Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:06 AM - 701 or 750 ordering, or firewall forward first, or just buy mine! (Brett Hanley)
2. 08:11 AM - Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? (flicka750)
3. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? (Roy Szarafinski)
4. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? (Roy Szarafinski)
5. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? (Bob Sturgis)
6. 10:43 AM - Morning Flight (Dan)
7. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? (Randall J. Hebert)
8. 11:02 AM - Dealing with Zenith - My Experience (George Race)
9. 11:47 AM - Re: Dealing with Zenith - My Experience (Iberplanes IGL)
10. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? (Joemotis@aol.com)
11. 01:32 PM - Re: Dealing with Zenith - My Experience (n801bh@netzero.com)
12. 03:14 PM - Re: Annual Condition Inspection (Tommy Walker)
13. 03:27 PM - Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? (kmccune)
14. 03:33 PM - Re: Morning Flight (kmccune)
15. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: Annual Condition Inspection (Joemotis@aol.com)
16. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? (NYTerminat@aol.com)
17. 07:20 PM - CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas (flicka750)
18. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: Annual Condition Inspection (NYTerminat@aol.com)
19. 07:42 PM - Re: STOL landings in a 701 (flicka750)
20. 08:04 PM - Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas (Art Gibeaut)
21. 08:38 PM - Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas (Joemotis@aol.com)
22. 08:47 PM - Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas (Joemotis@aol.com)
23. 08:48 PM - Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas (Cory Emberson)
24. 08:56 PM - Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas (Cory Emberson)
25. 09:19 PM - Re: Dealing with Zenith - My Experience (JohnDRead@aol.com)
26. 10:08 PM - Re: STOL landings in a 701 (sonar1@cox.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 701 or 750 ordering, or firewall forward first, or |
just buy mine!
A great dilemma.- Why not just build the firewall forward first.- There
is plenty of information on the fire wall forward especially if you are go
ing to use a Corvair.- By the time the kits come out you will be half way
done.
-
A second option is just send me the 20K and I will give you my flying 701.
That way you can fly all winter instead of worrying about getting your kit
:-).
-
Brett Hanley
Philadelphia , PA
-
-
In the case of the 750 do you order buy the piece 'avail by xmas' today, at
1/2
down in CASH? Or do you just pay them $10k cash ( 1/2 750 full kit ), and w
ait
for them to ship you the full kit? In a year? Or do they ship the component
s
as ready? But you pay for each shipment, or do they?
Again I have got NONE of these questions answered.
-
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? |
Keep asking. It makes for funny reading or should I say ,,,,,,,,repeating.
:)
***
Let's address the basics; You say "I don't understand why you have a hard time,
getting info from zenith". Nobody ever said zenith was known for customer-service.
I know from personal experience from calling and/or emailing that my email
never get returned ( info@zenair.com ), and that when I call its always some
old gal that is hard of hearing.
Perhaps I would be asking pre-sales questions to support@zenair.com, or better
yet a real person. Why doesn't someone here post some real email addresses of
some real people that will answer questions.
I know from talking to follks at the EAA show in Arlington, WA this last month
from QSP in No-CAL that zen is swamped with Euro orders.
Regarding you paying the entire $20k up front, and waiting for your order. You
still didn't answer the question, when they ship the wings are they going to charge
$300? Then another $300 when they ship the tail? Then another $400 when
they ship the fuselage?
Paying someone $20k up front cash, that you don't know, is a very risky biz proposition,
Zen we are led to believe is quite strong, their terms are explicit
50% cash up front for an order. I'm sure if you want to pay more they'll take
it.
I have had the order for the CH-750 plans for a month now, and they're telling
me November for the plans, and the same for the wings. I learned that when the
told me the rudder was the same. Since then I have never ever gotten another
question answered.
My guess is you have to know someone at Zenith, or a secret hand-shake, or secret
email address.
Given their are so many alleged zen insiders in this forum, why doesn't someone
post an "Idiots guide to getting information from Zenith" [ names, email addresses,
...]
I have noticed that the CH-750 website has been changing the last week, they have
pulled stuff off. Most of the links take you to CH-701 stuff.
The people at QSP people at EAA-Arlington told me that the same people in the Philippines
that were doing vans QB were doing that for Zenith, but that Zen had
got pushed to the back of the queue, and thus was going elsewhere. That could
be what your talking about. I live near Van's, I looked at some of the QB's
just for the hell, They have piles to the ceiling of them at their factory. I
wasn't that impressed with the flush riveting that said, given that zen is pull-rivet
its different, I have never seen a zen QB. My hunch is that SA quality
could be worse as these new have even less experience basically Van's taught
the people in Philippines how to build QB's, but they have so much work, Zenith
got pushed out.
I'm just mentioning QB because you are, I HAVE NO INTENTION BUYING of a QB.
Let's take the last answer, "if your not happy move on". Well zenith doesn't answer
questions, and you did answer a few. Basically you told me that you have
paid 100% of ASK PRICE, and your going to sit like a good pup and wait for Uncle
Heintz to ship your toys when they're good & ready.
Regarding 'moving on', they say that kitfox is gone, and so are most KB's dying.
One of the MAJOR reasons for doing a KB ( kitbuild ) is you can get a new wing
or component should you destroy it, and a old cessna or piper might cost a
fortune for a component. Thus its essential find a long-term trusted vendor of
KB's that's going to be around.
"If your not happy with the answers" ... Well you really are the first and only
answer. Am I 'happy' with your answer? To me that's a silly assertion, folks
here allege to know something of the subject matter. Everyone here is afraid to
say what they think, and I'm sure 90% who read are reading for entertainment
value. To me throwing down $10k-$20K cash to an unknown company in Mexico, MO
is a big gamble. To me its essential to ask questions. To me the release of the
750 is like the 801, how was that for the first adopters??
Answers don't make me happy. I don't like to waste my time. After calling the Zenith
mainline and not getting answers, then you go to forums, ... In the RV world
there are 100's build-log websites, where you can email directly to a builder,
and get real info about a company. In the Zenith world, it appears that
MOST builders aren't HTML/HTTP geeks, which means is there are very few websites
that contain good technical information, ran by a person who knows their stuff,
and thinks like an engineer, because they are an engineer.
"No questions needed, the facts on the info sheet" that's a recurring theme here,
'no questions needed' just EAT the SLOP in front of you, and be a good camper,
otherwise Uncle-Heintz might send you off to purgatory. There are all kinds
of people. Too many of these happy clubs become a family, and the family's gatekeepers
protects the family from outsiders, who just might ask tough questions.
Reading your response, it sounds like the ONLY reason that your going with the
CH-750 is because its a bigger more comfy plane. Comfort to me is the last thing
on the mission list, I think we all agree the CH-7XX is not a x-country plane.
***
Keep asking. It makes for funny reading or should I say ,,,,,,,,repeating.
:)
***
Yes, it is rather funny. Getting information is like pulling teeth. It's human
nature to take the easy route, a recurring theme here is Don't Think, don't use
your head, don't ask questions, just trust Uncle Heintz. ;)
I'm expecting any day now to be told that ZenAir consumers are a family like Scientology,
or some other cultural sociological phenomenon in American History.
