Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master warning ()
2. 04:58 AM - Ooops! (Zed Smith)
3. 05:19 AM - Gas springs on 701 bubble doors - force and geometry ()
4. 06:35 AM - Re: 701 wiring questions (Mike Hoffman)
5. 07:04 AM - Re: Is this wing mod " do-able " (ashontz)
6. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Is this wing mod " do-able " (John Marzulli)
7. 11:24 AM - Re: 750 plans availability (raymondj)
8. 01:50 PM - Re: 750 plans availability (JG)
9. 01:59 PM - Re: 750 plans availability (LarryMcFarland)
10. 03:46 PM - Re: 750 plans availability (MacDonald Doug)
11. 04:14 PM - Re: 750 plans availability (raymondj)
12. 08:16 PM - Form Blocks and Flanging Dies (SafeAirOne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master warning |
RE
"if one turns the MASTER everything should turn off"
Note that the standard Rotax 912 rectifier/regulator
made by Ducati is damaged when running the engine without
connection to any battery. This is one of the reasons
the 22000 uF capacitor is fitted but unfortunately this
is not a perfect solution as a big electrolytic capacitor
often fails in frigid conditions and also generally
looses its capacitance with age.
Have a look at the rectifier/regulator unit itself.
The warning against batteryless running is stamped into
the metal case of the unit both in Italian and English...
So make it a habit not to disconnect the battery
by operating the master before the propeller has
stopped turning.
regards
Max
flying and wiring in Helsinki and
building a 912s ch701sp on a-floats
Message 2
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do not archive
Max,
You are correct about the modules. Thanks for the reminder.
Until I suffered a hard drive failure recently, I had a PDF (two pages) with a
great hand-drawn 912 wiring setup. It was apparently done by somebody who was
familiar with the old HeathKit pictorials used in their kits. All wires were
labeled, color-coded, etc, and it included call-outs of all Rotax part numbers
for the user-installed terminals, parts & pieces.
Included was the suggested electrolytic capacitor AND the clamp-type mounting bracket
for the cap.
Don't recall the source, but it made a 912 installation extremely understandable,
as it was done in a 3-D view with the firewall shown as a dashed outline.
If the author of this is still a member of the List it would certainly benefit
all.
Regards,
Zed
Message 3
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| Subject: | Gas springs on 701 bubble doors - force and geometry |
Hello Craig, Jeff, Ron, Stan, Steve and Terry
The drawing 7-F0-7CZ-1 calls out the gas spring as:
(1ZC) PAR 156 AG2 40 lb (2 req'd)
with the gas spring fastened with A4 rivets (four for the fuselage
pivot bracket and and two for the bubble door frame pivot bracket.
The actual part delivered was made by the Spanish company PERIN
(see www perinspa.com) as the 18 kg version in their "PNEUS" line
of 3-18 kg max thrust pneumatic springs, all with 15 mm diameter.
So what is needed is a 40 lb force gas spring with a min 200 mm
stroke because the distance between the pivot points is 150 mm
with the door closed and 330 mm with the door horizontal, from
which angle the door can still move somewhat upwards.
Unfortunately the drawing 7-F0-7CZ lacks most dimensions, but
the lower pivot point is situated 320 mm down from the underside
of the 7F12-1 fuselage frame tube. The door frame pivot point is
situated approximately 100 mm out from the door piano hinge.
When doing actual measurements on the CZAW delivered airframe
the lower pivot point was situated 310 mm down from the underside
of the said fuselage frame tube and the door pivot point was
situated 95 mm out from the door piano hinge when the door
was held horizontal.
When the door piano hinge line is used as a reference and the door
frame is held horizontal the pivot points are situated as follows:
Door pivot point is 30 mm under the level of the piano hinge level
and the frame pivot point is 260 mm under the piano hinge level.
The enclosed picture is better than a thousand words...
best regards
Max
<<gas-spring.jpg>>
msg ends
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 701 wiring questions |
Thanks to all that replied. You helped me clear up some of the questions I had.
I have ordered the DVD from HomeBuilt Help
Mike H
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184173#184173
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Is this wing mod " do-able " |
I believe the idea behind biplanes in the first place was that at the time (early
1900s) not a lot of research was done on airfoils and generally airfoils were
thin and limitied in lift until research showed that thicker airfoils created
a lot more lift without much drag and also allowed for internal structure for
strength (cantilever design). The idea behin biplanes was to increase lift
via 2 sets of thin airfoil anemic lift wings. You don't need the addditional lift
with that airfoil, if anything, you'd possibly make the plane considerably
dangerous. Also, you'll notice with biplanes the wings are actually staggered
somewhat which I believe keeps the wings from creating a large pressure related
drag area from building up between the wings. If they're not staggered, that
second wing may not provide any lift at all and just act as more drag. The fuselage
design doesn't really allow for adding a staggered bottom wing anyway.
