Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:20 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (pequeajim)
2. 04:22 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (pequeajim)
3. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Typical Cruise (Brian R. Wood)
4. 05:28 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (pequeajim)
5. 05:33 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (PatrickW)
6. 05:46 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (pequeajim)
7. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: Typical Cruise (Jim Belcher)
8. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: Typical Cruise (Jim Belcher)
9. 10:10 AM - Re: Typical Cruise (mcjon77)
10. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: Typical Cruise (Doug - SportAviation)
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
lwinger wrote:
> Yes, but I'm finding that most posts don't get any response.
>
> [b]
Is it because there are not that many 650 builders on here, not interested, just
not that many 650 builders as a whole?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252415#252415
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
chuck960 wrote:
> I'll let you know when I get mine in the air but why would it be any different
than a 601?
I wouldn't know, is there any difference from a 601 as far as cruise with a 3300?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252416#252416
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
Well, I am here lurking, but all I know is what I read. I bought plans,
but am "on hold", first for lack of funds, and second, I am waiting for
more information concerning the break-ups. The one here in Brazil shook me
up a little, the builder was very active on a list here in Portuguese, and
he was very careful, very professional. It just doesn't make sense. I feel
like some important information is missing. The Brazilian FAA does not
investigate experimental accidents, so more potential information is lost.
I like the design, I trust the Heintz family, I like the plane, I have
seen the results of the flutter tests in Germany. Everything looks good.
So why the break-ups?
Brian
Em Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:52:52 -0300, pequeajim <pequeajim@gmail.com>
escreveu:
>
> Is there anyone on this list?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252405#252405
>
>
--
Brian R. Wood
JH Manutencao
Anapolis. Goias, Brazil
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
So is the cruise basically the same as the 601XL? I am looking for a LS compliant
aircraft that I can replace my Lightning with and build over time at home.
I would like it to have the capabilities to be sporty, and cruise at 150+ at
altitude, yet more roomy than say, a Sonex.
My Lightning is a great aircraft, but I can't afford to keep it right now with
my "lack of" work going on. I don't expect the 650 to have to performance of
the Lightning, but somewhat close would be good. This is what I am trying to
establish.
I also want to try building a metal aircraft this time around.
Jim!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252421#252421
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
I lurk here too. Airframe mostly completed for my XL with a lot of 650 stuff on
it.
Zenith doesn't advertise their low wing aircraft line in the print magazines anymore.
So I wonder if they are moving away from that market? If so, then there
may never be very many 650 builders. How many of the four seat 640's were
built after they stopped advertising them...?
Would be a good question to ask them at Oshkosh...
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252422#252422
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
PatrickW wrote:
> How many of the four seat 640's were built after they stopped advertising them...?
>
> Would be a good question to ask them at Oshkosh...
>
> - Pat
I will, thanks...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252423#252423
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
On Friday 10 July 2009 07:28, pequeajim wrote:
>
> So is the cruise basically the same as the 601XL? I am looking for a LS
> compliant aircraft that I can replace my Lightning with and build over time
> at home. I would like it to have the capabilities to be sporty, and cruise
> at 150+ at altitude, yet more roomy than say, a Sonex.
It's designed as an LSA. Therefore, I would expect the maximum speed (as
designed) to be that of an LSA.
You might be able to tweak more speed, but given the open questions about the
XL, and the fact they share a lot of components, how wise that may be is open
to question.
=============================================
You can check on my aircraft construction
progress at: http://www.mykitlog.com/santaigo
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
================================================
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
On Friday 10 July 2009 07:32, PatrickW wrote:
>
> I lurk here too. Airframe mostly completed for my XL with a lot of 650
> stuff on it.
>
> Zenith doesn't advertise their low wing aircraft line in the print
> magazines anymore. So I wonder if they are moving away from that market?
There's a recession going on. Some of the magazines have reduced the number of
pages because advertisers as a whole have had to cut back on advertising. I
believe I remember the publisher saying GA News had reduced the page count by
16. He said lack of advertising was the sole reason. Look at the thickness of
Trade-a-Plane a couple of years ago vs now, as an example.
I suspect Zenith was already feeling the effects of the recession. With all
the negative publicity from the XL, I'd bet their sales are down, which
probably means their advertising budget is down. Hopefully, this is not an
endless spiral downward.
I do believe I have seen them advertising in Kit Planes every month, though.
That may be a mix of ads for the 750 and the 650.
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
pequeajim wrote:
> So is the cruise basically the same as the 601XL? I am looking for a LS compliant
aircraft that I can replace my Lightning with and build over time at home.
I would like it to have the capabilities to be sporty, and cruise at 150+
at altitude, yet more roomy than say, a Sonex.
>
150mph+ in a Zodiac? Nope. The 650 is essentially a 601XL with a few redesigns.