Just roll the dice, and pick one of 3 wonder planes by Uncle-H, then Just roll
the dice, and pick one of a dozen wonderful engines, you can't go wrong. Then
when your done roll the dice again, build another.
bobefx(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> do not archive
> I payed for the complete kit up front and at this point the first shipment,
most likely wings and all related parts, is scheduled for shipment about the first
of November. It will take time to build the wings and I will not have to
store all the other parts till needed.
> I have a 601xl about 80% and plan to work on both as the time. Vary little left
on the 601 by the time the 750 parts get here. I have a jab 3300 in the 601
and plan to use the same in the 750. I had planed to build a 701 but at 6'4",
240 lbs. with a long torso the 701 did not fit well. Could have made it work
but the 750 came just at the right time for me. No questions needed, the facts
on the info sheet and a talk with Roger at the factory and I was sold. It is
made for the larger pilot and a bigger power plant. Just right. And still LSA.
> I do not know why you are having such a bad time getting info from Zenith.
Every time I call I get all the help I need, and all my questions answered.
> There are some unknown, do to the fact that the 750 is just coming on line.
Zenith cant control all the aspects of the launch, such as printers, and other
sub contractors, but they do there best and get thing to you as soon as possible.
> I have had some issues with the QB kit, but that is quality control from the
builders in Columbia (sp) South America. Not the Philippines.
> Buy the kit that fits your needs, and get on with it. If you are not happy with
the answers you are getting from Zenith and this board then move on and find
another kit co. If you are not happy now you never will be, no matter how good
the kit, the company, or the aircraft.
>
> Bobefx
>
>
> ---
--------
flicka750(AT)gmail
EINSTEIN:"Common sense is the accumulated prejudices before the age of 18"
TWAIN: "Intercourse is life's most over-rated pleasure, defecation is life's
most under-rated pleasure" - Letter's From Earth
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0667#200667
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? |
Yikes, the cat is out of the bag, we were sworn to secrecy, some one has revealed
the conspiracy in spite of the implant and daily doses of kool-aid, lucky
for us the truth ring we were all issued upon initiation will identify the the
poor soul when we next gather at stonehenge, I just hope the mind wipe will be
effective, if we can contain the problem ourselves perhaps we can avoid bringing
in the Iluminati. Until then I think an emergency meeting of the grand keepers
is in order, and remember don't use your real name or e-mil address.
signed Flickoff752
----- Original Message ----
From: flicka750 <flicka750@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:10:58 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering?
I'm expecting any day now to be told that ZenAir consumers are a family like Scientology,
or some other cultural sociological phenomenon in American History.
Just roll the dice, and pick one of 3 wonder planes by Uncle-H, then Just roll
the dice, and pick one of a dozen wonderful engines, you can't go wrong. Then
when your done roll the dice again, build another.
"No questions needed, the facts on the info sheet" that's a recurring theme here,
'no questions needed' just EAT the SLOP in front of you, and be a good camper,
otherwise Uncle-Heintz might send you off to purgatory. There are all kinds
of people. Too many of these happy clubs become a family, and the family's gatekeepers
protects the family from outsiders, who just might ask tough questions.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? |
DANG I meant to send that last message to the Blade and Circle secret, clandestine,
under the radar, plans thumping society for the technically challenged zen
worshiping, rivet popping, dyslexic, kindergarten educated technical review
board. OOPS. Am I bad or what?
flickoff752
----- Original Message ----
From: Roy Szarafinski <rvickski@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:48:47 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering?
Yikes, the cat is out of the bag, we were sworn to secrecy, some one has revealed
the conspiracy in spite of the implant and daily doses of kool-aid, lucky
for us the truth ring we were all issued upon initiation will identify the the
poor soul when we next gather at stonehenge, I just hope the mind wipe will be
effective, if we can contain the problem ourselves perhaps we can avoid bringing
in the Iluminati. Until then I think an emergency meeting of the grand keepers
is in order, and remember don't use your real name or e-mil address.
signed Flickoff752
----- Original Message ----
From: flicka750 <flicka750@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:10:58 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering?
I'm expecting any day now to be told that ZenAir consumers are a family like Scientology,
or some other cultural sociological phenomenon in American History.
Just roll the dice, and pick one of 3 wonder planes by Uncle-H, then Just roll
the dice, and pick one of a dozen wonderful engines, you can't go wrong. Then
when your done roll the dice again, build another.
"No questions needed, the facts on the info sheet" that's a recurring theme here,
'no questions needed' just EAT the SLOP in front of you, and be a good camper,
otherwise Uncle-Heintz might send you off to purgatory. There are all kinds
of people. Too many of these happy clubs become a family, and the family's gatekeepers
protects the family from outsiders, who just might ask tough questions.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? |
Ok so I only put down 50% . I talk to Roger. I get answers. I understand ho
w launching a new product can be slow and does not come all at once. I know
it is a good product. I know they have been around a long time. I know I g
et parts when I need them, if I make a mistake or a minor part is missing.
I am not an insider, I do not live close to the factory, and I do not have
what you would call friend in the co. -And I know you will never be happy
and are just taking up space on this site. So move on, and stop taking up
space and talking out of that orifice you sit on.=0A-=0Ado not archive=0A
=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: flicka750 <flicka750@gmail.com
>=0ATo: zenith701801-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:
10:58 AM=0ASubject: Zenith701801-List: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering?
.com>=0A=0AKeep asking. It makes for funny reading or should I say ,,,,,,,,
repeating. =0A:)=0A=0A***=0A=0ALet's address the basics; You say "I don't u
nderstand why you have a hard time, getting info from zenith". Nobody ever
said zenith was known for customer-service. I know from personal experience
from calling and/or emailing that my email never get returned ( info@zenai
r.com ), and that when I call its always some old gal that is hard of heari
ng.=0A=0APerhaps I would be asking pre-sales questions to support@zenair.co
m, or better yet a real person. Why doesn't someone here post some real ema
il addresses of some real people that will answer questions.=0A=0AI know fr
om talking to follks at the EAA show in Arlington, WA this last month from
QSP in No-CAL that zen is swamped with Euro orders.=0A=0ARegarding you payi
ng the entire $20k up front, and waiting for your order. You still didn't a
nswer the question, when they ship the wings are they going to charge $300?
Then another $300 when they ship the tail? Then another $400 when they shi
p the fuselage?=0A=0APaying someone $20k up front cash, that you don't know
, is a very risky biz proposition, Zen we are led to believe is quite stron
g, their terms are explicit 50% cash up front for an order. I'm sure if you
want to pay more they'll take it.=0A=0AI have had the order for the CH-750
plans for a month now, and they're telling me November for the plans, and
the same for the wings. I learned that when the told me the rudder was the
same. Since then I have never ever gotten another question answered.=0A=0AM
y guess is you have to know someone at Zenith, or a secret hand-shake, or s
ecret email address.=0A=0AGiven their are so many alleged zen insiders in t
his forum, why doesn't someone post an "Idiots guide to getting information
from Zenith" [ names, email addresses, ...]=0A=0AI have noticed that the C
H-750 website has been changing the last week, they have pulled stuff off.
