Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:39 AM - Re: Basic questions (NYTerminat@aol.com)
2. 03:51 AM - Re: Archiving explained (MacDonald Doug)
3. 04:07 AM - Re: Basic questions (MacDonald Doug)
4. 04:11 AM - Re: Finally a list that has more STOL that Zodiac (Geoff Heap)
5. 04:15 AM - Re: Finally a list that has more STOL that Zodiac (Geoff Heap)
6. 05:05 AM - NO Battery box in my 701. Support only COMMENTS, CRITICISM (ruruny@aol.com)
7. 05:46 AM - Re: Finally a list that has more STOL that Zodiac (dbinokc)
8. 05:49 AM - Re: 701 BUILD TIME (Zed Smith)
9. 05:56 AM - Re: Basic questions (dbinokc)
10. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Basic questions (John Short)
11. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Basic questions (John Bolding)
12. 06:58 AM - Re: 701 Wish list (stepinwolf)
13. 07:03 AM - Re: Basic questions (n85ae)
14. 08:04 AM - Re: NO Battery box in my 701. Support only COMMENTS, CRITICISM (ricklach)
15. 08:25 AM - Re: Basic questions (Dan)
16. 09:29 AM - Re: Basic questions (Gary Gower)
17. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: 701 BUILD TIME (John Marzulli)
18. 10:31 AM - Re: Re: 701 Wish list (Dirk Slabbert)
19. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: Basic questions (John Swanson)
20. 04:36 PM - Re: NO Battery box in my 701. Support only COMMENTS, CRITICISM. (RayStL)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Basic questions |
1100 hrs for me including paint and some mods. This was a first time build.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH701/912S 145 hrs
In a message dated 5/5/2008 11:23:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
brantley@mcloudteleco.com writes:
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "dbinokc"
<brantley@mcloudteleco.com>
I have been considering building a kitplane. I have read up on the RV7 and
the CH701. Obviously both are very different aircraft, but each has its
advantages and disadvantages.
One thing I have not been able to find is how many hours it is taking people
to go from parts or sheet metal to the first flight for a 701. On the zenth
site they say 400 hours, but then I found one post saying it took 2650
hours.
Can others who have finished 701's say how many hours build time was needed
to complete the project.
If there is an FAQ to answer this and other newbie questions, just point me
to the URL. I was unable to find one.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Archiving explained |
The Matronics lists (30-40 of them) are hosted as a
favor to us by Matt Drall. He does not charge for
this service only asked for volutary donations every
once and a while. Every post that goes into the
archive takes up hard drive space. Not much but it
does take up some. Now multiply that but 30-40 times
for each of the other lists. You can see that the
archives can get pretty large very fast.
Now, if you asked a building related question, that
does not necessarily need to be archived. A detailed
answer with a copy of a short segment of your question
(for clarity) should, however, be included in the
archive for future reference. The answer would NOT
have the "Do Not Archive" in it.
And basically, Matt Drall, the Matronics God, tells us
in his Use Guidlines, that we are supposed to use Do
Not Archive in our posts unless it is important. His
message board, his rules. Additionally, if we keep
the archives clean of the routine chatter and save it
for the good building details, it will make finding
the good stuff much easier in the future.
Hope this explains the use of "Do Not Archive" a
little better. If you have any more questions, feel
free to ask them on the list, or check the Use
Guidlines the Matt send out.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
PS Thanks for doing these lists Matt
--- dbinokc <brantley@mcloudteleco.com> wrote:
> <brantley@mcloudteleco.com>
>
> I am new to this forum. Why would you not want to
> archive your posts? I assume that means they would
> no longer be searchable. For someone like myself
> that is trying to learn more about building a 701, I
> would think archives would be a good thing.
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Basic questions |
I am still building so my numbers are only an
estimate. Also, I'm scratch building rather than from
a kit so that also changes things.
So far I have around 1050 hours of building. I have
my fuselage built on the gear, wigs about 3/4 done,
electrical system is mostly complete, slats mostly
complete, tail feathers mostly comlete but not yet
mounted, and most of my engine installation is done.
I figure that I will be fairly close to the 1500 hr
point that was suggested for scratch building once I
am done. I am a first time builder but I do have some
aviation background so I am not a complete newbie.
I'm guessing that the guys at the Zenith factory can
likely put together a 701 firwall back in 400 hrs but
I'd guess that the average builder is going to take a
little longer. And remember that the time estimate
does not include the engine installation. That could
likely take a couple of hundred hours too.
