT sensors to ones directly in the head and showed that they pretty consistently indicated CHT's about 70 cooler than actual temperatures! If this is the case, Jab operators could be cooking their engines while thinking that their CHT's were within safe limits. He ended up designing a cooling baffling system that is nothing like what comes from the factory and claimed that was the only way he was able to get the CHT's under control. I wonder what the rest of you Jabiru 3300 operators have to say about this? I'm not flying mine yet but will be getting ready to hang it soon. For a summary on the fellow who made the presentation check out http://www.eaaapps.org/presenterinfo.aspx?id=1973 Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406638#406638 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:10 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: CO I have heard many people suggest the most likely entry point for carbon monoxide in any plane is the tail cone. Indeed we lost one of our pilots to what is suspected to be CO poisoning last year. He had a wheels up landing in his Bonanza and was ferrying it back for repairs when he suddenly lost control and crashed a half mile from the destination. The wheels up landing knocked off the tail cone. On my Zodiac I have two "Eye-ball" vents for outside air mounted on the instrument panel. I can feel air blowing out the rear area between the canopy and side of the fuselage in normal flight. I firmly believe this reduces the chances of getting CO into the cabin because of the positive pressure. Paul Camas, WA Zodiac XL in phase II On 8/13/2013 10:57 AM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > Not to be picky, but CO has no odor. You might still be getting CO in the cockpit without associated exhaust odor. > > Every installation is going to be a little different. The vast majority of CO will be going out the stacks so I'd be looking for fuselage openings in areas of low pressure downwind from them. I wouldn't think the small leaks around the joints of the exhaust system would account for much and in any case, most of that goes out the bottom of the cowl. > > Obvious things like holes in the firewall, leaks around steering rod boots or shutters, poor seal between the wrap around cowl and the firewall are all possibilities for some leakage. Others have reported CO coming in thru openings in the aft fuselage. > > Wish I could be more helpful. > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406637#406637 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:42 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300 Hi Tim, I believe the Jabiru specifications are based on the spark plug sensors. My 3300 is running just fine after about 50 hours. It wanted to overheat at first but I reduced throttle to keep from getting it too hot. Probably my first 10 or 15 flight hours were dedicated to making small changes in the cooling air flow and test flying. I have Dynon EMS with sensors on each cylinder and exhaust to monitor the temps. One anecdotal experience I had was a big mouth engineer on one of the Jabiru lists who claimed all Jabirus had evidence of overheating on the cylinder bottoms. I sent him photographs of mine, and after avoiding response he admitted my engine looked just fine with no suggestion it had ever been overheated. When you let the cylinders get hot (not necessarily overheated, but warmer than is good) the cylinder head bolts tend to get a bit loose. You should check them regularly after first running your engine. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA On 8/13/2013 11:12 AM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > I attended a forum at Oshkosh where a fellow discussed his research on cooling a Jabiru 3300. He had compared the spark plug washer type CHT sensors to ones directly in the head and showed that they pretty consistently indicated CHT's about 70 cooler than actual temperatures! If this is the case, Jab operators could be cooking their engines while thinking that their CHT's were within safe limits. He ended up designing a cooling baffling system that is nothing like what comes from the factory and claimed that was the only way he was able to get the CHT's under control. > > I wonder what the rest of you Jabiru 3300 operators have to say about this? I'm not flying mine yet but will be getting ready to hang it soon. > > For a summary on the fellow who made the presentation check out http://www.eaaapps.org/presenterinfo.aspx?id=1973 > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406638#406638 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:15 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: CO From: "Tim Juhl" Paul, Since it is impractical to try to seal off all the openings in the tail cone, have you given any thought to a practical way to pressurize that area? Maybe a NACA scoop on the side or the like? I know of fellows who have put holes in the bulkhead behind the baggage shelf but I'm not sure if that would make things better or worse. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406643#406643 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:35 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: CO Hi Tim, I don't think you need to do anything to pressurize the tail cone so long as you have air pressure entering the cabin as I described. The FWF kit from Pete has ports on the cowl for this purpose. You just need to come up with a vent structure for the cabin. I used the 2 inch eyeball type vents ( from Spruce?), and they work just fine. I just don't feel comfortable ever closing them all the way. When it is cool out I prefer to redirect them so the don't blow on me or my passenger (on the rare occasion I have a passenger). About the other Jab questions all I can say is for my money Pete is the man. I would follow his advice. Paul On 8/13/2013 11:31 AM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > Paul, > Since it is impractical to try to seal off all the openings in the tail cone, have you given any thought to a practical way to pressurize that area? Maybe a NACA scoop on the side or the like? I know of fellows who have put holes in the bulkhead behind the baggage shelf but I'm not sure if that would make things better or worse. > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406643#406643 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: CO From: "Ron Lendon" I don't have a CO problem but last winter it was getting difficult to stay warm. That's when I noticed a positive air flow from the rear fuselage. To combat that I sealed the canopy with Great Stuff foam along the IP and sticky backed weatherstrip foam along the canopy rails and flashing at the rear of the XL canopy. That helped but what really got the air flowing out the rear was using that same sticky backed weatherstrip around the inspection access panel on the bottom of the fuselage. Also used aluminum tape over the hinge on that panel. During the winter the 2" eyeball vents are totally blocked off and that keeps it toasty in even subzero fahrenheit temps. -------- Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing CH 601 XLB N601LT - Flying http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406671#406671 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.