Most of the links take you to CH-701 stuff.=0A=0AThe people at QSP people a
t EAA-Arlington told me that the same people in the Philippines that were d
oing vans QB were doing that for Zenith, but that Zen had got pushed to the
back of the queue, and thus was going elsewhere. That could be what your t
alking about. I live near Van's, I looked at some of the QB's just for the
hell, They have piles to the ceiling of them at their factory.- I wasn't
that impressed with the flush riveting that said, given that zen is pull-ri
vet its different, I have never seen a zen QB. My hunch is that SA quality
could be worse as these new have even less experience basically Van's taugh
t the people in Philippines how to build QB's, but they have so much work,
Zenith got pushed out.=0A=0AI'm just mentioning QB because you are, I HAVE
NO INTENTION BUYING of a QB.=0A=0ALet's take the last answer, "if your not
happy move on". Well zenith doesn't answer questions, and you did answer a
few. Basically you told me that you have paid 100% of ASK PRICE, and your g
oing to sit like a good pup and wait for Uncle Heintz to ship your toys whe
n they're good & ready.=0A=0ARegarding 'moving on', they say that kitfox is
gone, and so are most KB's dying. One of the MAJOR reasons for doing a KB
( kitbuild ) is you can get a new wing or component should you destroy it,
and a old cessna or piper might cost a fortune for a component. Thus its es
sential find a long-term trusted vendor of KB's that's going to be around.
=0A=0A"If your not happy with the answers" ... Well you really are the firs
t and only answer. Am I 'happy' with your answer? To me that's a silly asse
rtion, folks here allege to know something of the subject matter. Everyone
here is afraid to say what they think, and I'm sure 90% who read are readin
g for entertainment value. To me throwing down $10k-$20K cash to an unknown
company in Mexico, MO is a big gamble. To me its essential to ask question
s. To me the release of the 750 is like the 801, how was that for the first
adopters??=0A=0AAnswers don't make me happy. I don't like to waste my time
. After calling the Zenith mainline and not getting answers, then you go to
forums, ... In the RV world there are 100's build-log websites, where you
can email directly to a builder, and get real info about a company. In the
Zenith world, it appears that MOST builders aren't HTML/HTTP geeks, which m
eans is there are very few websites that contain good technical information
, ran by a person who knows their stuff, and thinks like an engineer, becau
se they are an engineer.=0A=0A"No questions needed, the facts on the info s
heet" that's a recurring theme here, 'no questions needed' just EAT the SLO
P in front of you, and be a good camper, otherwise Uncle-Heintz might send
you off to purgatory. There are all kinds of people. Too many of these happ
y clubs become a family, and the family's gatekeepers protects the family f
rom outsiders, who just might ask tough questions.=0A=0AReading your respon
se, it sounds like the ONLY reason that your going with the CH-750 is becau
se its a bigger more comfy plane. Comfort to me is the last thing on the mi
ssion list, I think we all agree the CH-7XX is not a x-country plane.=0A=0A
***=0A=0AKeep asking. It makes for funny reading or should I say ,,,,,,,,re
peating. =0A:)=0A=0A***=0A=0AYes, it is rather funny. Getting information i
s like pulling teeth. It's human nature to take the easy route, a recurring
theme here is Don't Think, don't use your head, don't ask questions, just
trust Uncle Heintz. ;) =0A=0AI'm expecting any day now to be told that ZenA
ir consumers are a family like Scientology, or some other cultural sociolog
ical phenomenon in American History. Just roll the dice, and pick one of 3
wonder planes by Uncle-H, then Just roll the dice, and pick one of a dozen
wonderful engines, you can't go wrong. Then when your done roll the dice ag
ain, build another.=0A=0A=0A=0Abobefx(at)yahoo.com wrote:=0A> do not archiv
e=0A>- I payed for the complete kit up front and at this point the first
shipment, most likely wings and all related parts, is scheduled for shipmen
t about the first of November. It will take time to build the wings and I w
ill not have to store all the other parts till needed.=0A>- I have a 601x
l about 80% and plan to work on both as the time. Vary little left on the 6
01 by the time the 750 parts get here. I have a jab 3300 in the 601 and pla
n to use the same in the 750. I had planed to build a 701 but at 6'4", 240
lbs. with a long- torso the 701 did not fit well. Could have made it work
but the 750 came just at the right time for me. No questions needed, the f
acts on the info sheet and a talk with Roger at the factory and I was sold.
It is made for the larger pilot and a bigger power plant. Just right. And
still LSA.=0A>- I do not know why you are having such a bad time getting
info from Zenith.- Every time I call I get all the help I need, and all m
y questions answered.=0A>- There are some unknown, do to the fact that th
e 750 is just coming on line. Zenith cant control all the aspects of the la
unch, such as printers, and other sub contractors, but they do there best a
nd get thing to you as soon as possible. =0A>- I have had some issues wit
h the QB kit, but that is quality control from- the builders in Columbia
(sp) South America. Not the Philippines. =0A>- Buy the kit that fits your
needs, and get on with it. If you are not happy with the answers you are g
etting from Zenith and this board then move on and find another kit co. If
you are not happy now you never will be, no matter how good the kit, the co
mpany, or the aircraft.=0A>- =0A>- Bobefx=0A> =0A>- =0A>- ---=0A=0A
=0A--------=0Aflicka750(AT)gmail=0AEINSTEIN:"Common sense is the accum
ulated prejudices before the age of 18"=0ATWAIN: "Intercourse is
life's most over-rated pleasure, defecation is life's most under-rated plea
sure" - Letter's From Earth=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:
=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0667#200667=0A=0A=0A
-========================
Message 6
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This morning I took off from my home strip about 8 am for a short flight
before heading off to work. The wind was calm and the takeoff short as
usual. On climbing to altitude, I noticed my airspeed was 80 mph but
ground speed was 110 mph. I did a series of landings at a neighboring
airport where the surface winds were light. Going back home, the
tailwind I had earlier was now a headwind of 30 mph so this slowed my
progress considerably.
On reaching home, the no wind condition on my runway had turned into a
20 mph wind with a 20 degree crosswind component. The tall trees at the
upwind end of the runway were shaking so I knew this was going to be a
challenge with my narrow runway. I lined up on final and fought the
turbulence trying to keep the nose centered on the runway. Once over
the almond trees on the south end of the runway, I cut the throttle,
lifted the nose slightly and let it settle in. No problem. God I love
this airplane!
Dan Wilde
Do not archive.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? |
You are correct Bob. I just realized who this flicka fellow is
He is an insurgent from the old matronics list (circa 601) sent to
disrupt the Force in this great 701801 list.
I really didn't start posting here until I actually had built a few
pieces.
Now I find the list Most helpful save one or two comments.
Last flicka I knew was a horse.
Randall J Hebert
Tail and one wing done 2nd wing 90%
N7701P Reserved
Absolutely
Do Not Archive
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Sturgis
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering?
Ok so I only put down 50% . I talk to Roger. I get answers. I understand
how launching a new product can be slow and does not come all at once. I
know it is a good product. I know they have been around a long time. I
know I get parts when I need them, if I make a mistake or a minor part
is missing. I am not an insider, I do not live close to the factory, and
I do not have what you would call friend in the co. And I know you will
never be happy and are just taking up space on this site. So move on,
and stop taking up space and talking out of that orifice you sit on.
do not archive
----- Original Message ----
From: flicka750 <flicka750@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:10:58 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering?
<flicka750@gmail.com>
Keep asking. It makes for funny reading or should I say
,,,,,,,,repeating.