[quote="john.marzulli(at)gmail.co"]The owner of Kitfox once famously made a custom
Kitfox biplane. A search in the archives should find it.
There are many things to consider such as the wing loading, center of lift, structural
attachment points and control surface changes that will need to be considered
for the project.
do not archive
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, kmccune wrote:
>
> Hey nice table!
>
> As for the biplane, of course you can make anything you want and you could even
make it work well. But remember that it will no longer be a CH701. I would
start from scratch before I'd modify the airframe that much. I have to admit
a STOL biplane would be really cool.......
>
> Just my $.01... not worth the full price [Wink]
>
> Kevin
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183294#183294 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183294#183294)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ (http://701Builder.blogspot.com/)
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/ (http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/)
http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/ (http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/)
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder
to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184179#184179
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Is this wing mod " do-able " |
That is absolutely true.
The problem gets even worse with triplanes. Recent studies have show that
one wing was basically useless on the famous Fokker Triplane.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 7:03 AM, ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
>
> I believe the idea behind biplanes in the first place was that at the time
> (early 1900s) not a lot of research was done on airfoils and generally
> airfoils were thin and limitied in lift until research showed that thicker
> airfoils created a lot more lift without much drag and also allowed for
> internal structure for strength (cantilever design). The idea behin biplanes
> was to increase lift via 2 sets of thin airfoil anemic lift wings. You don't
> need the addditional lift with that airfoil, if anything, you'd possibly
> make the plane considerably dangerous. Also, you'll notice with biplanes the
> wings are actually staggered somewhat which I believe keeps the wings from
> creating a large pressure related drag area from building up between the
> wings. If they're not staggered, that second wing may not provide any lift
> at all and just act as more drag. The fuselage design doesn't really allow
> for adding a staggered bottom wing anyway.
>
> [quote="john.marzulli(at)gmail.co"]The owner of Kitfox once famously made
> a custom Kitfox biplane. A search in the archives should find it.
>
> There are many things to consider such as the wing loading, center of lift,
> structural attachment points and control surface changes that will need to
> be considered for the project.
>
> do not archive
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, kmccune wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey nice table!
> >
> > As for the biplane, of course you can make anything you want and you
> could even make it work well. But remember that it will no longer be a
> CH701. I would start from scratch before I'd modify the airframe that much.
> I have to admit a STOL biplane would be really cool.......
> >
> > Just my $.01... not worth the full price [Wink]
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > --------
> > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the
> things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the
> bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your
> sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183294#183294 (
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183294#183294)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> John Marzulli
>
> http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ (http://701Builder.blogspot.com/)
> http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/ (http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/)
> http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/ (http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/)
>
> "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
> harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
> -Airplane The Movie
> > [b]
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
>
> do not archive
>
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184179#184179
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 750 plans availability |
Greetings,
Just got back from the Zenith workshop. I was told that " The Plan"
was to roll out the 750 at OSH. The current "Plan" is to offer the 750 as a
kit and to offer plans. I built an 801 rudder and purchased a tail kit, but
I'm waiting to see what happens before I put much more work into the 801.
The 750 looks like the perfect LSA STOL aircraft to me, or as close as I've
seen.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "MacDonald Doug" <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:56 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 750 plans availability
> <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
>
> John, are you sure about the 750 being available as
> plans? In this day and age and given what happened
> with the 701 knock offs, I can't imagine Zenith
> offering plans for 750. Someone mentioned this just
> after Sun and Fun but I don't see it happening.
> Absolutely AWESOME if it is true but I just don't see
> it.
>
> Another 750 question. Has anyone heard if the
> prototype will be at Oshkosh? The pictures that were
> posted on here a few months ago looked very
> interesting. Interesting enough to almost make me
> willing to try building a kit as opposed to scratch
> building my next project. But if the 750 is going to
> be available as plans, WOW, I'm in.
>
> Lets all hope.
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701 Scratch Builder
> NW Ontario, Canada
> working on fuel system
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>> I ASSUME that the news that the 750 was also gonna
>> be avail as plans built
>> made it to the list ??
>> LO&SLO John
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 5/10/2008 11:12 AM
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 750 plans availability |
This is great news, and makes good sense! All the move toward
ready-built high-cost LSA is getting way out of reach. The sheet metal
Zenith designs are so well-suited to plans building that it would be a
real shame to not have this option.
All the talk of not publishing plans for the 750 in order to prevent
other manufacturers copying the aircraft kind of misses the point. If
someone wanted to copy a sheet metal aircraft like that they'd buy a
kit, take those full-size patterns to a CNC punch, set it up to make
identical copies, and they're in production. Much easier than working
thro plans. Not publishing plans is no protection at all, so might as
well provide the plans so that us homebuilders can have the satisfaction
of puzzling our way through them.
Looking forward to OSH.
