---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/25/08: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:10 AM - 801 For sale (Ron & Erin Weich) 2. 11:46 AM - Chris Heintz letter (Jon Croke) 3. 05:03 PM - Re: Chris Heintz letter (n801bh@netzero.com) 4. 05:39 PM - Re: Chris Heintz letter (ZodieRocket) 5. 07:00 PM - Re: Chris Heintz letter (n801bh@netzero.com) 6. 07:19 PM - Cable tension (Zed Smith) 7. 08:32 PM - Re: Cable tension (n801bh@netzero.com) 8. 09:22 PM - Re: Cable tension (ZodieRocket) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:49 AM PST US From: "Ron & Erin Weich" Subject: Zenith701801-List: 801 For sale N801TB for sale Built 2004 235 TTAF 235 TSNEW Superior 0-360 LASAR Ignition Apollo GX60 GPS/Com Garmin GTX 327 Transponder Trutrak AP 4-place intercom "Steam Gauges" Landshorter VG's on Horizontal stab long range tanks $65,000 Photos on trade-a-plane.com Ron Weich Las Cruces, NM ron@ranchonogal.com 575-621-5933 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:07 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith701801-List: Chris Heintz letter FYI, There is a NEW letter from Chris Heintz regarding aileron flutter posted at www.zenair.org (open to all readers) I would like to thank Chris Heintz for this letter, as I think it could be of importance to all CH design builders and CH aircraft owners. Thanks Jon editor ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:17 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Chris Heintz letter I love Zenith and their product line of kitplanes,,, BUT. The article st ates to set the cable tension to 75 LBS on the first flight and let the cable loosen. MY guess is at 75 LBS you will rip out all the pulleys an d other components linked to the cables. I really can't believe Chris wo uld have said that... Just my humble opinion though, do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Jon Croke" wrote: FYI, There is a NEW letter from Chris Heintz regarding aileron flutter p osted at www.zenair.org (open to all readers)I would like to thank Chri s Heintz for this letter, as I think it could be of importance to all CH ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== = ____________________________________________________________ Click here for great computer networking solutions! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vC4gdVX0GI0Gi5X5VW poXxXnRjWeLvCky8pFvkiLv5yLYLo/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:25 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Chris Heintz letter Ben, the 801 flies just fine with 80 lbs, the intent is to ensure that all slack in the cables is released and then adjusted to proper value. I have set the tension of cables for another builder and set them to 40lbs. After the first flight the cables were less then 10lbs. I quickly re-adjusted them back to 35lbs and redid the safety wire and they stayed constant to the first annual. The intent and desire is that during the first flight all chances of flutter or overly loose cables is removed. Chris has told me several times and at our chapter meeting for the RAA to ensure that the cable tension is higher then spec for first flight then backed off to appropriate # and checked often. During the 801's 25 hrs the last two weeks I checked the cable tension 5 times, the value never changed from setting it to 35lbs, this is not always the case. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh@netzero.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Chris Heintz letter I love Zenith and their product line of kitplanes,,, BUT. The article states to set the cable tension to 75 LBS on the first flight and let the cable loosen. MY guess is at 75 LBS you will rip out all the pulleys and other components linked to the cables. I really can't believe Chris would have said that... Just my humble opinion though, do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Jon Croke" wrote: FYI, There is a NEW letter from Chris Heintz regarding aileron flutter posted at www.zenair.org (open to all readers) I would like to thank Chris Heintz for this letter, as I think it could be of importance to all CH design builders and CH aircraft owners. Thanks Jon editor =================================== 1-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List =================================== tronics.com =================================== www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ____________________________________________________________ Click here for great computer networking solutions! Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 7/24/2008 5:42 PM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:08 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Chris Heintz letter The plans call for cable tension to be 25-35 lbs. That is with the front gear off the ground so to get the full measurement. If the gear is sett led the cables get real tight real quick when the gear is fully extended .. On my 801 set the tension to 32 lbs. Checked it every few hours and it d ropped 3 lbs in the first 10 hours and has not changes since. My rudder pivot point is about worn out at 200+ hours and hundreds of landings. I personally can't imagine 40 lbs> . 