:)
***
Let's address the basics; You say "I don't understand why you have a
hard time, getting info from zenith". Nobody ever said zenith was known
for customer-service. I know from personal experience from calling
and/or emailing that my email never get returned ( info@zenair.com ),
and that when I call its always some old gal that is hard of hearing.
Perhaps I would be asking pre-sales questions to support@zenair.com, or
better yet a real person. Why doesn't someone here post some real email
addresses of some real people that will answer questions.
I know from talking to follks at the EAA show in Arlington, WA this last
month from QSP in No-CAL that zen is swamped with Euro orders.
Regarding you paying the entire $20k up front, and waiting for your
order. You still didn't answer the question, when they ship the wings
are they going to charge $300? Then another $300 when they ship the
tail? Then another $400 when they ship the fuselage?
Paying someone $20k up front cash, that you don't know, is a very risky
biz proposition, Zen we are led to believe is quite strong, their terms
are explicit 50% cash up front for an order. I'm sure if you want to pay
more they'll take it.
I have had the order for the CH-750 plans for a month now, and they're
telling me November for the plans, and the same for the wings. I learned
that when the told me the rudder was the same. Since then I have never
ever gotten another question answered.
My guess is you have to know someone at Zenith, or a secret hand-shake,
or secret email address.
Given their are so many alleged zen insiders in this forum, why doesn't
someone post an "Idiots guide to getting information from Zenith" [
names, email addresses, ...]
I have noticed that the CH-750 website has been changing the last week,
they have pulled stuff off. Most of the links take you to CH-701 stuff.
The people at QSP people at EAA-Arlington told me that the same people
in the Philippines that were doing vans QB were doing that for Zenith,
but that Zen had got pushed to the back of the queue, and thus was going
elsewhere. That could be what your talking about. I live near Van's, I
looked at some of the QB's just for the hell, They have piles to the
ceiling of them at their factory. I wasn't that impressed with the
flush riveting that said, given that zen is pull-rivet its different, I
have never seen a zen QB. My hunch is that SA quality could be worse as
these new have even less experience basically Van's taught the people in
Philippines how to build QB's, but they have so much work, Zenith got
pushed out.
I'm just mentioning QB because you are, I HAVE NO INTENTION BUYING of a
QB.
Let's take the last answer, "if your not happy move on". Well zenith
doesn't answer questions, and you did answer a few. Basically you told
me that you have paid 100% of ASK PRICE, and your going to sit like a
good pup and wait for Uncle Heintz to ship your toys when they're good &
ready.
Regarding 'moving on', they say that kitfox is gone, and so are most
KB's dying. One of the MAJOR reasons for doing a KB ( kitbuild ) is you
can get a new wing or component should you destroy it, and a old cessna
or piper might cost a fortune for a component. Thus its essential find a
long-term trusted vendor of KB's that's going to be around.
"If your not happy with the answers" ... Well you really are the first
and only answer. Am I 'happy' with your answer? To me that's a silly
assertion, folks here allege to know something of the subject matter.
Everyone here is afraid to say what they think, and I'm sure 90% who
read are reading for entertainment value. To me throwing down $10k-$20K
cash to an unknown company in Mexico, MO is a big gamble. To me its
essential to ask questions. To me the release of the 750 is like the
801, how was that for the first adopters??
Answers don't make me happy. I don't like to waste my time. After
calling the Zenith mainline and not getting answers, then you go to
forums, ... In the RV world there are 100's build-log websites, where
you can email directly to a builder, and get real info about a company.
In the Zenith world, it appears that MOST builders aren't HTML/HTTP
geeks, which means is there are very few websites that contain good
technical information, ran by a person who knows their stuff, and thinks
like an engineer, because they are an engineer.
"No questions needed, the facts on the info sheet" that's a recurring
theme here, 'no questions needed' just EAT the SLOP in front of you, and
be a good camper, otherwise Uncle-Heintz might send you off to
purgatory. There are all kinds of people. Too many of these happy clubs
become a family, and the family's gatekeepers protects the family from
outsiders, who just might ask tough questions.
Reading your response, it sounds like the ONLY reason that your going
with the CH-750 is because its a bigger more comfy plane. Comfort to me
is the last thing on the mission list, I think we all agree the CH-7XX
is not a x-country plane.
***
Keep asking. It makes for funny reading or should I say
,,,,,,,,repeating.
:)
***
Yes, it is rather funny. Getting information is like pulling teeth. It's
human nature to take the easy route, a recurring theme here is Don't
Think, don't use your head, don't ask questions, just trust Uncle
Heintz. ;)
I'm expecting any day now to be told that ZenAir consumers are a family
like Scientology, or some other cultural sociological phenomenon in
American History. Just roll the dice, and pick one of 3 wonder planes by
Uncle-H, then Just roll the dice, and pick one of a dozen wonderful
engines, you can't go wrong. Then when your done roll the dice again,
build another.
bobefx(at)yahoo.com <http://yahoo.com/> wrote:
> do not archive
> I payed for the complete kit up front and at this point the first
shipment, most likely wings and all related parts, is scheduled for
shipment about the first of November. It will take time to build the
wings and I will not have to store all the other parts till needed.
> I have a 601xl about 80% and plan to work on both as the time. Vary
little left on the 601 by the time the 750 parts get here. I have a jab
3300 in the 601 and plan to use the same in the 750. I had planed to
build a 701 but at 6'4", 240 lbs. with a long torso the 701 did not fit
well. Could have made it work but the 750 came just at the right time
for me. No questions needed, the facts on the info sheet and a talk with
Roger at the factory and I was sold. It is made for the larger pilot and
a bigger power plant. Just right. And still LSA.
> I do not know why you are having such a bad time getting info from
Zenith. Every time I call I get all the help I need, and all my
questions answered.
> There are some unknown, do to the fact that the 750 is just coming on
line. Zenith cant control all the aspects of the launch, such as
printers, and other sub contractors, but they do there best and get
thing to you as soon as possible.
> I have had some issues with the QB kit, but that is quality control
from the builders in Columbia (sp) South America. Not the Philippines.
> Buy the kit that fits your needs, and get on with it. If you are not
happy with the answers you are getting from Zenith and this board then
move on and find another kit co. If you are not happy now you never will
be, no matter how good the kit, the company, or the aircraft.
>
> Bobefx
>
>
> ---
--------
flicka750(AT)gmail
EINSTEIN:"Common sense is the accumulated prejudices before the age
of 18"
TWAIN: "Intercourse is life's most over-rated pleasure, defecation
is life's most
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 8
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| Subject: | Dealing with Zenith - My Experience |
Let me start by saying that I have absolutely no connection to anyone at
Zenith.
Three years ago I visited the Zenith plant in Mexico MO and took my first
ride in a 701. I was greatly impressed with the 701, pilot Roger, and
everyone that I talked with at the plant. I actually "wandered" around in
the production area taking pictures and talking to everyone for over two
hours. There was not one person that did not stop what they were doing and
explain in detail their job and where their piece fit into the airplane. I
was shown the CNC press doing pilot holes. I watched fuel tank welding by a
very nice Lady who stopped to explain how she welded the aluminum filler
neck into place. I talked to several who were just bending and forming
metal, most by hand with wooden blocks and hammers. All in all it convinced
me that Zenith was going to be a company that would be easy to deal with and
who cared greatly about the quality of their products and service to
customers.
