Zenith650-List Digest Archive

Fri 07/10/09


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:20 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (pequeajim)
     2. 04:22 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (pequeajim)
     3. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Typical Cruise (Brian R. Wood)
     4. 05:28 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (pequeajim)
     5. 05:33 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (PatrickW)
     6. 05:46 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (pequeajim)
     7. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: Typical Cruise (Jim Belcher)
     8. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: Typical Cruise (Jim Belcher)
     9. 10:10 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (mcjon77)
    10. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: Typical Cruise (Doug - SportAviation)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:20:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    From: "pequeajim" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    lwinger wrote: > Yes, but I'm finding that most posts don't get any response. > > [b] Is it because there are not that many 650 builders on here, not interested, just not that many 650 builders as a whole? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252415#252415


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:22:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    From: "pequeajim" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    chuck960 wrote: > I'll let you know when I get mine in the air but why would it be any different than a 601? I wouldn't know, is there any difference from a 601 as far as cruise with a 3300? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252416#252416


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:04:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    From: "Brian R. Wood" <brianrobertwood@gmail.com>
    Well, I am here lurking, but all I know is what I read. I bought plans, but am "on hold", first for lack of funds, and second, I am waiting for more information concerning the break-ups. The one here in Brazil shook me up a little, the builder was very active on a list here in Portuguese, and he was very careful, very professional. It just doesn't make sense. I feel like some important information is missing. The Brazilian FAA does not investigate experimental accidents, so more potential information is lost. I like the design, I trust the Heintz family, I like the plane, I have seen the results of the flutter tests in Germany. Everything looks good. So why the break-ups? Brian Em Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:52:52 -0300, pequeajim <pequeajim@gmail.com> escreveu: > > Is there anyone on this list? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252405#252405 > > -- Brian R. Wood JH Manutencao Anapolis. Goias, Brazil


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:28:43 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    From: "pequeajim" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    So is the cruise basically the same as the 601XL? I am looking for a LS compliant aircraft that I can replace my Lightning with and build over time at home. I would like it to have the capabilities to be sporty, and cruise at 150+ at altitude, yet more roomy than say, a Sonex. My Lightning is a great aircraft, but I can't afford to keep it right now with my "lack of" work going on. I don't expect the 650 to have to performance of the Lightning, but somewhat close would be good. This is what I am trying to establish. I also want to try building a metal aircraft this time around. Jim! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252421#252421


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:33:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
    I lurk here too. Airframe mostly completed for my XL with a lot of 650 stuff on it. Zenith doesn't advertise their low wing aircraft line in the print magazines anymore. So I wonder if they are moving away from that market? If so, then there may never be very many 650 builders. How many of the four seat 640's were built after they stopped advertising them...? Would be a good question to ask them at Oshkosh... - Pat -------- Patrick XL/650/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252422#252422


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:46:05 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    From: "pequeajim" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    PatrickW wrote: > How many of the four seat 640's were built after they stopped advertising them...? > > Would be a good question to ask them at Oshkosh... > > - Pat I will, thanks... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252423#252423


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:58:32 AM PST US
    From: Jim Belcher <z601@anemicaardvark.com>
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    On Friday 10 July 2009 07:28, pequeajim wrote: > > So is the cruise basically the same as the 601XL? I am looking for a LS > compliant aircraft that I can replace my Lightning with and build over time > at home. I would like it to have the capabilities to be sporty, and cruise > at 150+ at altitude, yet more roomy than say, a Sonex. It's designed as an LSA. Therefore, I would expect the maximum speed (as designed) to be that of an LSA. You might be able to tweak more speed, but given the open questions about the XL, and the fact they share a lot of components, how wise that may be is open to question. ============================================= You can check on my aircraft construction progress at: http://www.mykitlog.com/santaigo ================================================ Jim B. Belcher BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science A&P/IA Instrument Rated Pilot General Radio Telephone Certificate Retired Aerospace Technical Manager ================================================


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:10:18 AM PST US
    From: Jim Belcher <z601@anemicaardvark.com>
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    On Friday 10 July 2009 07:32, PatrickW wrote: > > I lurk here too. Airframe mostly completed for my XL with a lot of 650 > stuff on it. > > Zenith doesn't advertise their low wing aircraft line in the print > magazines anymore. So I wonder if they are moving away from that market? There's a recession going on. Some of the magazines have reduced the number of pages because advertisers as a whole have had to cut back on advertising. I believe I remember the publisher saying GA News had reduced the page count by 16. He said lack of advertising was the sole reason. Look at the thickness of Trade-a-Plane a couple of years ago vs now, as an example. I suspect Zenith was already feeling the effects of the recession. With all the negative publicity from the XL, I'd bet their sales are down, which probably means their advertising budget is down. Hopefully, this is not an endless spiral downward. I do believe I have seen them advertising in Kit Planes every month, though. That may be a mix of ads for the 750 and the 650. -- ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager ============================================


