---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith650-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/05/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:28 AM - Zodiac 601/650 Flutter Mods from the LAA UK (alsmith) 2. 05:37 AM - Re: Parts that dont fit (alsmith) 3. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Parts that dont fit (Jim Belcher) 4. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: Parts that dont fit (Larry Hursh) 5. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Parts that dont fit (Jim Belcher) 6. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Parts that dont fit (Larry Hursh) 7. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Parts that dont fit (Jim Belcher) 8. 01:04 PM - Re: Parts that dont fit (PatrickW) 9. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: Parts that dont fit. (Gary Gower) 10. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: Parts that dont fit (Jim Belcher) 11. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Parts that dont fit. (Larry Hursh) 12. 08:16 PM - Re: Parts that dont fit (chuck960) 13. 10:17 PM - Re: Parts that dont fit (aussiech650) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:02 AM PST US Subject: Zenith650-List: Zodiac 601/650 Flutter Mods from the LAA UK From: "alsmith" I thought this might be a good link for review by the community. http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/engineering.html Al Smith KEOS Building a 650 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266557#266557 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:10 AM PST US Subject: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit From: "alsmith" We are also building a 650. We had to add a 1/8" Shim to the bottom front of the Center spar to move it 5 degrees. The side skins were also incorrect. The seat and arm rest and the rear spare supports were also bent incorrectly. Zenith will send new parts, I suggest that you get undrilled side skins to insure the alignment and fit is correct. We have also informed Zenith that not having any Builders instructions for the 650 is making it much more challenging a project. To our knowledge there are zero available for the 650 modifications. We have been informed that they are making these a priority to publish. Al Smith KEOS Fuselage 650 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266558#266558 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:47 AM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit On Monday 05 October 2009 07:37, alsmith wrote: > > We are also building a 650. We had to add a 1/8" Shim to the bottom front > of the Center spar to move it 5 degrees. The side skins were also > incorrect. The seat and arm rest and the rear spare supports were also > bent incorrectly. Zenith will send new parts, I suggest that you get > undrilled side skins to insure the alignment and fit is correct. We have > also informed Zenith that not having any Builders instructions for the 650 > is making it much more challenging a project. To our knowledge there are > zero available for the 650 modifications. We have been informed that they > are making these a priority to publish. There are SOME things available, because they sent me 650 wing tips for the 601. when I asked for documentation, I was sent the wingtip drawings for the 650. It sounds as though things may not all that well coordinated. -- ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. ============================================ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:14 AM PST US From: Larry Hursh Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit To all, I've called and talked to Roger D at Zenith in Mexico Missouri about my new style Todd's canopy. I told him trying to use the old instructional information is nothing close to the parts I was looking at. I am deathly afraid to cut my canopy in half without SOME type of correct information as to how to do it. He could see my point. He told me that a DVD was available on www.homebuilthelp.com that shows how to convert an existing 601XL to the new style canopy. I told him I see how it is if that was the "solution" to my problem - In other words, I buy the kit from them but I also have to buy the instructions from someone else??? Again, he could see my point after I explained it to him. He promised he was going to send a DVD to me....you might want to call Zenith as I did. YES, there IS quite a few problems concerning a lack of forthcoming information on the new CH650....and YES, I also had a lot of pre-punched holes that was totally useless to me. I suggested to Roger or Caleb (I can't remember which) that if they can't get the holes in the correct place to NOT put any holes at all in the side skins. He DID offer to send me a new set of side skins. I thanked him for the offer but I was so far along with it at that point, I wasn't going to go through it again. So if you are having issues with things not lining up correctly, you are NOT alone. Hope this helped. Larry Hursh Edwardsburg, Michigan Zenith CH650 - N650LM Reserved 2700cc Corvair Powered