---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/10/08: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:25 AM - Re: questions on weights (Ken Arnold) 2. 05:11 AM - Re: questions on weights (Gordon) 3. 06:34 AM - Re: questions on weights (George Race) 4. 06:35 AM - Chat Room Reminder for "Digesters" (George Race) 5. 11:20 AM - Re: Automotive Conversions Vol 3 (kmccune) 6. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Conversions Vol 3 (LarryMcFarland) 7. 02:21 PM - Strut Fairings (Tommy Walker) 8. 02:32 PM - Re: Strut Fairings (kmccune) 9. 03:20 PM - Re: questions on weights (sonar1@cox.net) 10. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: questions on weights (Bob Collins) 11. 08:55 PM - 701 vs 750 - useful load (Ken Ryan) 12. 09:22 PM - Re: 701 vs 750 - useful load (Craig Payne) 13. 09:45 PM - Re: 701 vs 750 - useful load (billmileski) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:59 AM PST US From: "Ken Arnold" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: questions on weights Ken, My 701 EW is 605# including paint. Rotax 912ULS. Regards, Ken Arnold do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Ryan" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: questions on weights > > First time poster, > > I'm trying to figure out what the 701 really weighs, and looking for any > tips on keeping things > light. It would be great if some of you could post your empty weights > (along with engine > choice and anything you did that added/subtracted weight). > > I also have a couple of specific questions: > > 1. Regarding the extended fuel option, can someone tell me the complete > weight of > upgrading to four wing tanks versus the standard two? > > side issue: 701 comes with 2 X 10 gallons but how much of that is usable? > > 2. Did any of you weigh your plane before and then after painting? I'm > curious as to how > much weight is saved by not painting. > > Thanks for help with weights > > Right now I'm trying to decide between a 701 and a 750, and in order to do > that, I really need > to figure out what the "real world" useful load might be. > > > -- > Ken Ryan > http://kenryan.com > "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, > and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein- > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:50 AM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: questions on weights Ken, My 701 has the extra fuel tanks (4 x 10) although if I had it to do again I probably would not have spent the time, money and extra weight on them. Rotax 912ULS with CZ firewall forward, bubble doors, full panel (ifr). electric flaps and trim. I stuck to the plans and the only modification was to add false ribs in the outer wing bays to prevent oil canning. Below is a copy of my weight and balance after painting. I didn't weigh it before painting. I'm very happy with the performance! Gordon ITEM WEIGHT ARM MOMENT ______________________empty weight & CG________________ right main wheel 214 716 153224 left main wheel 218 716 156088 nose wheel 178 -686 -122108 computed CG empty 610 307 187204 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Ryan" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: questions on weights > > First time poster, > > I'm trying to figure out what the 701 really weighs, and looking for any > tips on keeping things > light. It would be great if some of you could post your empty weights > (along with engine > choice and anything you did that added/subtracted weight). > > I also have a couple of specific questions: > > 1. Regarding the extended fuel option, can someone tell me the complete > weight of > upgrading to four wing tanks versus the standard two? > > side issue: 701 comes with 2 X 10 gallons but how much of that is usable? > > 2. Did any of you weigh your plane before and then after painting? I'm > curious as to how > much weight is saved by not painting. > > Thanks for help with weights > > Right now I'm trying to decide between a 701 and a 750, and in order to do > that, I really need > to figure out what the "real world" useful load might be. > > > -- > Ken Ryan > http://kenryan.com > "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, > and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein- > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:07 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: questions on weights Hi Ken: I have recently finished a 701. My empty weight was 582 pounds. With full fuel, 20 gals, and me on board the total weight is 882 pounds. My CG worked out to be 14.81, which is almost perfect. I am running the Jabiur 2200a and have the battery mounted on the firewall. I did not do anything to try to reduce the overall weight. I do have dual sticks and an electric flaperon control. My ELT is located in the tail. I have a fully equipped panel, and even a small center console with the EIS located just below the panel. You can see pictures at www.mykitairplane.com/MyCH701 I choose not to paint the airplane at this time. I was told by my EAA advisors that paint, depending on the type and number of coats, can add between 25 and 50 pounds to the overall weight. That seems a bit high to me, based on the size of the aircraft. -----Original Message----- I'm trying to figure out what the 701 really weighs, and looking for any tips on keeping things light. It would be great if some of you could post your empty weights (along with engine choice and anything you did that added/subtracted weight). 2. Did any of you weigh your plane before and then after painting? I'm curious as to how much weight is saved by not painting. Thanks for help with weights Right now I'm trying to decide between a 701 and a 750, and in order to do that, I really need to figure out what the "real world" useful load might be. -- Ken Ryan http://kenryan.