Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:54 AM - Spar Cap Extrusion... (SafeAirOne)
2. 07:43 AM - Re: Spar Cap Extrusion... (LarryMcFarland)
3. 07:58 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection (txpilot)
4. 09:37 AM - Re: How to avoid a smashed fuselage? (Keystone Engineering LLC)
5. 12:46 PM - Re: Spar Cap Extrusion... (Randall J. Hebert)
6. 01:34 PM - Re: Spar Cap Extrusion... (Dan)
7. 03:55 PM - Re: Spar Cap Extrusion... (SafeAirOne)
8. 08:16 PM - Re: Re: Spar Cap Extrusion... (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Spar Cap Extrusion... |
I am still preparing to pull my first rivet on a plans-built 701. I have found
a reasonably-priced local source for the aluminum sheet and extrusions (Yarde
Metals). They have a good selection of 6061 T6 including both square-corner
(AA) and radiused corner (AS) angle.
I think I was reading in some European Government documment regarding 701 certification,
that they required the spar cap angles to be the type with a radiused
inside corner.
Is one better than the other? The price is about the same, I'm sure, but is one
profile better than the other structurally?
Thanks,
--Mark
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188885#188885
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Cap Extrusion... |
Hi Mark,
The inside corner would convey stresses better than a sharp inside
corner, but I've never seen 6061-t6 made that way.
If it were available, I'd make a point of obtaining and using it in lieu
of the sharp corner angle to avoid the potential of a stress
fracture.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
SafeAirOne wrote:
>
> I am still preparing to pull my first rivet on a plans-built 701. I have found
a reasonably-priced local source for the aluminum sheet and extrusions (Yarde
Metals). They have a good selection of 6061 T6 including both square-corner
(AA) and radiused corner (AS) angle.
>
> I think I was reading in some European Government documment regarding 701 certification,
that they required the spar cap angles to be the type with a radiused
inside corner.
>
> Is one better than the other? The price is about the same, I'm sure, but is
one profile better than the other structurally?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188885#188885
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking ACF50 will be the way to go.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188894#188894
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| Subject: | Re: How to avoid a smashed fuselage? |
There are now three known cases of a bent landing gear on an 801. I bent
mine hitting a rock on a very soft beach 2 years ago. I should have known
better but I decided to take off when the tide was relatively high. The
sand was softer than I thought. I had a hard time accelerating but once I
got started I did not want to stop because I was concerned that the nose
wheel would dig in and flipping the plane. It took probably 2000 or 2500'
to get the 801 into the air. I never thought I would have that long of a
take off run, so I did not look that far down the beach. Needless to say it
was at sea level and a 50 degree day. There were two of us on board and
probably 30 gallons of fuel. I have swapped out the 8.00 on the mains for
8.50s, so I have a little more floatation. I have been is this situation
before and the sand is soft enough that you cannot accelerate. Every now
and then you hit a harder patch and you go a little faster.
In Alaska when you are landing off airport there is a saying that it is not
if you will wreck your plane it is when. When you are landing and taking
off an area that changes each time you land there things change. Unexpected
things happen. Was there a storm that changed the material on the beach?
Did it bring in some soft sand? Where on the beach does the sand look
hardest? What does soft sand look like? Is the slope of the beach steeper
or flatter today than yesterday? Is the beach wavy? Did the last high
water event add a drainage channel across your sand bar? Did the material
the sand bar change? I have witnessed and experienced all of the above over
the last 30 years. Even with experience you can only tell so much from the
air!
In Alaska, we talk about where you want the plane to fail when you hit
something. You have two choices, the landing gear or the fuselage. The
accepted conclusion is that you are better off to have the landing gear
fail. You may need a new landing gear and prop. If you make the landing
gear strong enough it tears up the fuselage, you need to replace the
longerons, the prop and the bottom of plane.
Anyway, I hit a rock out at Hells Hole that rotated the left landing gear
rearward. I flew it home and landed uneventfully. I straightened out what
I could straighten out and replaced what I could not get straight. I ended
up replacing an 8" section of the longeron. I added stiffeners mainly to
help flatten out the skin.
Here I thought I would have the nose gear fail and really tear things up.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
360 hrs
Working on project house rather than flying
Looking forward to installing floats this summer
Message 5
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| Subject: | Spar Cap Extrusion... |
Mark
I don't know if one is better than the other but consider this
The radiused corner has LESS cross sectional area
I personally do not see a difference.