Crankshaft already ground .010 - .010 Balanced and nitrited at Moldex I hope to someday be that person my dog thinks I am..... --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Jim Belcher wrote: > From: Jim Belcher > Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit > To: zenith650-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 8:32 AM > --> Zenith650-List message posted > by: Jim Belcher > > On Monday 05 October 2009 07:37, alsmith wrote: > > > > > We are also building a 650. We had to add a 1/8" Shim > to the bottom front > > of the Center spar to move it 5 degrees. The side > skins were also > > incorrect. The seat and arm rest and the rear spare > supports were also > > bent incorrectly. Zenith will send new parts, I > suggest that you get > > undrilled side skins to insure the alignment and fit > is correct. We have > > also informed Zenith that not having any Builders > instructions for the 650 > > is making it much more challenging a project. To our > knowledge there are > > zero available for the 650 modifications. We have been > informed that they > > are making these a priority to publish. > > There are SOME things available, because they sent me 650 > wing tips for the > 601. when I asked for documentation, I was sent the wingtip > drawings for the > 650. It sounds as though things may not all that well > coordinated. > -- > ============================================ > Do > not archive. > ============================================ > Jim > B Belcher > BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science > > A&P/IA > Retired aerospace technical > manager > > Mathematics and alcohol do not > mix. > Do not drink and > derive. > ============================================ > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:47 AM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit On Monday 05 October 2009 09:07, Larry Hursh wrote: > > To all, I get the uncomfortable feeling that the bad publicity some of the XLs generated has caused Zenith to put the XL/650 project on a back burner. I wonder how many of these they have sold in, say, the last year? There haven't been any new ads for the 650 in Kitplanes for several months. Noi ads usually mean no new sales. It would be a bad thing if the model were shelved. I'm not convinced, on the strength of the information presented to date, that there's really anything wrong with the basic design. > I've called and talked to Roger D at Zenith in Mexico Missouri about my new > style Todd's canopy. I told him trying to use the old instructional > information is nothing close to the parts I was looking at. I am deathly > afraid to cut my canopy in half without SOME type of correct information as > to how to do it. He could see my point. He told me that a DVD was > available on www.homebuilthelp.com that shows how to convert an existing > 601XL to the new style canopy. I told him I see how it is if that was the > "solution" to my problem - In other words, I buy the kit from them but I > also have to buy the instructions from someone else??? Again, he could see > my point after I explained it to him. He promised he was going to send a > DVD to me....you might want to call Zenith as I did. > > YES, there IS quite a few problems concerning a lack of forthcoming > information on the new CH650....and YES, I also had a lot of pre-punched > holes that was totally useless to me. I suggested to Roger or Caleb (I > can't remember which) that if they can't get the holes in the correct place > to NOT put any holes at all in the side skins. He DID offer to send me a > new set of side skins. I thanked him for the offer but I was so far along > with it at that point, I wasn't going to go through it again. So if you > are having issues with things not lining up correctly, you are NOT alone. ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. ============================================ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:57 AM PST US From: Larry Hursh Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit Jim, I never said there was any major problems with the "basic design" of the aircraft. All I was reiterating was the lack of USEFUL information coming out of Zenith - nothing more - nothing less. If I didn't have confidence in the aircraft, I would be the FIRST to put it up for sale or scrap it out. I think in Zenith's case, there was so many bad things happening to the older 601's (mostly all bad word of mouth publicity) they was forced into coming out with the newer 650. The airframe is basically exactly the same, with a few improvements. I just wished Zenith would have thought through all the ramifications going with this new conversion as soon as they did, NOT having all the information needed to available to the builders. I call this "Ready! Fire! Aim!".......or P.P.P. I do believe you WILL eventually see ads appearing in flying magazines again (after they get all their ducks in a row), but for now, remember they are up to their A$$ in alligators, seemingly forgetting that their original main objective was to the "drain the swamp". Larry --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Jim Belcher wrote: > From: Jim Belcher > Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit > To: zenith650-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 11:28 AM > --> Zenith650-List message posted > by: Jim Belcher > > On Monday 05 October 2009 09:07, Larry Hursh wrote: > > > > > To all, > I get the uncomfortable feeling that the bad publicity some > of the XLs > generated has caused Zenith to put the XL/650 project on a > back burner. I > wonder how many of these they have sold in, say, the last > year? > > There haven't been any new ads for the 650 in Kitplanes for > several months. > Noi ads usually mean no new sales. It would be a bad thing > if the model were > shelved. I'm not convinced, on the strength of the > information presented to > date, that there's really anything wrong with the basic > design. > > > I've called and talked to Roger D at Zenith in Mexico > Missouri about my new > > style Todd's canopy. I told him trying to use > the old instructional > > information is nothing close to the parts I was > looking at. I am deathly > > afraid to cut my canopy in half without SOME type of > correct information as > > to how to do it. He could see my point. He > told me that a DVD was > > available on www.homebuilthelp.com that shows how to > convert an existing > > 601XL to the new style canopy. I told him I see > how it is if that was the > > "solution" to my problem - In other words, I buy the > kit from them but I > > also have to buy the instructions from someone > else??? Again, he could see > > my point after I explained it to him. He > promised he was going to send a > > DVD to me....you might want to call Zenith as I did. > > > > YES, there IS quite a few problems concerning a lack > of forthcoming > > information on the new CH650....and YES, I also had a > lot of pre-punched > > holes that was totally useless to me. I > suggested to Roger or Caleb (I > > can't remember which) that if they can't get the holes > in the correct place > > to NOT put any holes at all in the side skins. > He DID offer to send me a > > new set of side skins. I thanked him for the > offer but I was so far along > > with it at that point, I wasn't going to go through it > again. So if you > > are having issues with things not lining up correctly, > you are NOT alone. > > ============================================ > Do > not archive. > ============================================ > Jim > B Belcher > BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science > > A&P/IA > Retired aerospace technical > manager > > Mathematics and alcohol do not > mix. > Do not drink and > derive. > ============================================ > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:54 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit On Monday 05 October 2009 12:00, Larry Hursh wrote: > > Jim, > > I never said there was any major problems with the "basic design" of the > aircraft. All I was reiterating was the lack of USEFUL information coming > out of Zenith - nothing more - nothing less. If I didn't have confidence > in the aircraft, I would be the FIRST to put it up for sale or scrap it > out. I think in Zenith's case, there was so many bad things happening to > the older 601's (mostly all bad word of mouth publicity) they was forced > into coming out with the newer 650. The airframe is basically exactly the > same, with a few improvements. I just wished Zenith would have thought > through all the ramifications going with this new conversion as soon as > they did, NOT having all the information needed to available to the > builders. I call this "Ready! Fire! Aim!".......or P.P.P. Sorry. I did not mean to imply you had suggested this. I do think that there may be the impression that there is something wrong with the design amongst those less familiar with it. I'm building an XL, and I haven't let the various rumors slow me down. Something I wish they would do is completely revise the documentation for the 650. It would be nice to see parts built on one drawing, made into subassemblies on another drawing, and so on. In other words, a drawing tree. Separate parts numbers for left and right hand parts would also be a good idea, and perhaps a cross reference by part number that shows every drawing where that part number is referenced. I feel I spend entirely too much time searching between several pages to find rivet pitch, etc etc. -- ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. ============================================ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:58 PM PST US Subject: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit From: "PatrickW" I noticed during the course of building my XL that some of the components that came with my kit were newer than what was reflected in the drawings. For example, the nose gear is different, as are the upper engine mount brackets. And certainly the new canopy as well. Looking back, we can now recognize that these were components to what we now call the "650". I think the XL was just evolving at the time, and Zenith was