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:10:31 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    From: "mcjon77" <mcjon77@yahoo.com>
    pequeajim wrote: > So is the cruise basically the same as the 601XL? I am looking for a LS compliant aircraft that I can replace my Lightning with and build over time at home. I would like it to have the capabilities to be sporty, and cruise at 150+ at altitude, yet more roomy than say, a Sonex. > 150mph+ in a Zodiac? Nope. The 650 is essentially a 601XL with a few redesigns. The canopy is larger, allowing for a taller pilot. Also, the landing gear was strengthened, an the rudder was slicked back more. As far as cruise speeds with the 3300, most of the numbers I have heard, even at altitude are in the low (to mid) 130's. This makes sense, because the 100hp 601XLs (continental and corvair) are in the mid to high 120's. This is at about 8k msl. Also, keep in mind that the 650 has the same wing as the 601XL, so IF there is a problem with the 601XL wing, then it most likely exists in the 650 as well. This is what one of the above posters was referring to when he mentioned waiting for more information about the in-flight breakups. For the kind of speed you are talking about. I know of only 3 aircraft that can do that with a Jabiru 3300, and still qualify as LSAs. The Lighning, the sonex, and the sonerai. Europa is coming out with an LSA wing for their birds, so they might be an option later. -------- Jon McDonald Building Sonex #1287 Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252447#252447


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:07:41 AM PST US
    From: "Doug - SportAviation" <Doug.Norman@sportaviation.aero>
    Subject: Re: Typical Cruise
    I'm not a 650 owner, but I am a 601 owner. Here's my understanding and my experiences on the characteristics you're looking at. The 650 solves a couple of user gripes - headroom, canopy closure, and stodgy look of the rudder. The angle of incidence of the wing is back to where it was a couple of years ago. It was reduced a few years ago based on reported better performance from builders in Spain. Now it's raised so as to provide a better view in cruise. There are a few other small changes to the wing such as gussets on the inboard side of the ailerons (I had these added when I was up at AMD for my annual - it took a total of 45 min to manufacture and install the pieces). The main gear was changed a couple of years ago. The airplane now sits higher on the gear, and offers less of an angle of attack during the take off run. The airplane must be rotated, it won't fly off on its own. As far as speeds go, I see 105-110 knots TAS at 2450 rpm burning 5.7-6.3 gph with the Continental O-200a. I have a bit more than 340 hours on the airplane, and I keep records of every flight. This is what it gets. On a cool day, one can see higher IAS near sea level (the best I've experienced is 114 IAS during a Florida winter day at 1500 MSL). With respect to LSAs, your speed is limited by the LSA definition. No faster than 120 kts at max continuous power. One of the cub look-alikes now offers a trick engine which can put out 180hp for a short time and this makes it a phenomenal short field performer and initial climb. I've had no trouble with my airplane; none at all. And I use it for both pleasure and business travel. The reduced MTOW is troublesome; but I'm pretty sure that will be returned to the 1320 soon. Its legs are marginal for real cross country with the Continental in my view. I travel often at the airplane's margins (300-400 nm) and the winds decide whether I can make the trip without a stop while maintaining sufficient reserves. The airplane is great to fly. Frankly, I purchased it for its sporty flight characteristics and I have a little fear that the sportiness may be engineered out of it to make it more acceptable to the broader masses. I was b o r e d by the Cessna/piper 4 bangers. It felt like taking the family truckster (nat'l lampoon / chevy chase reference) when you were dreaming of the little sport car. It does require attention to fly when one is first learning the airplane. In fact (true story), there were two CFIs I couldn't clear to fly the airplane (I'm a CFI and I initially used the plane for flight instruction). Both of these CFIs couldn't land the Zodiac. Both were big-iron flyers - high wing loading. This tracks with the latest info from the insurance industry. Whatever you choose to build and/or fly, have fun with it! Doug Norman AMD Zodiac N601DN -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith650-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith650-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mcjon77 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 1:10 PM Subject: Zenith650-List: Re: Typical Cruise pequeajim wrote: > So is the cruise basically the same as the 601XL? I am looking for a LS compliant aircraft that I can replace my Lightning with and build over time at home. I would like it to have the capabilities to be sporty, and cruise at 150+ at altitude, yet more roomy than say, a Sonex. > 150mph+ in a Zodiac? Nope. The 650 is essentially a 601XL with a few redesigns. The canopy is larger, allowing for a taller pilot. Also, the landing gear was strengthened, an the rudder was slicked back more. As far as cruise speeds with the 3300, most of the numbers I have heard, even at altitude are in the low (to mid) 130's. This makes sense, because the 100hp 601XLs (continental and corvair) are in the mid to high 120's. This is at about 8k msl. Also, keep in mind that the 650 has the same wing as the 601XL, so IF there is a problem with the 601XL wing, then it most likely exists in the 650 as well. This is what one of the above posters was referring to when he mentioned waiting for more information about the in-flight breakups. For the kind of speed you are talking about. I know of only 3 aircraft that can do that with a Jabiru 3300, and still qualify as LSAs. The Lighning, the sonex, and the sonerai. Europa is coming out with an LSA wing for their birds, so they might be an option later. -------- Jon McDonald Building Sonex #1287 Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252447#252447




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