Hope this helps
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scartch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
--- dbinokc <brantley@mcloudteleco.com> wrote:
> <brantley@mcloudteleco.com>
>
> I have been considering building a kitplane. I have
> read up on the RV7 and the CH701. Obviously both are
> very different aircraft, but each has its advantages
> and disadvantages.
>
> One thing I have not been able to find is how many
> hours it is taking people to go from parts or sheet
> metal to the first flight for a 701. On the zenth
> site they say 400 hours, but then I found one post
> saying it took 2650 hours.
>
> Can others who have finished 701's say how many
> hours build time was needed to complete the project.
>
>
> If there is an FAQ to answer this and other newbie
> questions, just point me to the URL. I was unable to
> find one.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181407#181407
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Finally a list that has more STOL that Zodiac |
Ref Mr dbinokc
Do not archive
This is so that things like "Whats the weather like in Montana this time of year"
or "Hey ZED. Did you start building again yet?"don't take up valuable archive
space and so that Matt does not have to search them all out and erase them.
Important stuff? Don't say it.
By the way. What kind of name is dbinokc..............Geoff Heap
............................................................Still lost in Lindenwold
Every thing builtWorking on the Electric City stuff. Getting myself educated. SLOW.
Rotax 80hp/Dynon D180/Garmin 296/Icom AC-A210/Dual controls
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181431#181431
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Finally a list that has more STOL that Zodiac |
Didn't mean to sound sarcastic Mr Dbinokc. Welcome to the list.
Whats your real name. Most people here have one..............Geoff
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181432#181432
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| Subject: | NO Battery box in my 701. Support only COMMENTS, CRITICISM |
Did same thing here except?set battery sideways since its an RG type.
http://www.701builder.com/electrical15.htm
Its about the same weight as the stock fiberglass box install.
Brian Unruh
http://www.701builder.com
http://www.salecrib.com
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| Subject: | Re: Finally a list that has more STOL that Zodiac |
Your comment regarding no archive makes sense for removing clutter.
Thanks,
Damon in Oklahoma City
Do not archive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181446#181446
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: 701 BUILD TIME |
do not archive
The 400 hours stated by ZAC is optimistic.
An "experienced" builder could probably fly in 400 hours.
However, EXPERIENCED really means that you already have ALL the tools necessary,
ALL the templates, jigs, work tables, air compressor, paint booth, understanding
spouse, well-mannered offspring/grandchildren, no job to interfere with play,
and several pairs of comfortable shoes.
If you can devote five hours per day, five day per week, to actual construction
you can do it in four months.
Unfortunately there are built-in "holds" to delay the launch.
Waiting on parts, deciding what to do next, sitting, standing, leaning, thinking,
not thinking, correcting mistakes, re-doing corrections, mowing the yard, participating
in honey-do projects, and at least a dozen other less-than-welcome
activities. Divorces are not unheard of.
On the bright side, this project WILL keep you away from the wasteland of network
TV. You won't have the clutter of political talking heads, and you will gain
an understanding of the metric system of linear measure through actual hands-on
experience.
Best of all, this List has some really good contributors; the "been there-done
that" variety.
If you run into a brick wall, just post your bruises.....somebody will respond.
One other thing: The "do not archive" is useful when the discussion falters....as
in "the advantages of the various colors of ScotchBrite Pads" that raged for
months.
There have been a few occasions when the topics degenerated....like the time a
week was spent on "How To Put A Five-Pound Vacuum On A Burlap Bag."
Putting the DNA tag on a post will help keep your name from being associated with
some of the millions of inane terrabytes being stored by the Matronics system.
Otherwise, welcome to the fray!
Zed/701/R91/90+%/several years
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Basic questions |
I have been considering the scratch built route as well. It is one of the reasons
I am considering the 701.
Up to the point of having fabricated the parts, what takes up the most time other
than thinking. My thought would be drilling all the holes, but perhaps it
is something else.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181450#181450
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Basic questions |
DO NOT ARCHIVE
I have about 350 hours in so far and have the fuse near completion firewall
back. 1 wing is 3/4 done, all the tail is done but not mounted and have 1
slat, 1 aileron complete plus a pile of parts made. As I was making parts
for 1 wing I went ahead and made the counter parts for the other wing, so
the 2nd wing should go pretty quick.
I am a first time builder although I did have some of the tools needed like
a shear and break which does speed up the process.
John (Scratch building 701)
Kaufman, Tx
----- Original Message -----
From: "dbinokc" <brantley@mcloudteleco.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 7:56 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Basic questions
> <brantley@mcloudteleco.com>
>
> I have been considering the scratch built route as well. It is one of the
> reasons I am considering the 701.