JG
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: raymondj
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 750 plans availability
<raymondj@frontiernet.net>
Greetings,
Just got back from the Zenith workshop. I was told that " The
Plan"
was to roll out the 750 at OSH. The current "Plan" is to offer the
750 as a
kit and to offer plans. I built an 801 rudder and purchased a tail
kit, but
I'm waiting to see what happens before I put much more work into the
801.
The 750 looks like the perfect LSA STOL aircraft to me, or as close as
I've
seen.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "MacDonald Doug" <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:56 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 750 plans availability
> <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
>
> John, are you sure about the 750 being available as
> plans? In this day and age and given what happened
> with the 701 knock offs, I can't imagine Zenith
> offering plans for 750. Someone mentioned this just
> after Sun and Fun but I don't see it happening.
> Absolutely AWESOME if it is true but I just don't see
> it.
>
> Another 750 question. Has anyone heard if the
> prototype will be at Oshkosh? The pictures that were
> posted on here a few months ago looked very
> interesting. Interesting enough to almost make me
> willing to try building a kit as opposed to scratch
> building my next project. But if the 750 is going to
> be available as plans, WOW, I'm in.
>
> Lets all hope.
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701 Scratch Builder
> NW Ontario, Canada
> working on fuel system
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>> I ASSUME that the news that the 750 was also gonna
>> be avail as plans built
>> made it to the list ??
>> LO&SLO John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 5/10/2008 11:12 AM
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 750 plans availability |
Raymond,
If you look at the page describing the 750 on the Zenith site, you'll
see that they intend to offer it as an LSA, but no plans will be offered.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
raymondj wrote:
> <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
>
> Greetings,
>
> Just got back from the Zenith workshop. I was told that " The
> Plan" was to roll out the 750 at OSH. The current "Plan" is to offer
> the 750 as a kit and to offer plans. I built an 801 rudder and
> purchased a tail kit, but I'm waiting to see what happens before I put
> much more work into the 801. The 750 looks like the perfect LSA STOL
> aircraft to me, or as close as I've seen.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 750 plans availability |
A very valid point JG but keep in mind, how many 701
rip offs are there? Now, how many 801 rip offs are
there?
For $400.00 they've got a set of plans that they could
base their "new" design on. Reverse engineering a kit
would likely cost them closer to twenty thousand just
to get the kit. Very much possible but not as likely
as the $400.00 plans.
As I said in an earlier post, I am very much in favor
of them offering plans. I would definately get a set
at some point. I can also understand them wanting to
provide some sort of protection against being ripped
off again.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do not Archive
--- JG <vgstol@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> This is great news, and makes good sense! All the
> move toward ready-built high-cost LSA is getting way
> out of reach. The sheet metal Zenith designs are so
> well-suited to plans building that it would be a
> real shame to not have this option.
>
> All the talk of not publishing plans for the 750 in
> order to prevent other manufacturers copying the
> aircraft kind of misses the point. If someone
> wanted to copy a sheet metal aircraft like that
> they'd buy a kit, take those full-size patterns to a
> CNC punch, set it up to make identical copies, and
> they're in production. Much easier than working
> thro plans. Not publishing plans is no protection
> at all, so might as well provide the plans so that
> us homebuilders can have the satisfaction of
> puzzling our way through them.
>
> Looking forward to OSH.
>
> JG
>
> Do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 750 plans availability |
Larry,
I can only say that the staff at Zenith on May 15 told me, in answer to the
direct question, that the 750 will be available for plans building.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 750 plans availability
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Raymond,
> If you look at the page describing the 750 on the Zenith site, you'll see
> that they intend to offer it as an LSA, but no plans will be offered.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
> raymondj wrote:
>> <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Just got back from the Zenith workshop. I was told that " The
>> Plan" was to roll out the 750 at OSH. The current "Plan" is to offer the
>> 750 as a kit and to offer plans. I built an 801 rudder and purchased a
>> tail kit, but I'm waiting to see what happens before I put much more work
>> into the 801. The 750 looks like the perfect LSA STOL aircraft to me, or
>> as close as I've seen.
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN
>
>
> --
> Release Date: 5/21/2008 7:21 AM
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Form Blocks and Flanging Dies |
As I prepare to embark on a plans-built 701, I can't help but think that I'll spend
a considerable amount of time laying out and building non-flying items such
as forming blocks and flanging dies.
It also occurs to me that I will be duplicating the efforts of dozens (maybe hundreds)
of other plans-builders who built their own blocks and dies and, after
using them once, have them sitting around collecting dust in a corner of the
garage.
QUESTION: Is there currently any program where a "community" set of forming blocks
is passed along from one builder to another as the need for the particular
block/die arises? I figure that if there were, we could all save the time and
expense of re-inventing the wheel. The only cost would be the shipping to the
next borrower.
I know (and agree) that making the forming blocks and flanging dies is not terribly
difficult; In fact, it's kinda fun; However, the more effort and money
I put into other stuff, the less I'll have to devote to the actual airframe.
Thoughts, comments...??
Thanks,
--Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184296#184296
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