Now three years later, and the proud owner of a flying CH701 I can say that
all of my expectations about dealing with Zenith have been met. Time and
time again, over the past three years, I either called or sent email with
questions and concerns as I ran into things that I did not full understand
or did not seem to make sense to me. Each and every time I either got to
someone on the phone who answered my questions, or received a return email
within 24 hours with a full explanation. Sometimes they even sent portions
of drawings with hand written notes, or at least one time, went out and took
a picture of a part on their 701 demo airplane and send it to me with an
explanation to answer my question.
I purchased my 701 in three "chunks" over the first year and a half. I was
always given an approximate shipping date and shipping costs. Each time
they beat their promised shipping schedule by days.
Why am I writing this, because I just finished reading email talking about
how hard it is to deal with Zenith. In the same batch of incoming email was
a very nice note from Shirley at Zenith. In part it said: "Thanks for
sharing your pictures and enjoy your flying." So if you are thinking of
starting a relationship with Zenith while building one of their airplanes,
don't worry, they really do care about and take care of their customers.
And as long as I am at the keyboard, I can say the same kind words about
Jabiru USA. Pete and Dana have always been right there for me. My Jabiur
2200a engine and FWF kit from them could not have turned out any better.
And one last comment. Please don't jump to conclusions about anything you
read on these Lists. Most here are extremely helpful, and good information
when you have a question is usually quickly given. It is very apparent that
there are some who seem to be bent on giving misleading information or just
giving opinions to see their words in print on the list.
Form YOUR own conclusions, based on YOUR experience and enjoy building and
flying your Zenith airplane.
George Race
N73EX Now Finished and Flying
www.mykitairplane.com/MyCH701
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Dealing with Zenith - My Experience |
Hello Gorge,
I have to admit that my experience with ZAC, living in Spain, not english
speaker, etc, is absolutely great. Caleb and Shirley are always willing to
help and to share their ideas when I have a question.
That company is outstanding !!
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? |
In a message dated 8/26/2008 8:12:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
flicka750@gmail.com writes:
I'm expecting any day now to be told that ZenAir consumers are a family like
Scientology, or some other cultural sociological phenomenon in American
History. Just roll the dice, and pick one of 3 wonder planes by Uncle-H, then
Just roll the dice, and pick one of a dozen wonderful engines, you can't go
wrong. Then when your done roll the dice again, build another.
My opinion why Zenith does not respond to you is this; You are a World
Class Whiner. I have read every single response to your myriad of questions and
to me, it seems that most of the listers here have tried to give you
reasonable answers. Obviously, with the caliber of your questions, there is some
brain
function happening but you seem to think that demanding answers and having
an arrogant attitude is the way to get things done. Here is a suggestion, grow
up, work on your antagonistic attitude and build an RV instead.
Proud to sign my name,
Joe Motis
Do not archive
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dealing with Zenith - My Experience |
I concur 100 %. Zenith Aircraft is by far the best, most honest and frie
ndly bunch of people I have ever done business with.... I LOVE my toy,
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "George Race" <mykitairplane@mrrace.com> wrote:
Let me start by saying that I have absolutely no connection to anyone at
Zenith. Three years ago I visited the Zenith plant in Mexico MO and too
k my first ride in a 701. I was greatly impressed with the 701, pilot R
oger, and everyone that I talked with at the plant. I actually "wandere
d" around in the production area taking pictures and talking to everyone
for over two hours. There was not one person that did not stop what th
ey were doing and explain in detail their job and where their piece fit
into the airplane. I was shown the CNC press doing pilot holes. I watch
ed fuel tank welding by a very nice Lady who stopped to explain how she
welded the aluminum filler neck into place. I talked to several who wer
e just bending and forming metal, most by hand with wooden blocks and ha
mmers. All in all it convinced me that Zenith was going to be a company
that would be easy to deal with and who cared greatly about the quality
of their products and service to customers. Now three years later, and
the proud owner of a flying CH701 I can say that all of my expectations
about dealing with Zenith have been met. Time and time again, over the
past three years, I either called or sent email with questions and conce
rns as I ran into things that I did not full understand or did not seem
to make sense to me. Each and every time I either got to someone on the
phone who answered my questions, or received a return email within 24 h
ours with a full explanation. Sometimes they even sent portions of draw
ings with hand written notes, or at least one time, went out and took a
picture of a part on their 701 demo airplane and send it to me with an e
xplanation to answer my question. I purchased my 701 in three "chunks" o
ver the first year and a half. I was always given an approximate shippi
ng date and shipping costs. Each time they beat their promised shipping
schedule by days. Why am I writing this, because I just finished readin
g email talking about how hard it is to deal with Zenith. In the same b
atch of incoming email was a very nice note from Shirley at Zenith. I
n part it said: "Thanks for sharing your pictures and enjoy your flying
." So if you are thinking of starting a relationship with Zenith while
building one of their airplanes, don't worry, they really do care about
and take care of their customers. And as long as I am at the keyboard,
I can say the same kind words about Jabiru USA. Pete and Dana have alwa
ys been right there for me. My Jabiur 2200a engine and FWF kit from th
em could not have turned out any better. And one last comment. Please d
on't jump to conclusions about anything you read on these Lists. Most h
ere are extremely helpful, and good information when you have a question
is usually quickly given. It is very apparent that there are some who
seem to be bent on giving misleading information or just giving opinions
to see their words in print on the list. Form YOUR own conclusions, bas
ed on YOUR experience and enjoy building and flying your Zenith airplane
. George Race N73EX Now Finished and Flyingwww.mykitairplane
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
============
____________________________________________________________
Fly cheap! Click here for great airfare deals.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uHo5Be8svtZ8DIGo5W
xlzDaHyz8cAI4slqQXroodXbNIPKC/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Annual Condition Inspection |
Hi Bob,
I am going to find a good tuff truck tire and cut me out a couple of pieces of
material.
What did you cut the rubber with?
Was it a steel belted radial?
Tommy
NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:
> Tommy,
>
> I just replaced mine with pieces I cut out of a truck tire, this has been my
3rd time with pieces of rubber. I hoe this will be the final solution.
>
> Bob Spudis
> N701ZX/ 912S/ 160hrs many landings
>
--------
Tommy Walker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0760#200760
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? |
Yes but Flicka (the horse) was your friend ( ok I dated my self)
I have wondered if this person was disgruntled Zenith lister too!
Kevin
[quote="randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co"]Y
Last flicka I knew was a horse.
Randall J Hebert
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sturgis
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:30 PM
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering?
Ok so I only put down 50% . I talk to Roger. I get answers. I understand how launching
a new product can be slow and does not come all at once. I know it is
a good product. I know they have been around a long time. I know I get parts when
I need them, if I make a mistake or a minor part is missing. I am not an insider,
I do not live close to the factory, and I do not have what you would call
friend in the co. And I know you will never be happy and are just taking
up space on this site. So move on, and stop taking up space and talking out of
that orifice you sit on.
do not archive
----- Original Message ----
From: flicka750
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:10:58 AM
Subject: Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering?
Keep asking. It makes for funny reading or should I say ,,,,,,,,repeating.
:)
***
Let's address the basics; You say "I don't understand why you have a hard time,
getting info from zenith". Nobody ever said zenith was known for customer-service.
