Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:41 AM - Re: Riveting the stab (mark)
2. 04:08 AM - Re: 640 Builders Check-In (steveadams)
3. 05:03 AM - Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website? (haven)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: Riveting the stab (C Smith)
5. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: 640 Builders Check-In (C Smith)
6. 07:42 AM - Re: Riveting the stab (C Smith)
7. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: 640 Builders Check-In (C Smith)
8. 12:04 PM - Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website? (Scott Stewart)
9. 12:51 PM - Re: Riveting the stab (steveadams)
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Subject: | Re: Riveting the stab |
So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at the
plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option to use
more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to get an
impact rivet gun as well?
Thanks,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
>From: pilot4pay <pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Jul 28, 2008 8:14 PM
>To: zenith640-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith640-List: Riveting the stab
>
>
>I shot 8 AD5 rivets on one of the hinges today. Since I have no basement or garage,
I'm building in my hangar.
>Anyway if you drill the hinges and brackets to the drawing, you will have difficulty
setting the rivets over the doublers. New builders take note, subtract
a couple mm from the outboard locations. I had to cut away the nose piece of one
of my riveters to shoot the A5s, and sand off some from the side of the solid
rivet set to get in next to the doublers. Also had to drill out one particular
rivet 3 times before I got it to set properly.
>Being a novice rivet setter, I decided to let it go for tomorrow to finish the
other hinge bracket.
>Tip, wrap your bucking bar in leather if it has a rough cast finish or it will
make you some rework on your brackets surface finish.
>To learn solid riveting, I made up some simu-spars from scrap aluminum. I built
a total of 6, with the last 2 matching the spar stack ups, to check how the
rivet lengths worked out. Oh, foo'd up the original brackest so had to make my
own in 1/8 angles.
>
>--------
>Craig Smith
>CH640 builder
>SN: 0078
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195447#195447
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: 640 Builders Check-In |
steveadams wrote:
>
> pilot4pay wrote:
> > My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that the
seat mod is in there too.
> > Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check for
the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated.
> > [b]
>
>
> I'll have a look at my drawings tonight and check the revision date and some
measurements.
I looked at the drawings, F-40 and F-41 have most of the rear seat parts, and were
revised in 01/04. The distance between the spar and the front rear seat support
was moved from 350 mm to 450 mm.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195509#195509
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Subject: | Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website? |
Mark,
Thanks for your service... and welcome to the boards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195516#195516
Message 4
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Subject: | Riveting the stab |
The AD5-6 rivets come with the tail kit and are for the stabilator hinge
brackets. They give you an option to use a combination of AN-3 bolts over
the doublers with the A5 rivets in the middle. I used -6 in the middle, and
-7s over the doublers.
I bought a cheapy rivet gun set from eBay for $30 something. It is of
marginal utility, but there are only 16 solid rivets in the stab, so felt
that dropping $200 on a nice set not worth the trouble. Bucking bar I think
came from Aircraft Spruce, and was about $12.
I would not recommend trying to use an air hammer as a substitute. It would
be great if you could borrow a nice one from someone for a few days,
practice up then shoot your hinge brackets. I need to review the IPL to see
where else they are used.
Heck, you can use mine when you get to that point. I can post it to you,
when you're done send it back. Might even have some extra rivets.
If you haven't done so already, download and print the IPLs off of the 640
builder site. I like to frequently review what comes next, and try to
predict what materials/tools I'll need. You will find that a good quality 90
degree drill with a 1/4x2" bit (I need to double check that bit length, I'm
not in the shop) helps with match drilling the horn brackets, it's a pretty
close quarters operation. I special ordered mine from Aircraft Tool Supply
in Michigan.
Watch eBay for some good used tool values. I got both my 90 and 45 degree
drills there for less than 1/2 of new prices. Got an assortment of drill
bits too, real cheap, but they are mostly the stubby ones, and won't reach
through the balance weight and brackets. Big project like this, good tools
help.
Oh, and thanks for your service, that's a tough place.
C. Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: Riveting the stab
So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at
the plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option
to use more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to
get an impact rivet gun as well?
Thanks,
Mark
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: 640 Builders Check-In |
THANKS! I'll check it out.
Do not archive
C. Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steveadams
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:08 AM
Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
--> <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
steveadams wrote:
>
> pilot4pay wrote:
> > My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that
the seat mod is in there too.
> > Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check
for the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated.
> > [b]
>
>
> I'll have a look at my drawings tonight and check the revision date and
some measurements.
I looked at the drawings, F-40 and F-41 have most of the rear seat parts,
and were revised in 01/04. The distance between the spar and the front rear
seat support was moved from 350 mm to 450 mm.
Steve
Message 6
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Subject: | Riveting the stab |
Mark, I went through most of the IPLs and there are solid rivets (you
usually have the bolt option) used in many places. Perhaps a good rivet gun
is not such a bad idea.
Solid rivets in stab, aileron bell crank, Fuse stage 2, rear fuse floor sub,
and possibly front torque tube, but the language there is kinda muddy. Maybe
a few more, I did not go through all of the IPLs (6 left).
C. Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: Riveting the stab
So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at
the plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option
to use more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to
get an impact rivet gun as well?
Thanks,
Mark
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: 640 Builders Check-In |
Steve, I checked my dwgs. F-40 rev.12, 11/04
F-41, rev.02, 09/05. distance from spar to rear seat is correct.
Thanks again.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steveadams
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:08 AM
Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
--> <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
steveadams wrote:
>
> pilot4pay wrote:
> > My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that
the seat mod is in there too.
> > Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check
for the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated.
> > [b]
>
>
> I'll have a look at my drawings tonight and check the revision date and
some measurements.
I looked at the drawings, F-40 and F-41 have most of the rear seat parts,
and were revised in 01/04. The distance between the spar and the front rear
seat support was moved from 350 mm to 450 mm.
Steve
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website? |
Hi Mark and All,
I am also somewhat new to the CH640. I bought my plans back in January (s/n 0092)
and chose to build the complete aircraft from the plans. I now have a lot
of the parts fabricated, and my rudder and stabilator are nearly complete.
I found a few places in the plans where the dimensions are confusing or are inaccurate.
Tim Ward acknowledged the problems and said they would incorporate the
feedback into their next plan revision, but they would not supply a list of
all known problems with the plans. Does anyone know of a web site which has a
full list of plans errata?
--------
Scott Stewart
s/n: 0092
Building from plans
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195596#195596
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Riveting the stab |
>From what I can remember, solid rivets are used on the stab hinge brackets, engine
mount brackets, main gear attach brackets, and on a channel reinforcing the
wing rear spar attach bracket on the fuselage. I didn't build my aileron bell
crank and don't remember what is there. So there aren't many, but they are
in critical areas. In addition, while strength wise substituting a bolt would
be fine, in some of these areas a bolt is not practical or will just not fit.
If you are like me (no riveting experience), you will pound a lot more rivets
practicing and getting proficient than you will pound on the airplane. Because
they are generally in critical areas, I would recommend either buying a rivet
gun and bucking bar (kind of a waste for so few rivets), or finding a set someone
will let you borrow. You want those rivets to be as close to perfect as you
can get, and not having the right tool will make it that much more difficult.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195602#195602
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