Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:48 AM - Re: Airshow in Iceland. Zenith 701 short take-off (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_J=F3hannsson?=)
2. 07:31 AM - Re: Zenith 912 instrument package for sale (John Short)
3. 09:58 AM - Re: Zenith 912 instrument package for sale (Craig Payne)
4. 10:26 AM - Re: 701 Horizontal Stab Question (649WD)
5. 01:07 PM - Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master warning (ashontz)
6. 01:14 PM - Re: Fuel Levels (ashontz)
7. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master warning ()
8. 04:26 PM - Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master warning (ashontz)
9. 05:14 PM - Re: Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master warning ()
10. 09:24 PM - Re: Delta Hawk DH 200V4 for Zenith CH-801 reply Engines for CH-801 (coalwellt@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Airshow in Iceland. Zenith 701 short take-off |
Hello Doug.
I am running a Rotax 912 UL 80 hp engine and a Woodcomp ground
adjustable prop.
Also tried to keep it as light as possible. Emptly weight is 595 pounds.
Best regards,
Johann G.
Joeing701
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith 912 instrument package for sale |
I would like it all, what your best price?
John (Scratch building 701)
Kaufman, Tx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 1:07 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Zenith 912 instrument package for sale
>I bought a 701 kit which included the standard flight and engine instrument
> package from Zenith for a Rotax 912. Since I'll be installing a glass
> panel
> I'm offering the factory instruments for sale. The package was purchased
> from Zenith in April of 2006 and has never been installed.
>
> The kit includes:
>
> Airspeed, ball, magnetic compass, altimeter, tachometer (with 912 RPM
> limits
> color coded), oil temperature & pressure, coolant temperature, voltage
> indicator & hour meter. Although (I believe) not part of the Zenith
> package
> the photo also shows dual fuel level indicators, Ray Allen trim switch and
> indicator, 25 amp toggle-style circuit breaker and a standard
> left/right/both/crank key switch. Except for the trim switch and indicator
> I
> can include any of these (fuel level, key switch, circuit breaker) if you
> need them.
>
> Zenith lists the package for $1050. I'm offering the whole kit for $600.
> Buyer pays shipping of their choice from Utah.
>
> Picture attached. If you want a higher resolution picture or have
> questions
> write me at craig "at" craigandjean "dot" com.
>
> -- Craig Payne
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Zenith 912 instrument package for sale |
> I would like it all, what your best price?
$600.
-- Craig
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Horizontal Stab Question |
Thanks for the specs on that. Hopefully this wont happen again.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185245#185245
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master warning |
So how do you turn the master off in an emergency without damaging the rectifier?
Sounds like a safety issue to me in that someone who may in fact need to turn
the mater off for safety reasons would be less inclined to thinking they're
going to have an expensive fix on their hands and instead winds up with a cockpit
fire.
Max Johansson wrote:
> RE
>
> "if one turns the MASTER everything should turn off"
>
> Note that the standard Rotax 912 rectifier/regulator
> made by Ducati is damaged when running the engine without
> connection to any battery. This is one of the reasons
> the 22000 uF capacitor is fitted but unfortunately this
> is not a perfect solution as a big electrolytic capacitor
> often fails in frigid conditions and also generally
> looses its capacitance with age.
>
> Have a look at the rectifier/regulator unit itself.
> The warning against batteryless running is stamped into
> the metal case of the unit both in Italian and English...
>
> So make it a habit not to disconnect the battery
> by operating the master before the propeller has
> stopped turning.
>
> regards
> Max
>
> flying and wiring in Helsinki and
> building a 912s ch701sp on a-floats
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185265#185265
Message 6
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This would explain why I ran out of gas, for the first time in 13 years, in my
pickup truck a few months ago. The gauge works and was reading a little less than
1/4 tank.
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> One problem with capacitive probes is that they are sensitive to the
> composition of the fuel. You will get different reading with 100LL vs. car
> gas. I suspect that different ethanol blends will give different readings
> but I don't know how much. I recall being told by the instrument maker MGL
> in South Africa that they don't use capacitive probes because the
> composition of auto gas there is inconsistent enough to cause significant
> errors.
>
> -- Craig
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185266#185266
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master |
warning
Andy, this is not at an emergency issue, but
some student pilots have been seen to switch
off the master before killing the ignition...
With low rpm and a good capacitor nothing
will happen to the rectifier-regulator even
if the battery and all other loads have been
disconnected. But with higer rpm and/or a faulty
capacitor the module is in danger of being
damaged just as the manaufacturer warns.
In my opinion both the Ducati rectifier/regulator
design as well as the Rotax wiring instructions
are minimal and marginal.
rgrds,
Max
RE ....912 master warning
>Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
>
>So how do you turn the master off in an emergency without
>damaging the rectifier? Sounds like a safety issue to me in
>that someone who may in fact need to turn the mater off for
>safety reasons would be less inclined to thinking they're
>going to have an expensive fix on their hands and instead
>winds up with a cockpit fire.