naturally shipping the latest and greatest stuff to their customers (which is appreciated). I think the idea to release a "650" was simply a reaction to the negative press about the XL, which gave Zenith the opportunity to pull the XL off the market and come out with something "new and improved". Very little difference, and most of the 601 documentation still holds for the 650 - the canopy being the notable exception. I installed my canopy after watching the HomebuiltHelp DVD, although I did some things differently. It was a bear, and knowing what I know now I think I would have done the 650 style latch and the one-piece XL canopy if I were to do it over again now. Water under the bridge at this point. I am a bit disturbed at the absence of a Zenith 650 demo plane at the fly-ins, and the lack of advertising of the 650. All in all, I'm happy with how my project has gone, and with Zenith. The hard part for me is listening to all the other pilots and "experts" out there who know all about the Zodiac and how "the wings are going to fall off". It just gets old hearing it all the time. - Pat -------- Patrick XL/650/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266662#266662 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:21 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit. Hello Larry, - I am a user-- of the Homebuilthelp- DVD's (while-building my 601 XL ) - There are two very important points I want to comment and advise. - 1.- The DVD instruction videos from Jon, HomebuiltHelp (HBH)- are Excelen t, they are worth more that-we pay for them!--Just by the-time-sa ved doing the job the first time correctly.-- -Jon has lots of experi ence building ZAC Airplanes and with his camera.-- BUT- He is NOT and employee of Zenith Aircraft Co.--So the HBH DVD's are-not included -with the parts and-kits sent by ZAC.-- My Advice to all Invest in the Videos you will not regret it. - 2.- ZAC has their construction manuals. (photos and insttructions).- The ZAC manual is also of great help, I used-it on my first two-701's - we built here, -BUT the plans Should-always the Number ONE instruct ions to follow- (same goes for the HMH DVD's).-- - Another wonderfull help in building, is all this (free) Matronics Zentih Li sts and all the great people here (well maybe 99% of us :-). - Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. 701 912S-264 hrs 601 XL- Jab 3300- building Next proyect:- 650?-- 750? - - - - - --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Larry Hursh wrote: From: Larry Hursh Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit To all, I've called and talked to Roger D at Zenith in Mexico Missouri about my new style Todd's canopy.- I told him trying to use the old instructional inf ormation is nothing close to the parts I was looking at.- I am deathly af raid to cut my canopy in half without SOME type of correct information as t o how to do it.- He could see my point.- He told me that a DVD was avai lable on www.homebuilthelp.com that shows how to convert an existing 601XL to the new style canopy.- I told him I see how it is if that was the "sol ution" to my problem - In other words, I buy the kit from them but I also h ave to buy the instructions from someone else???- Again, he could see my point after I explained it to him.- He promised he was going to send a DV D to me....you might want to call Zenith as I did. YES, there IS quite a few problems concerning a lack of forthcoming informa tion on the new CH650....and YES, I also had a lot of pre-punched holes tha t was totally useless to me.- I suggested to Roger or Caleb (I can't reme mber which) that if they can't get the holes in the correct place to NOT pu t any holes at all in the side skins.- He DID offer to send me a new set of side skins.- I thanked him for the offer but I was so far along with i t at that point, I wasn't going to go through it again.- So if you are ha ving issues with things not lining up correctly, you are NOT alone. Hope this helped. Larry Hursh Edwardsburg, Michigan Zenith CH650 - N650LM Reserved- -- 2700cc Corvair Powered- Crankshaft already ground .010 - .010- Balanced and nitrited at Moldex- -- I hope to someday be that person my dog thinks I am..... --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Jim Belcher wrote: > From: Jim Belcher > Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit > To: zenith650-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 8:32 AM > --> Zenith650-List message posted > by: Jim Belcher > > On Monday 05 October 2009 07:37, alsmith wrote: > > > > > We are also building a 650. We had to add a 1/8" Shim > to the bottom front > > of the Center spar to move it 5 degrees. The side > skins were also > > incorrect. The seat and arm rest and the rear spare > supports were also > > bent incorrectly.