80 !!!! lbs Good luck. I will go bac k to the 801 website and see if Chris has modified the tension specs on the 801 to 80 lbs. My guess it is still 25-35 lbs. I am not wanting to get in a pissing match with ya as I respect you alot but this is how I f eel.. Tailwinds. Ben Haas N801BH Ben, the 801 flies just fine with 80 lbs, the intent is to ensure that a ll slack in the cables is released and then adjusted to proper value. I have set the tension of cables for another builder and set them to 40lbs . After the first flight the cables were less then 10lbs. I quickly re-a djusted them back to 35lbs and redid the safety wire and they stayed con stant to the first annual. The intent and desire is that during the firs t flight all chances of flutter or overly loose cables is removed. Chris has told me several times and at our chapter meeting for the RAA to ens ure that the cable tension is higher then spec for first flight then bac ked off to appropriate # and checked often. During the 801=92s 25 hrs th e last two weeks I checked the cable tension 5 times, the value never ch anged from setting it to 35lbs, this is not always the case. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith7 01801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh@netzero.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Chris Heintz letter I love Zenith and their product line of kitplanes,,, BUT. The article st ates to set the cable tension to 75 LBS on the first flight and let the cable loosen. MY guess is at 75 LBS you will rip out all the pulleys an d other components linked to the cables. I really can't believe Chris wo uld have said that... Just my humble opinion though, do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Jon Croke" wrote: FYI, There is a NEW letter from Chris Heintz regarding aileron flutter posted at www.zenair.org (open to all readers) I would like to thank Chris Heintz for this letter, as I think it could be of importance to all CH design builders and CH aircraft owners. Thanks Jon editor ===========1-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Zenith701801-List===========tronics.com== =========www.matronics.com/contribution===== ====== ____________________________________________________________ Click here for great computer networking solutions! - The Zenith701801-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUM S - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution We b Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contributio Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 7/24/2008 5:42 PM ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======= ____________________________________________________________ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uHAfAoRGTJAQtBoF4l sDhDZQf1fRLo4aMUx7xokKQIAG2We/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:22 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith701801-List: Cable tension do not archive In other industries, in particular those using extremely long cables....on the order of 2000 to 2500 feet, it is common practice to "stretch" these prior to actual use. In the case of riggers building tall communications towers, a new piece of winch cable is wound onto the winch reel then unwound up a tower, over a pulley and back down, then loaded with at least 50 percent of the cable capacity to "straighten" and relax the cable. In some cases they will simple stretch the cable across a field and slowly drag a pickup truck as the cable is wound back on the winch. Whatever method is used, they NEVER use the cable without first a good smooth pull to see that it is okay, free of burrs, defects, twists, etc. Old crop duster (now deceased) once told me to "stretch" it before attaching second thimble. His method was to install first thimble, then cut the cable about a foot too long. He attached the thimble end high in the hangar and attached an old engine block to the bottom end; ran the loose end through a bolt hole, doubled it back and clamped it with Vise Grip pliers. Let it hang several days. Idea was/is that after having been stretched, the measurement for the second thimble would be more likely to be correct for much longer......less stretch after installation. Surely everybody has a spare 300 pound cast iron block in the back yard. Regards to all, Zed ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:45 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Cable tension It ain't the cable that worries me. It is the attach points that the cab le runs on, ie, Pulleys and their brackets, fairleads, turn buckles, cle vis pins. etc..... Over and out. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Zed Smith wrote: net> do not archive In other industries, in particular those using extremely long cables.... on the order of 2000 to 2500 feet, it is common practice to "stretch" th ese prior to actual use. In the case of riggers building tall communications towers, a new piece of winch cable is wound onto the winch reel then unwound up a tower, ove r a pulley and back down, then loaded with at least 50 percent of the ca ble capacity to "straighten" and relax the cable. In some cases they wi ll simple stretch the cable across a field and slowly drag a pickup truc k as the cable is wound back on the winch. Whatever method is used, they NEVER use the cable without first a good s mooth pull to see that it is okay, free of burrs, defects, twists, etc. Old crop duster (now deceased) once told me to "stretch" it before attac hing second thimble. His method was to install first thimble, then cut the cable about a foot too long. He attached the thimble end high in the hangar and attached an old engin e block to the bottom end; ran the loose end through a bolt hole, double d it back and clamped it with Vise Grip pliers. Let it hang several day s. Idea was/is that after having been stretched, the measurement for the se cond thimble would be more likely to be correct for much longer......les s stretch after installation. Surely everybody has a spare 300 pound cast iron block in the back yard. Regards to all, Zed ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ____________________________________________________________ Recharge and relax. Click for great vacation ideas. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uHYu5MOaJuQEcQNgUF vzLgnPHryNgHbwzNvXAQCaNWEqw1U/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:58 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Cable tension Hi Ben, I am not worried about the pully's or attach points. The only thing I would be concerned about is the fairleads in the high tensile setting and since that is only for one circuit then I am not very concerned. The rest of the hardware can handle a lot more then you would expect. I have an 801 with a LOM engine right now that is in for repairs, it had a boo boo with the nose gear. I expect the cables were well over 200 lbs before I released as much pressure as I could, they are still well over 70 lbs but I am at the end of the turnbuckle and I do not wish to release the rudder until it is in the shop. There has been no damage to the any parts the cables are in contact with. Though this is not as big an issue with 701 and 801's as our flapperons are tube operated and the lighter cables on the rudder and elevator are not such a big deal. The letter is directed at more of the 601 family. There have been many planes in the 601 series that I have seen with very loose cables and though in the older 601's that cruised at 90 mph it was never really such a big deal and warranted little attention. The 601XL with a larger aileron that can cruise at 130 mph and as we have heard on the other list several guys exceeded the Vne having loose cables can be a serious issue. I believe Chris is just bringing to attention that AC43- 13B chapter 7 should be read and followed by all builders in order to have the safest plane. Also Ben thanks for the kind words, and never be afraid to speak up against me, I write these letters late at night after a very long day. I try to help out as much as possible, but if I am in error then I expect to be slapped silly. I have no issue with admitting that I am wrong from time to time as we all are. Often I add my personal feelings into my answers as well. What I like is definitely not what everyone likes, which is the perfect reason for newbie's to read these lists in order to get many opinions and decide for themselves. I simply tell the guys in my shop if you think your opinion is far better then mine all you have to do is convince me, if I have more reasons for my way then that is how it is done, if they have more reasons then I have, I'm open for change. Prime example is the engine discussion for the 701, if your alternate engine is better then the Rotax, then convince me. I always had a Subaru in my 601's until the XL. I had a Sub EA-82 MPFI Turbo mounted on the XL at first, but I was shown the light on the Corvair being a better choice so the Sub is sitting in the corner of the hanger. Yes the 701 is sporting a Rotax 912. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh@netzero.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 11:28 PM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Cable tension It ain't the cable that worries me. It is the attach points that the cable runs on, ie, Pulleys and their brackets, fairleads, turn buckles, clevis pins. etc..... Over and out. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Zed Smith wrote: do not archive In other industries, in particular those using extremely long cables....on the order of 2000 to 2500 feet, it is common practice to "stretch" these prior to actual use. In the case of riggers building tall communications towers, a new piece of winch cable is wound onto the winch reel then unwound up a tower, over a pulley and back down, then loaded with at least 50 percent of the cable capacity to "straighten" and relax the cable. In some cases they will simple stretch the cable across a field and slowly drag a pickup truck as the cable is wound back on the winch. Whatever method is used, they NEVER use the cable without first a good smooth pull to see that it is okay, free of burrs, defects, twists, etc. Old crop duster (now deceased) once told me to "stretch" it before attaching second thimble. His method was to install first thimble, then cut the cable about a foot too long. He attached the thimble end high in the hangar and attached an old engine block to the bottom end; ran the loose end through a bolt hole, doubled it back and clamped it with Vise Grip pliers. Let it hang several days. Idea was/is that after having been stretched, the measurement for the second thimble would be more likely to be correct for much longer......less stretch after installation. Surely everybody has a spare 300 pound cast iron block in the back yard. Regards to all,=================================================================== ============================bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - ____________________________________________________________ Recharge and relax. Click for great vacation ideas. 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