>
>Max Johansson wrote:
>>
>> RE "if one turns the MASTER everything should turn off"
>>
>> Note that the standard Rotax 912 rectifier/regulator made by
>> Ducati is damaged when running the engine without connection
>> to any battery. This is one of the reasons the 22000 uF capacitor
>> is fitted but unfortunately this is not a perfect solution as a big
>> electrolytic capacitor often fails in frigid conditions and also
>> generally looses its capacitance with age.
>>
>> Have a look at the rectifier/regulator unit itself.
>> The warning against batteryless running is stamped into the
>> metal case of the unit both in Italian and English...
>>
>> So make it a habit not to disconnect the battery by operating
>> the master before the propeller has stopped turning.
>>
>> regards
>> Max
>>
>> flying and wiring in Helsinki and
>> building a 912s ch701sp on a-floats
>
>--------
>Andy Shontz
>
>do not archive
>
>CH601XL - Corvair
>www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master warning |
"Andy, this is not at an emergency issue"
My point is, "It could be."
The devil is in the details.
Usually not one thing leads to an accident, or post accident mishaps, but a series
of things. And one thing like the master left on, when it really should have
been off, forgotten about, and then you crash, even fairly gently, and then
everything comes loose and BOOM.
Something like comparing and contrasting the benefits of turning off the master
(ie. $300 for a new generator) vs the chances of an electrical fire/fuel explosion
changes in 15 seconds, but in that 15 seconds of an emergency (ie. yeah,
I really am going down) you could easily forget about the master switch because
you're original thinking 15 seconds earlier was preserving that month's savings.
It really is an potential emergency situation.
Max Johansson wrote:
> Andy, this is not at an emergency issue, but
> some student pilots have been seen to switch
> off the master before killing the ignition...
>
> With low rpm and a good capacitor nothing
> will happen to the rectifier-regulator even
> if the battery and all other loads have been
> disconnected. But with higer rpm and/or a faulty
> capacitor the module is in danger of being
> damaged just as the manaufacturer warns.
>
> In my opinion both the Ducati rectifier/regulator
> design as well as the Rotax wiring instructions
> are minimal and marginal.
>
> rgrds,
> Max
>
>
> RE ....912 master warning
>
>
> >
> > So how do you turn the master off in an emergency without
> > damaging the rectifier? Sounds like a safety issue to me in
> > that someone who may in fact need to turn the mater off for
> > safety reasons would be less inclined to thinking they're
> > going to have an expensive fix on their hands and instead
> > winds up with a cockpit fire.
> >
> > Max Johansson wrote:
> > >
> > > RE "if one turns the MASTER everything should turn off"
> > >
> > > Note that the standard Rotax 912 rectifier/regulator made by
> > > Ducati is damaged when running the engine without connection
> > > to any battery. This is one of the reasons the 22000 uF capacitor
> > > is fitted but unfortunately this is not a perfect solution as a big
> > > electrolytic capacitor often fails in frigid conditions and also
> > > generally looses its capacitance with age.
> > >
> > > Have a look at the rectifier/regulator unit itself.
> > > The warning against batteryless running is stamped into the
> > > metal case of the unit both in Italian and English...
> > >
> > > So make it a habit not to disconnect the battery by operating
> > > the master before the propeller has stopped turning.
> > >
> > > regards
> > > Max
> > >
> > > flying and wiring in Helsinki and
> > > building a 912s ch701sp on a-floats
> >
> > --------
> > Andy Shontz
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > CH601XL - Corvair
> > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185288#185288
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: part of the 701 wiring question - 912 master |
warning
Andy,
you are right in that the pilot should not need to consider what can be
damaged if switching off the master in the air and consequently might
forget to switch off somewhat later when it really would be needed if
the situation necessitates an emergency landing.
But whe have the equipment we have. It is good practice to switch off
only after the Rotax has stopped. It is as well good practice to check
the capacitor regularly as it can be faulty without any indication that
this is the case. And if you have expensive avionics then an overvoltage
relay (that cuts the generator alternating current) is a good investment
that will also allow operating the master at any time.
regards
Max
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com]
>On Behalf Of ext ashontz
>Sent: 29 May, 2008 02:26
>To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: part of the 701 wiring
>question - 912 master warning
>
>
>"Andy, this is not at an emergency issue"
>My point is, "It could be."
>The devil is in the details.
>
>Usually not one thing leads to an accident, or post accident
>mishaps, but a series of things. And one thing like the master
>left on, when it really should have been off, forgotten about,
>and then you crash, even fairly gently, and then everything
>comes loose and BOOM.
>
>Something like comparing and contrasting the benefits of
>turning off the master (ie. $300 for a new generator) vs the
>chances of an electrical fire/fuel explosion changes in 15
>seconds, but in that 15 seconds of an emergency (ie. yeah, I
>really am going down) you could easily forget about the master
>switch because you're original thinking 15 seconds earlier was
>preserving that month's savings. It really is an potential
>emergency situation.
>
>
>Max Johansson wrote:
>>
>> Andy, this is not at an emergency issue, but some student
>> pilots have been seen to switch off the master before
>> killing the ignition...