I know from personal experience from calling and/or emailing that my email
never get returned ( info@zenair.com (info@zenair.com) ), and that when I
call its always some old gal that is hard of hearing.
Perhaps I would be asking pre-sales questions to support@zenair.com (support@zenair.com),
or better yet a real person. Why doesn't someone here post some real
email addresses of some real people that will answer questions.
I know from talking to follks at the EAA show in Arlington, WA this last month
from QSP in No-CAL that zen is swamped with Euro orders.
Regarding you paying the entire $20k up front, and waiting for your order. You
still didn't answer the question, when they ship the wings are they going to
charge $300? Then another $300 when they ship the tail? Then another $400 when
they ship the fuselage?
Paying someone $20k up front cash, that you don't know, is a very risky biz proposition,
Zen we are led to believe is quite strong, their terms are explicit
50% cash up front for an order. I'm sure if you want to pay more they'll take
it.
I have had the order for the CH-750 plans for a month now, and they're telling
me November for the plans, and the same for the wings. I learned that when the
told me the rudder was the same. Since then I have never ever gotten another
question answered.
My guess is you have to know someone at Zenith, or a secret hand-shake, or secret
email address.
Given their are so many alleged zen insiders in this forum, why doesn't someone
post an "Idiots guide to getting information from Zenith" [ names, email addresses,
...]
I have noticed that the CH-750 website has been changing the last week, they have
pulled stuff off. Most of the links take you to CH-701 stuff.
The people at QSP people at EAA-Arlington told me that the same people in the
Philippines that were doing vans QB were doing that for Zenith, but that Zen had
got pushed to the back of the queue, and thus was going elsewhere. That could
be what your talking about. I live near Van's, I looked at some of the QB's
just for the hell, They have piles to the ceiling of them at their factory.
I wasn't that impressed with the flush riveting that said, given that zen is pull-rivet
its different, I have never seen a zen QB. My hunch is that SA quality
could be worse as these new have even less experience basically Van's taught
the people in Philippines how to build QB's, but they have so much work, Zenith
got pushed out.
I'm just mentioning QB because you are, I HAVE NO INTENTION BUYING of a QB.
Let's take the last answer, "if your not happy move on". Well zenith doesn't answer
questions, and you did answer a few. Basically you told me that you have
paid 100% of ASK PRICE, and your going to sit like a good pup and wait for Uncle
Heintz to ship your toys when they're good & ready.
Regarding 'moving on', they say that kitfox is gone, and so are most KB's dying.
One of the MAJOR reasons for doing a KB ( kitbuild ) is you can get a new wing
or component should you destroy it, and a old cessna or piper might cost a
fortune for a component. Thus its essential find a long-term trusted vendor of
KB's that's going to be around.
"If your not happy with the answers" ... Well you really are the first and only
answer. Am I 'happy' with your answer? To me that's a silly assertion, folks
here allege to know something of the subject matter. Everyone here is afraid
to say what they think, and I'm sure 90% who read are reading for entertainment
value. To me throwing down $10k-$20K cash to an unknown company in Mexico, MO
is a big gamble. To me its essential to ask questions. To me the release of
the 750 is like the 801, how was that for the first adopters??
Answers don't make me happy. I don't like to waste my time. After calling the
Zenith mainline and not getting answers, then you go to forums, ... In the RV
world there are 100's build-log websites, where you can email directly to a builder,
and get real info about a company. In the Zenith world, it appears that
MOST builders aren't HTML/HTTP geeks, which means is there are very few websites
that contain good technical information, ran by a person who knows their stuff,
and thinks like an engineer, because they are an engineer.
"No questions needed, the facts on the info sheet" that's a recurring theme here,
'no questions needed' just EAT the SLOP in front of you, and be a good camper,
otherwise Uncle-Heintz might send you off to purgatory. There are all kinds
of people. Too many of these happy clubs become a family, and the family's
gatekeepers protects the family from outsiders, who just might ask tough questions.
Reading your response, it sounds like the ONLY reason that your going with the
CH-750 is because its a bigger more comfy plane. Comfort to me is the last thing
on the mission list, I think we all agree the CH-7XX is not a x-country plane.
***
Keep asking. It makes for funny reading or should I say ,,,,,,,,repeating.
:)
***
Yes, it is rather funny. Getting information is like pulling teeth. It's human
nature to take the easy route, a recurring theme here is Don't Think, don't use
your head, don't ask questions, just trust Uncle Heintz. ;)
I'm expecting any day now to be told that ZenAir consumers are a family like Scientology,
or some other cultural sociological phenomenon in American History.
Just roll the dice, and pick one of 3 wonder planes by Uncle-H, then Just roll
the dice, and pick one of a dozen wonderful engines, you can't go wrong. Then
when your done roll the dice again, build another.
bobefx(at)yahoo.com (http://yahoo.com/) wrote:
> do not archive
> I payed for the complete kit up front and at this point the first shipment,
most likely wings and all related parts, is scheduled for shipment about the
first of November. It will take time to build the wings and I will not have to
store all the other parts till needed.
> I have a 601xl about 80% and plan to work on both as the time. Vary little
left on the 601 by the time the 750 parts get here. I have a jab 3300 in the 601
and plan to use the same in the 750. I had planed to build a 701 but at 6'4",
240 lbs. with a long torso the 701 did not fit well. Could have made it work
but the 750 came just at the right time for me. No questions needed, the facts
on the info sheet and a talk with Roger at the factory and I was sold. It
is made for the larger pilot and a bigger power plant. Just right. And still LSA.
> I do not know why you are having such a bad time getting info from Zenith.
Every time I call I get all the help I need, and all my questions answered.
> There are some unknown, do to the fact that the 750 is just coming on line.
Zenith cant control all the aspects of the launch, such as printers, and other
sub contractors, but they do there best and get thing to you as soon as possible.
> I have had some issues with the QB kit, but that is quality control from the
builders in Columbia (sp) South America. Not the Philippines.
> Buy the kit that fits your needs, and get on with it. If you are not happy
with the answers you are getting from Zenith and this board then move on and find
another kit co. If you are not happy now you never will be, no matter how
good the kit, the company, or the aircraft.
>
> Bobefx
>
>
> ---
--------
flicka750(AT)gmail
EINSTEIN:"Common sense is the accumulated prejudices before the age of 18"
TWAIN: "Intercourse is life's most over-rated pleasure, defecation is life's
most
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
0
>
1
>
2
>
3
>
4
>
5
>
6
>
7
>
8
>
9
> [b]
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0764#200764
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Morning Flight |
8)
Thanks for that! I need a little to feed on to keep me going while building sometimes.
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0766#200766
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Annual Condition Inspection |
A sabre saw with a medium blade works quite well, although the pieces that I
was cutting (roughly 4"X 4") were used as buffers on a Catapult to launch
melons!!! A piece of plywood backing secured through the sidewall with drywall
screws will allow a lot more creativity in your shape/design, though.
(Cutting through both at the same time and being patient)
Joe Motis
No Archivos Hombre
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 versus CH750 - Ordering? |
Hey Flickoff,
Some of us know a good thing when we see it. I bought a 701 without ever
flying in one, built it and am happily flying it.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/ 912S/ 160 happy hours
In a message dated 8/26/2008 12:49:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rvickski@yahoo.com writes:
I'm expecting any day now to be told that ZenAir consumers are a family like
Scientology, or some other cultural sociological phenomenon in American
History. Just roll the dice, and pick one of 3 wonder planes by Uncle-H, then
Just roll the dice, and pick one of a dozen wonderful engines, you can't go
wrong. Then when your done roll the dice again, build another.