- Zenith will send new parts, I > suggest that you get > > undrilled side skins to insure the alignment and fit > is correct. We have > > also informed Zenith that not having any Builders > instructions for the 650 > > is making it much more challenging a project. To our > knowledge there are > > zero available for the 650 modifications. We have been > informed that they > > are making these a priority to publish. > > There are SOME things available, because they sent me 650 > wing tips for the > 601. when I asked for documentation, I was sent the wingtip > drawings for the > 650. It sounds as though things may not all that well > coordinated. > -- > ======================== ==================== > - - - - - - - - Do > not archive. > ======================== ==================== > - - - - - - - - Jim > B Belcher > - - BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science > - - - - - - - - > - A&P/IA > - ---Retired aerospace technical > manager > > - ---Mathematics and alcohol do not > mix. > - - - ---Do not drink and > derive. > ======================== ==================== > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > ---- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > - - - - - - - -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > - - - le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:34 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit On Monday 05 October 2009 15:04, PatrickW wrote: > I am a bit disturbed at the absence of a Zenith 650 demo plane at the > fly-ins, and the lack of advertising of the 650. > > All in all, I'm happy with how my project has gone, and with Zenith. The > hard part for me is listening to all the other pilots and "experts" out > there who know all about the Zodiac and how "the wings are going to fall > off". It just gets old hearing it all the time. Yup. There were people at this year's IA renewal seminar who I doubt had ever seen an XL or a 650, who were convinced I was slightly out of my mind for building one. I am probably out of my mind for building an airplane at my age, but not for building an XL. -- ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. ============================================ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:20 PM PST US From: Larry Hursh Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit. Thanks Gary for your comments. I wasn't implying I wouldn't buy anything from Jon. For me, it was just the idea that Zenith would provide all the new style parts for the 650 but we are supposed to use the 601XL's assembly guide. I've never installed a canopy before so I was at a TOTAL LOSS as to even how to approach it. I know the canopy material is extremely fragile, especially when it's cold. I just didn't feel I knew enough about the installation so that's why I placed the call to Zenith. I felt it was Zenith's responsibility to me to prove me with either the instructional guide OR the DVD. Do you think if I was to accidentally break my canopy for lack of knowledge how to handle it, do you think Zenith would be willing to provide another to me at no cost? I don't think so. The LEAST they can do is to provide me with the instructions OR the DVD if that is all that's available right now. I think it's the least they can to do to help the Customer out. If I had a 601 and I was wanting to upgrade to the 650 canopy, I would EXPECT to pay for the DVD. That's a different story. I'm sure it's well worth the money spent. Larry --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Gary Gower wrote: > From: Gary Gower > Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit. > To: zenith650-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 3:06 PM > Hello Larry, > > I am a user of the Homebuilthelp > DVD's (whilebuilding my 601 XL) > > There are two very important points I want to comment > and advise. > > 1.- The DVD instruction videos from Jon, HomebuiltHelp > (HBH) are Excelent, they are worth more thatwe > pay for them!Just by thetimesaved > doing the job the first time correctly. > Jon has lots of experience building ZAC Airplanes and > with his camera. BUT He is NOT and > employee of Zenith Aircraft Co.So the HBH > DVD's arenot includedwith the parts > andkits sent by ZAC. > My Advice to all Invest in the Videos you will not > regret it. > > 2.- ZAC has their construction manuals. (photos and > insttructions). > The ZAC manual is also of great help, I usedit > on my first two701's we built here, > BUT the plans Shouldalways the Number ONE > instructions to follow (same goes for the HMH > DVD's). > > Another wonderfull help in building, is all this > (free) Matronics Zentih Lists and all the great people here > (well maybe 99% of us :-). > > Saludos > Gary Gower > Flying from Chapala, Mexico. > 701 912S264 hrs > 601 XL Jab 3300 building > Next proyect: 650? 750? > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Larry Hursh > wrote: > > > From: Larry Hursh > Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit > To: zenith650-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 10:07 AM > > > --> Zenith650-List message posted > by: Larry Hursh > > To all, > > I've called and talked to Roger D at Zenith in Mexico > Missouri about my new style Todd's canopy. I told > him trying to use the old instructional information is > nothing close to the parts I was looking at. I am > deathly afraid to cut my canopy in half without SOME type of > correct information as to how to do it. He could see > my point. He told me that a DVD was available on > www.homebuilthelp.com that shows how to convert an existing > 601XL to the new style canopy. I told him I see how it > is if that was the "solution" to my problem - In > other words, I buy the kit from them but I also have to buy > the instructions from someone else??? Again, he could > see my point after I explained it to > him. He promised he was going to send a DVD to > me....you might want to call Zenith as I did. > > YES, there IS quite a few problems concerning a lack of > forthcoming information on the new CH650....and YES, I also > had a lot of pre-punched holes that was totally useless to > me. I suggested to Roger or Caleb (I can't > remember which) that if they can't get the holes in the > correct place to NOT put any holes at all in the side > skins. He DID offer to send me a new set of side > skins. I thanked him for the offer but I was so far > along with it at that point, I wasn't going to go > through it again. So if you are having issues with > things not lining up correctly, you are NOT alone. > > Hope this helped. > > > Larry Hursh > Edwardsburg, Michigan > > Zenith CH650 - N650LM Reserved > > 2700cc Corvair Powered > Crankshaft already ground .010 - .010 Balanced and > nitrited at Moldex > > > I hope to someday be that person my dog thinks I am..... > > > --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Jim Belcher > wrote: > > > From: Jim Belcher > > Subject: Re: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit > > To: zenith650-list@matronics.com > > Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 8:32 AM > > --> Zenith650-List message posted > > by: Jim Belcher > > > > On Monday 05 October 2009 07:37, alsmith wrote: > "alsmith" > > > > > > > > We are also building a 650. We had to add a > 1/8" Shim > > to the bottom front > > > of the Center spar to move it 5 degrees. The > side > > skins were also > > > incorrect. The seat and arm rest and the rear > spare > > supports were also > > > bent incorrectly. Zenith will send new > parts, I > > suggest that you get > > > undrilled side skins to insure the alignment and > fit > > is correct. We have > > > also informed Zenith that not having any > Builders > > instructions for the 650 > > > is making it > much more challenging a project. To our > > knowledge there are > > > zero available for the 650 modifications. We have > been > > informed that they > > > are making these a priority to publish. > > > > There are SOME things available, because they sent me > 650 > > wing tips for the > > 601. when I asked for documentation, I was sent the > wingtip > > drawings for the > > 650. It sounds as though things may not all that well > > coordinated. > > -- > > =================== > > > Do > > not archive. > > =================== > > > Jim > > B Belcher > > BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science > > > > > A&P/IA > > > Retired aerospace technical > > manager > > > > Mathematics and alcohol do > not > > mix. > > Do not drink > and > > derive. > > ============================================ > > > > Email Forum - > > FAQ, > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > List Contribution Web Site - > > > -Matt > > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.cop; > -Matt > Draronics.com/contribution" > ====== > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:29 PM PST US Subject: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit From: "chuck960" I think most of the incorrect parts are listed in this forum or the 601 forum but simply every part that is connected in any way to and including the center wing was wrong for my kit. Zenith has been good about replacing parts and I want to believe that they have most of this fixed by now. At least I know that they have parts that fit. I'm not sure about the center wing. I didn't push for a new one and ended up with a spacer under the front flange. In my opinion I deserve instructions from Zenith for every assembly, especially the canopy. I should not have to rely on after market DVD's. Chuck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266734#266734 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith650-List: Re: Parts that dont fit From: "aussiech650" Chuck, I agree 100% on the instructions, I can only hope that by the time I get to do the canopy that they have a photo guide to suit the 650. Regarding my center spar, even with a piece of extruded angle (I think 0.093") under the front it still comes in about 1/2 a degree under spec. ZAC have told me that this is acceptable and the rivet crush will still be sufficient, I would prefer to not to be sitting right out on the spec. for such a critical component. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266744#266744 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith650-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith650-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith650-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith650-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.