The canopy is larger, allowing for a taller pilot. Also, the landing gear
was strengthened, an the rudder was slicked back more.
As far as cruise speeds with the 3300, most of the numbers I have heard, even at
altitude are in the low (to mid) 130's. This makes sense, because the 100hp
601XLs (continental and corvair) are in the mid to high 120's. This is at about
8k msl. Also, keep in mind that the 650 has the same wing as the 601XL,
so IF there is a problem with the 601XL wing, then it most likely exists in the
650 as well. This is what one of the above posters was referring to when he
mentioned waiting for more information about the in-flight breakups.
For the kind of speed you are talking about. I know of only 3 aircraft that can
do that with a Jabiru 3300, and still qualify as LSAs. The Lighning, the sonex,
and the sonerai. Europa is coming out with an LSA wing for their birds,
so they might be an option later.
--------
Jon McDonald
Building Sonex #1287
Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252447#252447
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Typical Cruise |
I'm not a 650 owner, but I am a 601 owner. Here's my understanding and my
experiences on the characteristics you're looking at.
The 650 solves a couple of user gripes - headroom, canopy closure, and
stodgy look of the rudder. The angle of incidence of the wing is back to
where it was a couple of years ago. It was reduced a few years ago based on
reported better performance from builders in Spain. Now it's raised so as to
provide a better view in cruise.
There are a few other small changes to the wing such as gussets on the
inboard side of the ailerons (I had these added when I was up at AMD for my
annual - it took a total of 45 min to manufacture and install the pieces).
The main gear was changed a couple of years ago. The airplane now sits
higher on the gear, and offers less of an angle of attack during the take
off run. The airplane must be rotated, it won't fly off on its own.
As far as speeds go, I see 105-110 knots TAS at 2450 rpm burning 5.7-6.3 gph
with the Continental O-200a. I have a bit more than 340 hours on the
airplane, and I keep records of every flight. This is what it gets. On a
cool day, one can see higher IAS near sea level (the best I've experienced
is 114 IAS during a Florida winter day at 1500 MSL).
With respect to LSAs, your speed is limited by the LSA definition. No faster
than 120 kts at max continuous power. One of the cub look-alikes now offers
a trick engine which can put out 180hp for a short time and this makes it a
phenomenal short field performer and initial climb.
I've had no trouble with my airplane; none at all. And I use it for both
pleasure and business travel. The reduced MTOW is troublesome; but I'm
pretty sure that will be returned to the 1320 soon. Its legs are marginal
for real cross country with the Continental in my view. I travel often at
the airplane's margins (300-400 nm) and the winds decide whether I can make
the trip without a stop while maintaining sufficient reserves.
The airplane is great to fly. Frankly, I purchased it for its sporty flight
characteristics and I have a little fear that the sportiness may be
engineered out of it to make it more acceptable to the broader masses. I was
b o r e d by the Cessna/piper 4 bangers. It felt like taking the family
truckster (nat'l lampoon / chevy chase reference) when you were dreaming of
the little sport car. It does require attention to fly when one is first
learning the airplane. In fact (true story), there were two CFIs I couldn't
clear to fly the airplane (I'm a CFI and I initially used the plane for
flight instruction). Both of these CFIs couldn't land the Zodiac. Both were
big-iron flyers - high wing loading. This tracks with the latest info from
the insurance industry.
Whatever you choose to build and/or fly, have fun with it!
Doug Norman
AMD Zodiac N601DN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith650-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith650-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mcjon77
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 1:10 PM
Subject: Zenith650-List: Re: Typical Cruise
pequeajim wrote:
> So is the cruise basically the same as the 601XL? I am looking for a LS
compliant aircraft that I can replace my Lightning with and build over time
at home. I would like it to have the capabilities to be sporty, and cruise
at 150+ at altitude, yet more roomy than say, a Sonex.
>
150mph+ in a Zodiac? Nope. The 650 is essentially a 601XL with a few
redesigns. The canopy is larger, allowing for a taller pilot. Also, the
landing gear was strengthened, an the rudder was slicked back more.
As far as cruise speeds with the 3300, most of the numbers I have heard,
even at altitude are in the low (to mid) 130's. This makes sense, because
the 100hp 601XLs (continental and corvair) are in the mid to high 120's.
This is at about 8k msl. Also, keep in mind that the 650 has the same wing
as the 601XL, so IF there is a problem with the 601XL wing, then it most
likely exists in the 650 as well. This is what one of the above posters was
referring to when he mentioned waiting for more information about the
in-flight breakups.
For the kind of speed you are talking about. I know of only 3 aircraft that
can do that with a Jabiru 3300, and still qualify as LSAs. The Lighning,
the sonex, and the sonerai. Europa is coming out with an LSA wing for their
birds, so they might be an option later.
--------
Jon McDonald
Building Sonex #1287
Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252447#252447
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