"No questions needed, the facts on the info sheet" that's a recurring theme
here, 'no questions needed' just EAT the SLOP in front of you, and be a good
camper, otherwise Uncle-Heintz might send you off to purgatory. There are all
kinds of people. Too many of these happy clubs become a family, and the
family's gatekeepers protects the family from outsiders, who just might ask tough
questions.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 17
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| Subject: | CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas |
Well today I got email from Zenith. Imagine that! ;)
What I was told was that the drawings wouldn't be done until the end of the year,
thus I can assume that my CH-750 plans will not be available until post new-year.
I was also told that nobody knows anything;) Imagine that!
Seems like the wings might be available by the end the year, and maybe the whole
kit?
OK what follows is what I was told today by ZEN 8/26/2008
"The lead time for the wings is 15 weeks and that will place the order for December
and at that time it may be that the complete kit would be ready.
As this is a new aircraft and was just released we do not have everything available
and that is why we cannot answer all questions yet. The drawings have not
been completed and probably will not be ready till end of year. I am sorry
if this is not want you want to hear, but if you have further questions, let me
know."
15 weeks for wings, and maybe the whole?, I would bet a cold PBR that we'll not
see a whole until next summer.
The other day there was someone here saying that he ordered floats for his 701
last year, to delivered in May08, and still hasn't seen them, ...
Well my rudder is done, and I ordered the CH-750 plans over a month ago,
It really surprises me that companys do this, e.g. announce product so far before
availability. I know Van's is doing this with the RV-12 (LSA), where the wings
can only be ordered, and the rest who knows, and it was a long time ago, I
think they took 40 orders at the SUNnFUN, that's how long ago they have been
selling a plane that doesn't exist. ( Well except for prototype ).
The theory is normal biz, wouldn't do this, but I understand that the CH-701 is
back-ordered 3+ months because of tremendous demand from Europe. Basically they're
now charging a fortune to take-off & land at private/public strips, and
thus everyone wants a CH-701 so they can take off and land in their backyard.
Note having acreage in Europe is a big deal, so these are obviously wealth people
in Europe buying all these CH-701 kits.
Zenith is back-ordered either way, so its not like people waiting for CH-750's
is holding up 701 purchases, nobody is going to get their's tomorrow either way!
All I ever wanted to hear was the truth:>
Time goes quick, a mission without plans and information is not a mission.
***
Scratch building SR-71's since 1946.
--------
flicka750(AT)gmail
EINSTEIN:"Common sense is the accumulated prejudices before the age of 18"
TWAIN: "Intercourse is life's most over-rated pleasure, defecation is life's
most under-rated pleasure" - Letter's From Earth
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0814#200814
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Annual Condition Inspection |
Tommy,
Yes it was a steel belted tire, used a sawzall to get the chunk of tire
apart ad then used my bandsaw to cut to size and shape. Thanks for your reporting
on the subject.
Bob
In a message dated 8/26/2008 6:15:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
twalker@cableone.net writes:
Hi Bob,
I am going to find a good tuff truck tire and cut me out a couple of pieces
of material.
What did you cut the rubber with?
Was it a steel belted radial?
Tommy
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: STOL landings in a 701 |
This is one of the most interesting questions posted this month, and the poor bloke
didn't even get an answer, he was just told to go learn who Chris Desmond
learned from ...
Well I asked Chris the same question when he was at EAA Arlington last month. I
asked it another way, I told him I wanted to learn how to fly a 701/750 before
I finished mine.
He told me it was policy of QSP that people not be trained until their plane was
done, now I didn't say anything, but that sounded like malarkey I mean, why
can't a person get hours, and learn so they know where the heck they're going.
I can get use to anything, but some people really need to learn to fly these
things before they spend 1+ years, and $40k! I think its not asking too much to
fly a 701 before your fork over the time & money!
Ok, Now I'll answer the question from my humble opinion. All the flying that you
see is done BEHIND THE POWER CURVE.
When you say that you flair at 60mph that tells me your in a slow cruise, and not
behind-the-power curve.
Behind the power curve means that you have a high attack angle, very high, and
very near stall speed, which is 28mph ( or kts ), give yourself a 15% margin say
35mph would be slow-flight, very high attack, high RPM, lots of air going over
the rear stabilizer. BASICALLY YOUR FLYING A HELICOPTER, and your sitting
back in a couch.
So if it were me, and I wanted to learn to that stuff in the 701 STOL plane, I
would spend lots of time at a safe altitude ( >1500 ft ), and really learn how
it handles in slow flight. Then you'll be able to do the stuff you see the videos
at slow speed with those crazy angles of attack ( nose up ).
The slats on the CH750 don't really kick in until you have a very high angle of
attack, at that point your 'CL' lift coefficient is very high, at normal flat
cruise, the 'CL' is completely different. Heintz didn't invent the slat it has
been around forever. There is a lot of old literature on flying this class of
STOL. I saw some awhile back printed by the Australian AOPA equivalent, and
it was very interesting.
Now back to training, yes it would be nice to go to QSP and learn to fly a 701,
and have someone like Chris Desmond teach you to do what he does, sadly there
doesn't seem to be anyone doing this, and the folks at QSP are very busy. They
seem to be wanting to sell QB's, and I'm sure if you bought a QB from them,
they would sell you the 5+ hours of 701 training with a CFI.
Now could folks here provide a list of trainers for the 701? Probably only 1 or
2 in the USA.
The problem is insurance, as soon as you have a plane classified as a trainer,
the insurance is 10X, ok instead of $500/yr hull-only, your talking $5k or MORE.
So there are no trainers, or very few probably one in Mexico-MO, and one at QSP
and where else? There are probably a lot of CFI's for the 701, but nobody in
their right mind wants to pay the dual instruction insurance.
It's not just ZEN that has this problem, VANS has it also, there are only a few
RV-9's & 7's as tail-draggers in the country that have instructional insurance.
Thus the 1/2 dozen vans approved instructors have to meet all over the country
with students and use Van's planes for instruction. I think Vans charges $40/hr
for the plane, and the CFI's charge $120/hr. Not a bad racket. I don't know
the numbers for ZEN, because I couldn't get an answer. No surprise there.
[quote="lgold(at)quantum-associat"]Some of the videos on U-tube seem to show the
701 literally jumping into the sky and landing in a few plane lengths. I have
almost 100 hours in my new 701 and its time to learn how to improve my STOL
flying skills.
My 701 has a Rotax 100-HP engine with 3-blade Warpdrive prop. My CG is near the
back end of the range due to a BRS behind the engine compartment. I normally
flair at about 60-MPH a few feet up and use about 400 of runway. My 701 has
Quality Sport Planes 4-position flap control and I usually land with 10 or 15-degrees
of flap. (The device can provide up to 20-degrees of flap and is really
easy to use).
If you have practiced very short landings, please let me know what technique works
best. I would also like to know if any of you use flaps for take off and
what if any benefit this provides.
Thanks for the advice,Regards,
Les
N67MG
Petaluma Ca.