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:37 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith701801-List: Chat Room Reminder for "Digesters" Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern Time. http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George CH-701 - N73EX Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:27 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Automotive Conversions Vol 3 From: "kmccune" was there anything on the Raven SVS1300? Kevin do not archive -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197739#197739 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:16 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Automotive Conversions Vol 3 Not that I saw, but probably somewhere in Volumes 1 and 2. The coverage is really extensive. Larry McFarland do not archive kmccune wrote: > > was there anything on the Raven SVS1300? > > Kevin > > do not archive > > -------- > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Strut Fairings From: "Tommy Walker" Builders, I am looking for some dimensions for strut fairings for the 701. I have a little extra .016 sheet that gremlins drilled wrong while I was asleep. I would like to convert it into some fairings to cover the tubes. I'm also interested in attachment points for the fairings. Many thanks for any info. Tommy Walker in Alabama N8701 70.0 HRS -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197772#197772 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Strut Fairings From: "kmccune" [Shocked] :P :D Darn, I have some of that too! Sorry could not resist, I am interested in the answer though! do not archive Kevin Tommy Walker wrote: > that gremlins drilled wrong while I was asleep. -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197775#197775 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: questions on weights From: "sonar1@cox.net" My 701, with paint and the 80 hp rotax, built with practically no modifications except the addition of the small dynon came in at 585 pounds, giving useful load of 515 pounds. I love this plane! Seems to me that the 750 is 200 pounds heavier with a 200 pound heavier gross, which doesn't help anyone. It would be harder to move around on the ground, the wings are longer, it would burn more fuel, costs more, needs a bigger engine, and still carries the same useful load. Fred Sanford N9701 (Flew Sept 2005) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197778#197778 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: questions on weights From: Bob Collins Hi Fred, I do hope that the 750 has at least the same useful load. However, useful load isn't the only important dimension. Unlike the 701, the 750 is actually big enough inside for my 6'3" body. For me, this changed the equation from building a non-Zenith design to getting ready to order the rudder kit for the 750. After sitting in the 750 at Oshkosh, I expect some others may come to the same conclusion. Your mileage my vary. ;-) Bob Collins Sunnyvale CA USA sonar1@cox.net wrote: > > My 701, with paint and the 80 hp rotax, built with practically no modifications except the addition of the small dynon came in at 585 pounds, giving useful load of 515 pounds. I love this plane! > Seems to me that the 750 is 200 pounds heavier with a 200 pound heavier gross, which doesn't help anyone. It would be harder to move around on the ground, the wings are longer, it would burn more fuel, costs more, needs a bigger engine, and still carries the same useful load. > > Fred Sanford N9701 (Flew Sept 2005) > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:33 PM PST US From: "Ken Ryan" Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 vs 750 - useful load X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Thanks to those who responded to my query on empty weights for the 701. More input would be welcome! Zenith lists the useful load for the 750 as 545 lbs. (as compared to 520 for the 701) . . . BUT Sebastian told me that using the Rotax 914 in- stead of the 0-200 would save about 100 lbs. I think he's a little high on that, but I do believe you would save 75 lbs. (and gain 15 hp) so that would bring the useful load up to 620 lbs. (More if you figure in the reduced weight of your wallet.) Data I've seen regarding fuel consumption at 65% power is: 912 UL 4.2 gph 912 ULS 4.8 gph 914 UL 4.8 gph So it looks to me like if you go 750 with the powerful Rotax, you will gain 100 lbs. useful load with no fuel penalty (at least at cruise). Consumption for the 914 does jump at higher power settings: 75% 5.7 gph 100% 9.0 gph -- Ken Ryan http://kenryan.com "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:48 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 vs 750 - useful load A middle ground would be to fly the 750 with a Jabiru 3300. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ryan Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:55 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 vs 750 - useful load Thanks to those who responded to my query on empty weights for the 701. More input would be welcome! Zenith lists the useful load for the 750 as 545 lbs. (as compared to 520 for the 701) . . . BUT Sebastian told me that using the Rotax 914 in- stead of the 0-200 would save about 100 lbs. I think he's a little high on that, but I do believe you would save 75 lbs. (and gain 15 hp) so that would bring the useful load up to 620 lbs. (More if you figure in the reduced weight of your wallet.) Data I've seen regarding fuel consumption at 65% power is: 912 UL 4.2 gph 912 ULS 4.8 gph 914 UL 4.8 gph So it looks to me like if you go 750 with the powerful Rotax, you will gain 100 lbs. useful load with no fuel penalty (at least at cruise). Consumption for the 914 does jump at higher power settings: 75% 5.7 gph 100% 9.0 gph -- Ken Ryan http://kenryan.com "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 vs 750 - useful load From: "billmileski" Ken, The fuel consumption figures for the 912 series seem a bit high to me; I regularly see less than 4 gph with a 912S, with a 701 cruising at 85mph, which I assumme must be at least 65% power. Although I wonder.. the plane will do 110mph at full throttle, and if propellor/airframe load varies with the square of velocity, then it's possible that 85mph is more like 60% power.. Bill Mileski 701 912S 140 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197837#197837 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith701801-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith701801-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith701801-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith701801-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.