>>
>> With low rpm and a good capacitor nothing will happen to the
>> rectifier-regulator even if the battery and all other loads
>> have been disconnected. But with higer rpm and/or a faulty capacitor
>> capacitor the module is in danger of being damaged just as
>> the manaufacturer warns.
>>
>> In my opinion both the Ducati rectifier/regulator design as well
>> as the Rotax wiring instructions are minimal and marginal.
>>
>> rgrds,
>> Max
>>
>> RE ....912 master warning
>>
>> >
>> > So how do you turn the master off in an emergency without damaging
>> > the rectifier? Sounds like a safety issue to me in that
>> > someone who may in fact need to turn the mater off for safety
reasons
>> > would be less inclined to thinking they're going to have an
expensive
>> > fix on their hands and instead winds up with a cockpit fire.
>> >
>> > Max Johansson wrote:
>> > >
>> > > RE "if one turns the MASTER everything should turn off"
>> > >
>> > > Note that the standard Rotax 912 rectifier/regulator made by
>> > > Ducati is damaged when running the engine without connection to
>> > > any battery. This is one of the reasons the 22000 uF capacitor is
>> > > fitted but unfortunately this is not a perfect solution as a big
>> > > electrolytic capacitor often fails in frigid conditions and also
>> > > generally looses its capacitance with age.
>> > >
>> > > Have a look at the rectifier/regulator unit itself.
>> > > The warning against batteryless running is stamped into
>> > > the metal case of the unit both in Italian and English...
>> > >
>> > > So make it a habit not to disconnect the battery by operating
>> > > the master before the propeller has stopped turning.
>> > >
>> > > regards
>> > > Max
>> > >
>> > > flying and wiring in Helsinki and
>> > > building a 912s ch701sp on a-floats
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Andy Shontz
>> >
>> > do not archive
>> >
>> > CH601XL - Corvair
>> > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Delta Hawk DH 200V4 for Zenith CH-801 reply Engines |
for CH-801
This is in reply to my letter to DeltaHawk asking about their diesel engines.?They
are at least honest in that the engines may be delay.? Certification is difficult
and expensive.? It is an appealing option!
I was obviously confusing the Jordanian Aerospace Company's "diesel Hawk" (their
name for the CH-801) with the "DELTAHAWK".? The Jordanian site has completely
removed the 801 from their sites in the last month or so,? They had to strengthen
the motor mounts on the diesels but also offered the Lyc? O-360.
-----Original Message-----
From: DeltaHawk Sales Manager <sales@deltahawkengines.com>
Sent: Mon, 12 May 2008 9:00 am
Subject: Re: Delta Hawk DH 200V4 for Zenith CH-801
Hi,
Yes, we do sell to individual builders. We are currently taking orders for the 180hp for $29,000 and the 200hp for $32,500. You can find a copy of our Terms and Conditions on our web site at http://www.deltahawkengines.com/Order-Ts&Cs.pdf. If you wish to place a firm order, please let me know and we can send you an order form. We took it off the web site because we wanted to communicate personally with people before they ordered.
I want to caution you that our goal is to delivery our first batch of engines this
fall. Then subsequent engines would be available for delivery starting in
Second Quarter of 2009. If there is any cause to delay delivery of the initial
batch, it would back up the March engines. What all of this depends on is successful
completion of our current endurance tests. So far, everything is going
well but this is the third time we have been in this testing cycle. We have had
to start over twice so we hate to mislead anyone into thinking we can guarantee
a certain date of delivery. We will keep you apprised of our progress and
let you know if there are any problems.
I am not aware of the Jordanian Aircraft Corporation. What is their web site address?
We may be working with them through a broker. Many of the negotiations
we have with other companies are confidential so I may just not be in the loop.
As for vibration, we have been testing a number of props. MT Propellers has already
approved our engine for use with their props (both hydraulic and electric
constant speed). We hope to be approved by Hartzell shortly. We have made several
changes to the engine to accommodate Hartzell props. I am attaching some
drawings of our current engine mount. We are developing this for one of our investors
who is mounting an inverted DeltaHawk on a Velocity. These are so new
that we don't have them on the web site yet. I will be adding them soon.
Thank you for your interest in DeltaHawk engines. If you have further questions,
please let me know.
Sincerely,
Rip Edmundson
DeltaHawk Engines, Inc.
Racine, Wisconsin USA
rip@deltahawkengines.com
--Original Message Text---
From: coalwellt@aol.com
Sirs,
I'm at the tail end of building the CH-801, I've just finished running the cables
and the empty nose keeps looking at me.
Will you sell to individual builders?
If I am not mistaken, the Jordanian Aircraft company is using the Delta Hawk as
its primary power in its version of the CH-801. I heard that they had to stengthen
the motor mount. Not an issue but I'd like to see the type of mount. Do
you have data from their experience or web sites with same. Their site doesn't
say much, but does show 2&3 bladed props.
I'm very interested because aviation fuel is going to become hard to find.
Are you delivering now? (uncertified DH 200 V4) What time lag?
Thanks, I'm getting close to sh*t or get off the pot time!
Thanks,
Tim Coalwell
2421 Scarborough Dr
Anchorage, AK 99504
coalwellt@aol.com
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