>
> Up to the point of having fabricated the parts, what takes up the most
> time other than thinking. My thought would be drilling all the holes, but
> perhaps it is something else.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181450#181450
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Basic questions |
It took me about a month to build the "kit", I cheat however as this is my
4th airplane. got all the stuff, space, tools,time, etc. It took 2 days to
build all the form blocks, I guess that was the single most time consuming
event. A month of time to save $8K plus or minus is pretty good wages.
Getting things lined up and prepared TO drill the holes is a LOT more time
consuming than the actual event itself.
I've been flying the test time off a buddies 701/subie and it's a hoot to
fly. I've got about 150' of backyard before I get to the runway and have
taken off from there. The 701will be my "keeper" airplane.
Welcome to the group.
John
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "dbinokc" <brantley@mcloudteleco.com>
: Zenith701801-List: Re: Basic questions
> I have been considering the scratch built route as well. It is one of the
> reasons I am considering the 701.
>
> Up to the point of having fabricated the parts, what takes up the most
> time other than thinking. My thought would be drilling all the holes, but
> perhaps it is something else.
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wish list |
Dirk,
Like yourself, I am considering using stainless to weld up my fuel tanks, and was
wondering what thickness you used, to make yours.
Also, as another member mentioned previously, some photos of the work you accomplished,
would be very welcome.
do not archive
Bob the 701 scratch
Three Rivers, Quebec
#7-7143
www.autoretro.info
--------
Live each day, as if it was your last
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181470#181470
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Basic questions |
Are you single, with a fair amount of money and technically competent?
OR do you have a wife and kids and just starting out?
These kind of things can make 1000+ hour difference is build time.
I find having built and flying one, that I enjoy building so much I
tend to not fly so much because I enjoy being in the shop more than
the sky. Consequently I don't bother counting hours anymore.
If you just want the end result to fly, then consider just buying as
the building process will make you essentially a non-flier for a good
amount of time. AT least in my opinion.
Regards,
Jeff
Flying plane no.1 Kitfox 5 W/IO-240
Building plane no. 2 CH801
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181475#181475
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| Subject: | Re: NO Battery box in my 701. Support only COMMENTS, |
CRITICISM
Hi Brian,
Nicely done, this type of battery installation is very popular in Alaska on Piper
Cubs and Piper Pacer Bush planes. This type of battery has more cranking amps
and is lighter than the acid filled ones so its a nice upgrade. The FAA even
likes it as they are reasonable about making field approvals the for the MOD.
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181492#181492
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| Subject: | Re: Basic questions |
dbinokc wrote:
> Can others who have finished 701's say how many hours build time was needed to
complete the project.
>
> If there is an FAQ to answer this and other newbie questions, just point me to
the URL. I was unable to find one.
>
>
> I built my 701 from a kit and it took about 1200 hours including firewall forward
and I am now flying. Total time was 18 months but there was at least three
months of that waiting for parts.
>
> Dan Wilde
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Basic questions |
We built ours in about 1,200 hrs (actual work, not talking, eating, etc), hours
used on building depends a lot in detail in work (parts finishing, like
rounding the corners of the parts, painting the outside, painting the inside
of the cabin area, instruments and avionics installed, upholstery, etc.) I
think a good building time for the 701 is 1,000 hrs, the more hours go to details,
a spartan built might take 800 or less hours.
I think our 701 came out fine and pretty :-), we hear good comments from other
pilots in fly ins, not a show plane but just taking care of the details.
We count the hours invested per person actualy working on the project. normally
we worked in teams of two (Dad and my Brother) (my Son and Myself) if we
worked 3 hours a given day, the total for the day were 12 hrs.
When working in odd teams (3 or 5 of us) One was in charge of getting the
next parts ready, reading and double checking the plans and manual, and handing
the next tool to be used.
We are using the same way now with the 601 XL, has worked great for us.
Note: Friends and visitors take a lot of time off, but is rewarding when you
get at least one of them interested in building or flying.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
701 912S 183 hrs
Building a 601 XL
dbinokc <brantley@mcloudteleco.com> wrote:
I have been considering building a kitplane. I have read up on the RV7 and the
CH701. Obviously both are very different aircraft, but each has its advantages
and disadvantages.
One thing I have not been able to find is how many hours it is taking people to
go from parts or sheet metal to the first flight for a 701. On the zenth site
they say 400 hours, but then I found one post saying it took 2650 hours.
Can others who have finished 701's say how many hours build time was needed to
complete the project.