The material I got was 0.125 at a local aluminum supplier and it has
the rounded corner. The 093 as I understand it is a special run that
ZAC supplies.
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SafeAirOne
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:54 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Spar Cap Extrusion...
--> <safeairone@verizon.net>
I am still preparing to pull my first rivet on a plans-built 701. I
have found a reasonably-priced local source for the aluminum sheet and
extrusions (Yarde Metals). They have a good selection of 6061 T6
including both square-corner (AA) and radiused corner (AS) angle.
I think I was reading in some European Government documment regarding
701 certification, that they required the spar cap angles to be the
type with a radiused inside corner.
Is one better than the other? The price is about the same, I'm sure,
but is one profile better than the other structurally?
Thanks,
--Mark
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188885#188885
Message 6
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| Subject: | Spar Cap Extrusion... |
I also got my .125 extrusion locally and it has the squared inside corner.
When I looked at the construction cd in the flaperon skeleton, section 1,
page 3 it shows a picture of the hinge bracket in the margin that clearly
shows the extrusion with a square corner so I am confidant that it will be
ok. Dan.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randall
J. Hebert
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:43 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Spar Cap Extrusion...
<randy@rjhebertassoc.com>
Mark
I don't know if one is better than the other but consider this
The radiused corner has LESS cross sectional area
I personally do not see a difference.
The material I got was 0.125 at a local aluminum supplier and it has
the rounded corner. The 093 as I understand it is a special run that
ZAC supplies.
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SafeAirOne
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:54 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Spar Cap Extrusion...
--> <safeairone@verizon.net>
I am still preparing to pull my first rivet on a plans-built 701. I
have found a reasonably-priced local source for the aluminum sheet and
extrusions (Yarde Metals). They have a good selection of 6061 T6
including both square-corner (AA) and radiused corner (AS) angle.
I think I was reading in some European Government documment regarding
701 certification, that they required the spar cap angles to be the
type with a radiused inside corner.
Is one better than the other? The price is about the same, I'm sure,
but is one profile better than the other structurally?
Thanks,
--Mark
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188885#188885
Checked by AVG.
9:27 AM
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Cap Extrusion... |
[quote="randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co"]
The radiused corner has LESS cross sectional area[quote]
Thanks for everyone's help. I wish I could post a picture of the 2 profiles, but
the catalog is in PDF format (all 493 pages of it).
Hmm...Just looking at the cross section images in the Yarde Metals catalog, it
SEEMS like the angle with the radiused inside corner has the same cross section
as the sharp cornered ones with a fillet ADDED to the inside corner.
However, unlike the squared angle, the ends of the rdiused angle's legs are also
rounded down, so it may be possible that the overall cross section is less than
the squared angle.
I don't think it'll matter a whole lot--the .125 thickness is already more than
the plans call for the radiused inside corner will just be a bonus, I guess!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188961#188961
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Cap Extrusion... |
> I wish I could post a picture of the 2 profiles, but the catalog is in PDF
format
You can grab anything even from protected PDF documents. The "Print Screen"
key on your keyboard (or "PrtSc") copies the entire screen to the clipboard.
Print-screen combined with the Alt key only snaps the currently selected
window. Then open your favorite paint or photo editing program and paste the
clipboard into a blank document. It will be a large image so crop it to the
interesting portion.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SafeAirOne
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:55 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Spar Cap Extrusion...
<safeairone@verizon.net>
[quote="randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co"]
The radiused corner has LESS cross sectional area[quote]
Thanks for everyone's help. I wish I could post a picture of the 2
profiles, but the catalog is in PDF format (all 493 pages of it).
Hmm...Just looking at the cross section images in the Yarde Metals catalog,
it SEEMS like the angle with the radiused inside corner has the same cross
section as the sharp cornered ones with a fillet ADDED to the inside corner.
However, unlike the squared angle, the ends of the rdiused angle's legs are
also rounded down, so it may be possible that the overall cross section is
less than the squared angle.
I don't think it'll matter a whole lot--the .125 thickness is already more
than the plans call for the radiused inside corner will just be a bonus, I
guess!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188961#188961
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