> [b]
--------
flicka750(AT)gmail
EINSTEIN:"Common sense is the accumulated prejudices before the age of 18"
TWAIN: "Intercourse is life's most over-rated pleasure, defecation is life's
most under-rated pleasure" - Letter's From Earth
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0821#200821
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas |
OK, now I get it, you've just discovered that the world does not revolve around
you and you're pissed. Give it a rest Dude. You may need the advice, guidance,
and help from some of the experienced builders you are irritating right now.
You may also need the help of the very good and patient folks at Zenith. Oh,
sorry, that does not matter to you because you are the Center of the Universe.
This is a builders forum, not a bitch session and most of us are not interested
in being your audience. Maybe you just are not cut out to be a builder. I can
tell you from my own building experience over the last year and a half, that
if you can't take the little bit of frustration you've experienced at this beginner's
stage, you will never be able to persevere long enough to get it built.
You've only just begun, and listen to yourself. Actually, I think you just enjoy
the controversey. My guess is that the building you describe is likely a figment
of your imagination, and you just like being obnoxious.
Have you considered electric trains as a hobby? That's on a different forum.
--- On Tue, 8/26/08, flicka750 <flicka750@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: flicka750 <flicka750@gmail.com>
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 9:20 PM
> "flicka750" <flicka750@gmail.com>
>
> Well today I got email from Zenith. Imagine that! ;)
>
> What I was told was that the drawings wouldn't be done
> until the end of the year, thus I can assume that my CH-750
> plans will not be available until post new-year. I was also
> told that nobody knows anything;) Imagine that!
>
> Seems like the wings might be available by the end the
> year, and maybe the whole kit?
>
> OK what follows is what I was told today by ZEN 8/26/2008
>
> "The lead time for the wings is 15 weeks and that will
> place the order for December and at that time it may be that
> the complete kit would be ready.
> As this is a new aircraft and was just released we do not
> have everything available and that is why we cannot answer
> all questions yet. The drawings have not been completed and
> probably will not be ready till end of year. I am sorry if
> this is not want you want to hear, but if you have further
> questions, let me know."
>
> 15 weeks for wings, and maybe the whole?, I would bet a
> cold PBR that we'll not see a whole until next summer.
>
> The other day there was someone here saying that he ordered
> floats for his 701 last year, to delivered in May08, and
> still hasn't seen them, ...
>
> Well my rudder is done, and I ordered the CH-750 plans over
> a month ago,
>
> It really surprises me that companys do this, e.g. announce
> product so far before availability. I know Van's is
> doing this with the RV-12 (LSA), where the wings can only be
> ordered, and the rest who knows, and it was a long time ago,
> I think they took 40 orders at the SUNnFUN, that's how
> long ago they have been selling a plane that doesn't
> exist. ( Well except for prototype ).
>
> The theory is normal biz, wouldn't do this, but I
> understand that the CH-701 is back-ordered 3+ months because
> of tremendous demand from Europe. Basically they're now
> charging a fortune to take-off & land at private/public
> strips, and thus everyone wants a CH-701 so they can take
> off and land in their backyard. Note having acreage in
> Europe is a big deal, so these are obviously wealth people
> in Europe buying all these CH-701 kits.
>
> Zenith is back-ordered either way, so its not like people
> waiting for CH-750's is holding up 701 purchases, nobody
> is going to get their's tomorrow either way!
>
> All I ever wanted to hear was the truth:>
>
> Time goes quick, a mission without plans and information is
> not a mission.
>
> ***
>
> Scratch building SR-71's since 1946.
>
> --------
> flicka750(AT)gmail
> EINSTEIN:"Common sense is the accumulated
> prejudices before the age of 18"
> TWAIN: "Intercourse is life's most over-rated
> pleasure, defecation is life's most under-rated
> pleasure" - Letter's From Earth
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0814#200814
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas |
In a message dated 8/26/2008 7:21:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
flicka750@gmail.com writes:
Scratch building SR-71's since 1946.
Hey, I guess we do have something in common (sic) my Pops had a Supervisor
named Kelly Johnson when he was working at Burbank Lockheed in 1951. This was
after my Dad got his degree at Northrop.
Flicka, now and forever, the only thing that comes to mind with any thing
that slimes from your mouth is what you do with a Booger.
Welcome to my SPAM list
Joe Motis
Archive??? No No NO
Screw off Ya phonie
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas |
In a message dated 8/26/2008 8:05:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
aagibeaut@yahoo.com writes:
Have you considered electric trains as a hobby?
Hey wait, I have electric trains too, and old tractors, and minibikes, and
parts of airplanes, and 289's that you can hear run and 4 WD that only run on
2...Old Diesels.. Hey.... They said their was no math.......
Do not archive cuz they might be on to us
Jo
Arizona, Alaska,California and as much as I hate to admit it, Texas
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas |
We're down 4-2 now
Joemotis@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 8/26/2008 7:21:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> flicka750@gmail.com writes:
>
> Scratch building SR-71's since 1946.
>
> Hey, I guess we do have something in common (sic) my Pops had a
> Supervisor named Kelly Johnson when he was working at Burbank Lockheed
> in 1951. This was after my Dad got his degree at Northrop.
>
> Flicka, now and forever, the only thing that comes to mind with any
> thing that slimes from your mouth is what you do with a Booger.
> Welcome to my SPAM list
>
> Joe Motis
>
> Archive??? No No NO
>
> Screw off Ya phonie
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> It's only a deal if it's where /you/ want to go. Find your travel deal
> *here*
> <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047>.
> *
>
>
> *
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: CH-750 Plans - Drawings After Xmas |
Oops - sorry, everyone. The Giants score from another message snuck into
the list!
(never mind and do not archive, please)
Cory Emberson wrote:
> <bootless@earthlink.net>
>
> We're down 4-2 now
>
> Joemotis@aol.com wrote:
>> In a message dated 8/26/2008 7:21:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> flicka750@gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Scratch building SR-71's since 1946.
>>
>> Hey, I guess we do have something in common (sic) my Pops had a
>> Supervisor named Kelly Johnson when he was working at Burbank
>> Lockheed in 1951. This was after my Dad got his degree at Northrop.
>>
>> Flicka, now and forever, the only thing that comes to mind with any
>> thing that slimes from your mouth is what you do with a Booger.
>> Welcome to my SPAM list
>>
>> Joe Motis
>>
>> Archive??? No No NO
>>
>> Screw off Ya phonie
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> It's only a deal if it's where /you/ want to go. Find your travel
>> deal *here*
>> <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047>.
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Dealing with Zenith - My Experience |
Well said George. Your experience parallels mine. The folk at Zenith are
great to work with.
John Read
Still building my 701
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: STOL landings in a 701 |
Hi Les:
I didn't reply in the beginning because of your cg. Don't know if my technique
would be safe.
I do not fly it behind the power curve as many do.
I approach the 701 at idle power and full flaps and at a speed of 50 mph. It is
quite controllable, but the descent rate is steep. If it looks like I am going
to overshoot, I just dive it down to my glide path, and pull up the nose. The
speed comes right back to 50. (Slowing down to lose altitude doesn't work).
There is very little excess energy, so you only get one chance at the flare, but
I have never had any problem except a slight tendency of a left yaw in the
flare which I can't explain.
Fred Sanford N9701 Rotax 80 hp.
2005 video at:
http://www.sonar100.com/stol701-1.wmv
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0848#200848
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