Zenith640-List Digest Archive

Tue 07/29/08


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:41 AM - Re: Riveting the stab (mark)
     2. 04:08 AM - Re: 640 Builders Check-In (steveadams)
     3. 05:03 AM - Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website? (haven)
     4. 05:49 AM - Re: Riveting the stab (C Smith)
     5. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: 640 Builders Check-In (C Smith)
     6. 07:42 AM - Re: Riveting the stab (C Smith)
     7. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: 640 Builders Check-In (C Smith)
     8. 12:04 PM - Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website? (Scott Stewart)
     9. 12:51 PM - Re: Riveting the stab (steveadams)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:41:22 AM PST US
    From: mark <stephen363@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Riveting the stab
    So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at the plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option to use more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to get an impact rivet gun as well? Thanks, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: pilot4pay <pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net> >Sent: Jul 28, 2008 8:14 PM >To: zenith640-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith640-List: Riveting the stab > > >I shot 8 AD5 rivets on one of the hinges today. Since I have no basement or garage, I'm building in my hangar. >Anyway if you drill the hinges and brackets to the drawing, you will have difficulty setting the rivets over the doublers. New builders take note, subtract a couple mm from the outboard locations. I had to cut away the nose piece of one of my riveters to shoot the A5s, and sand off some from the side of the solid rivet set to get in next to the doublers. Also had to drill out one particular rivet 3 times before I got it to set properly. >Being a novice rivet setter, I decided to let it go for tomorrow to finish the other hinge bracket. >Tip, wrap your bucking bar in leather if it has a rough cast finish or it will make you some rework on your brackets surface finish. >To learn solid riveting, I made up some simu-spars from scrap aluminum. I built a total of 6, with the last 2 matching the spar stack ups, to check how the rivet lengths worked out. Oh, foo'd up the original brackest so had to make my own in 1/8 angles. > >-------- >Craig Smith >CH640 builder >SN: 0078 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195447#195447 > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:08:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
    From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
    steveadams wrote: > > pilot4pay wrote: > > My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that the seat mod is in there too. > > Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check for the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated. > > [b] > > > I'll have a look at my drawings tonight and check the revision date and some measurements. I looked at the drawings, F-40 and F-41 have most of the rear seat parts, and were revised in 01/04. The distance between the spar and the front rear seat support was moved from 350 mm to 450 mm. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195509#195509


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:03:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website?
    From: "haven" <haven1950@yahoo.com>
    Mark, Thanks for your service... and welcome to the boards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195516#195516


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:49:23 AM PST US
    From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Riveting the stab
    The AD5-6 rivets come with the tail kit and are for the stabilator hinge brackets. They give you an option to use a combination of AN-3 bolts over the doublers with the A5 rivets in the middle. I used -6 in the middle, and -7s over the doublers. I bought a cheapy rivet gun set from eBay for $30 something. It is of marginal utility, but there are only 16 solid rivets in the stab, so felt that dropping $200 on a nice set not worth the trouble. Bucking bar I think came from Aircraft Spruce, and was about $12. I would not recommend trying to use an air hammer as a substitute. It would be great if you could borrow a nice one from someone for a few days, practice up then shoot your hinge brackets. I need to review the IPL to see where else they are used. Heck, you can use mine when you get to that point. I can post it to you, when you're done send it back. Might even have some extra rivets. If you haven't done so already, download and print the IPLs off of the 640 builder site. I like to frequently review what comes next, and try to predict what materials/tools I'll need. You will find that a good quality 90 degree drill with a 1/4x2" bit (I need to double check that bit length, I'm not in the shop) helps with match drilling the horn brackets, it's a pretty close quarters operation. I special ordered mine from Aircraft Tool Supply in Michigan. Watch eBay for some good used tool values. I got both my 90 and 45 degree drills there for less than 1/2 of new prices. Got an assortment of drill bits too, real cheap, but they are mostly the stubby ones, and won't reach through the balance weight and brackets. Big project like this, good tools help. Oh, and thanks for your service, that's a tough place. C. Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: Riveting the stab So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at the plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option to use more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to get an impact rivet gun as well? Thanks, Mark


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:50:53 AM PST US
    From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
    THANKS! I'll check it out. Do not archive C. Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steveadams Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:08 AM Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: 640 Builders Check-In --> <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com> steveadams wrote: > > pilot4pay wrote: > > My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that the seat mod is in there too. > > Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check for the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated. > > [b] > > > I'll have a look at my drawings tonight and check the revision date and some measurements. I looked at the drawings, F-40 and F-41 have most of the rear seat parts, and were revised in 01/04. The distance between the spar and the front rear seat support was moved from 350 mm to 450 mm. Steve


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:42:26 AM PST US
    From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Riveting the stab
    Mark, I went through most of the IPLs and there are solid rivets (you usually have the bolt option) used in many places. Perhaps a good rivet gun is not such a bad idea. Solid rivets in stab, aileron bell crank, Fuse stage 2, rear fuse floor sub, and possibly front torque tube, but the language there is kinda muddy. Maybe a few more, I did not go through all of the IPLs (6 left). C. Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: Riveting the stab So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at the plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option to use more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to get an impact rivet gun as well? Thanks, Mark


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:52:22 AM PST US
    From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
    Steve, I checked my dwgs. F-40 rev.12, 11/04 F-41, rev.02, 09/05. distance from spar to rear seat is correct. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steveadams Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:08 AM Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: 640 Builders Check-In --> <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com> steveadams wrote: > > pilot4pay wrote: > > My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that the seat mod is in there too. > > Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check for the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated. > > [b] > > > I'll have a look at my drawings tonight and check the revision date and some measurements. I looked at the drawings, F-40 and F-41 have most of the rear seat parts, and were revised in 01/04. The distance between the spar and the front rear seat support was moved from 350 mm to 450 mm. Steve


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:04:08 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website?
    From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart@agilent.com>
    Hi Mark and All, I am also somewhat new to the CH640. I bought my plans back in January (s/n 0092) and chose to build the complete aircraft from the plans. I now have a lot of the parts fabricated, and my rudder and stabilator are nearly complete. I found a few places in the plans where the dimensions are confusing or are inaccurate. Tim Ward acknowledged the problems and said they would incorporate the feedback into their next plan revision, but they would not supply a list of all known problems with the plans. Does anyone know of a web site which has a full list of plans errata? -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195596#195596


    Message 9


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    Time: 12:51:00 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Riveting the stab
    From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
    >From what I can remember, solid rivets are used on the stab hinge brackets, engine mount brackets, main gear attach brackets, and on a channel reinforcing the wing rear spar attach bracket on the fuselage. I didn't build my aileron bell crank and don't remember what is there. So there aren't many, but they are in critical areas. In addition, while strength wise substituting a bolt would be fine, in some of these areas a bolt is not practical or will just not fit. If you are like me (no riveting experience), you will pound a lot more rivets practicing and getting proficient than you will pound on the airplane. Because they are generally in critical areas, I would recommend either buying a rivet gun and bucking bar (kind of a waste for so few rivets), or finding a set someone will let you borrow. You want those rivets to be as close to perfect as you can get, and not having the right tool will make it that much more difficult. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195602#195602




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