If there is an FAQ to answer this and other newbie questions, just point me to
the URL. I was unable to find one.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181407#181407
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: 701 BUILD TIME |
I had some of these same questions when I started researching. Some
questions you just have to find out for yourself.
As for build time - I decided that did not really matter in the end. What
mattered was that I had a good experience and that I had a safe, flying
plane at some point.
End the end, I have tried to keep meticulous count of my hours so other
people who follow can have more data.
http://www.701Builder.Blogspot.com and you can see the breakdown so far.
Good luck!
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 5:49 AM, Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net> wrote:
> zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
> do not archive
>
> The 400 hours stated by ZAC is optimistic.
> An "experienced" builder could probably fly in 400 hours.
>
> However, EXPERIENCED really means that you already have ALL the tools
> necessary, ALL the templates, jigs, work tables, air compressor, paint
> booth, understanding spouse, well-mannered offspring/grandchildren, no job
> to interfere with play, and several pairs of comfortable shoes.
>
> If you can devote five hours per day, five day per week, to actual
> construction you can do it in four months.
>
> Unfortunately there are built-in "holds" to delay the launch.
> Waiting on parts, deciding what to do next, sitting, standing, leaning,
> thinking, not thinking, correcting mistakes, re-doing corrections, mowing
> the yard, participating in honey-do projects, and at least a dozen other
> less-than-welcome activities. Divorces are not unheard of.
>
> On the bright side, this project WILL keep you away from the wasteland of
> network TV. You won't have the clutter of political talking heads, and you
> will gain an understanding of the metric system of linear measure through
> actual hands-on experience.
>
> Best of all, this List has some really good contributors; the "been
> there-done that" variety.
> If you run into a brick wall, just post your bruises.....somebody will
> respond.
>
> One other thing: The "do not archive" is useful when the discussion
> falters....as in "the advantages of the various colors of ScotchBrite Pads"
> that raged for months.
> There have been a few occasions when the topics degenerated....like the
> time a week was spent on "How To Put A Five-Pound Vacuum On A Burlap Bag."
> Putting the DNA tag on a post will help keep your name from being
> associated with some of the millions of inane terrabytes being stored by the
> Matronics system.
>
> Otherwise, welcome to the fray!
>
> Zed/701/R91/90+%/several years
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wish list |
Bob, the plate thickness is mostly detemined by what is available, say the
alu plate is .016 inch, look for a .5 mm plate, or use the same as in the
plans, in inch.
The weight difference is minimal, just a lot easier to weld!
Make the fit tight as possible, start at the bigger end, work left to right,
most times you dont even need filler rod, some around the bends.
Dont try to weld in one go, the metal needs time to cool, otherwise it will
warp.
The wing sits at angle to the fuse, so does the tanks, if you keep the front
tyre inflated, flat bottom tanks are ok.
'Best
Dirk.
----- Original Message -----
From: "stepinwolf" <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:58 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Wish list
> <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
>
> Dirk,
>
> Like yourself, I am considering using stainless to weld up my fuel tanks,
> and was wondering what thickness you used, to make yours.
>
> Also, as another member mentioned previously, some photos of the work you
> accomplished, would be very welcome.
>
>
> do not archive
>
> Bob the 701 scratch
> Three Rivers, Quebec
> #7-7143
>
> www.autoretro.info
>
> --------
> Live each day, as if it was your last
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181470#181470
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Basic questions |
----- Original Message -----
From: "dbinokc" <brantley@mcloudteleco.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:56 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Basic questions
> <brantley@mcloudteleco.com>
>
> I have been considering the scratch built route as well. It is one of the
> reasons I am considering the 701.
>
> Up to the point of having fabricated the parts, what takes up the most
> time other than thinking. My thought would be drilling all the holes, but
> perhaps it is something else.
>
>
> In april I started on my 4th year of building. I am retired and have
> devoted time
to building almost every day. What I found time consuming is:
Trying to determine what the plans call for?
Trying to determine how to do it.
Finding the materials to do it with.
Finding or making the tools to do it with
Learning to do it over and over until one is satisfied with the finished
product.
I believe the complete kit only supplies about 1/2 of what is needed and
none of the tools>
John Swanson
CH701 912s rotax
do not archive
>
>
> --
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: NO Battery box in my 701. Support only COMMENTS, |
CRITICISM.
That is how I did it. I had a Canadian inspector instead of FAA, and he did not
bat an eye. In my case the battery is in cabin, up against the firewall, in front
of the passenger.
-- ray
--------
Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181603#181603
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