Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Authority (John Bolding)
2. 09:22 AM - Re: 25 hour oil filter check (txpilot)
3. 09:45 AM - Re: rotax certified (txpilot)
4. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: Increasing Registered Gross (JG)
5. 04:09 PM - Re: Increasing Registered Gross (kmccune)
6. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Increasing Registered Gross (JG)
7. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Increasing Registered Gross (JG)
8. 06:22 PM - Re: Increasing Registered Gross (kmccune)
9. 06:37 PM - I will be in northern Italy for two weeks, (kmccune)
10. 06:37 PM - Re: Re: Problems with riveting the 701 spars... (Ryan Vechinski)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Authority |
Here is a good place to start, LOTS of real world testing. If you spend a
little time doing some archive searching you will uncover an afternoon's
worth of reading on the subject as it has been flogged to death many time
here and on the combined list before the "Big Split".
Also LOTS of conversation on the subject on the yahoo group.
http://www.stolspeed.com/content.php
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "eightyknots" <scorchedenvelope@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 1:21 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Elevator Authority
> <scorchedenvelope@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi John,
>
> I was wondering about VGs. In a nutshell, what are the disadvantages of
> using them instead of slats?
>
> I was always under the impression that VGs saved fuel (having no slats on
> a CH 701 must save a few kg in weight). What then are the advantages if
> it's not a fuel saving?
>
> --------
> Hank
>
> I am looking for a STOL plane to build, starting in 2009. Will it be an
> ICP Savannah, a Zenith CH-701, an Aeroprakt Foxbat/A22/Valor, etc ... ?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2100#202100
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 25 hour oil filter check |
> Isn't there a magnetic plug in the side of the gear box that traps ferrous
> metal particles? I believe it is to be inspected at some periodic interval.
>
> -- Craig
>
According to Rotax, the mag plug is inspected before first engine start, within
the next 5 hours of operation (one time), and thence every oil change. Reference
SB-912-051.
If you'd like, here's the link for the service bulletin:
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d03993.pdf
Dan Ginty
N787DG
P.S. - You're right Dan W., pretty expensive but they do run good!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2157#202157
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax certified |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a certified Rotax can only have maintenance
signed off by a "Person approved by the respective Aviation Authority" (i.e.
- an A&P). All Rotax service bulletins are divided into "Certified" and "Non-Certified"
shown as 'UL'. The only difference between these certified and
non-certified SB's are in Section 3: Accomplishment. They add that work may
be accomplished by 'persons with adequate type-specific training'.
In other words, if you have a 912ULS (non-certified), you can do the work on it
and sign off on the work. It doesn't affect the certification because the engine
isn't certified to begin with. However, if you have a 912S, it is a certified
engine and all maintenance work must be accomplished in compliance with
appropriate maintenance manual and applicable SB's and be signed off by an A&P.
If you don't the engine loses its certification.
For the purpose of this forum, I can't see a reason to get a 912S over a 912ULS
since the CH701 is experimental anyway. The only advantage I could see is the
flight test time is reduced from 40 to 25 hours.
Dan Ginty
N787DG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2161#202161
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Increasing Registered Gross |
I have a lot of experience with both 701 and Savannah.
Yep, both are good aircraft.
I do lots of x-country, and the Savannah probably is a bit bumpier than
the 701 due the larger wing, certainly not a problem. The Savannah is
more directionally stable - I regularly cruise 3 hrs at a time without
touching the stick, just a bit of rudder pressure to hold course. The
Savannah VG is faster than a 701 with slats, but a 701 without slats is
faster than a Savannah.
On marginal strips or off-field I'll match a Savannah with a 701 anytime
- different but equal. Yes, the Savannah floats more, but this gives
really gentle, easy landings with good hold-off control right to
touch-down at idle speed. With 701 pretty much need to pull it on with
power all the way - that can be good to nail a spot, but also can go
wrong real quick if you get behind the drag/power curve.... To nail the
spot in the Savannah, keep the short final speed to no more than 40kts
and carry a full slip right into round-out. Just move the aiming point
back a bit to allow for the float and nail the spot just as well. With
such a slip approach you can see the touchdown point right to round-out,
whereas dragging on with power can't see anything, so I much prefer
it....
The Foxbat has sometimes been called, "...the rich man's Savannah..."
Much better cruise speed, but still really good STOL for all practical
purposes. Maybe not so suitable for really rough off-field... Big,
roomy cockpit with excellent visibility. A very nice aircraft, but lots
more costly than 701 or Savannah....
Tailwinds always,
JohnG
----- Original Message -----
From: Graeme
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Increasing Registered Gross
<graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
>From a friend who flys both reguarly
Both good aircraft.
Savanna is faster.
Not as good in bumpy air not as good on marginal strips.
You can nail the 701 the savanna some times tends to float on.
In australia Savanna much cheaper to purchase airframe kit.
No plans Built Savanna!!
Graemecns CH701 and scratch building a second
----- Original Message -----
From: "eightyknots" <scorchedenvelope@hotmail.com>
To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Increasing Registered Gross
> <scorchedenvelope@hotmail.com>
>
> When you registered the 701 at a higher gross weight, what was the
new
> vne, vfe and va?
>
> The Savannah has now come up in this thread. Has anyone ever seen an
> honest and reliable comparison between that aircraft and the CH 701?
>
> Similarly, has anyone seen (or done) a comparison between the
Aeroprakt
> A22 / Foxbat / Valor [take your pick - it has three names in
different
> parts of the world], which is sold as a STOL kit plane?
>
> --------
> Hank
>
> I am looking for a STOL plane to build, starting in 2009. Will it be
an
> ICP Savannah, a Zenith CH-701, an Aeroprakt Foxbat/A22/Valor, etc
... ?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2099#202099
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
6:03 PM
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Increasing Registered Gross |
OK, there you did it John [Wink]
Is the 701 in the below comparison a 701 VG? And is it a short or long wing 701?
You mentioned a slip so I am of course wondering if apples and apples or 701
slat and non-slip apples and VG Savannah slip-apples? :D
Sorry for the humor, will the 701 long wing VG match the spot landings over obstacles,
of a 701 with slats and a short wing?
PS
Starting on my wings so I have a big decision to make in this regard, very soon.
Kevin
apple(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> [b]On marginal strips or off-field I'll match a Savannah with a 701 anytime
- different but equal. Yes, the Savannah floats more, but this gives really
gentle, easy landings with good hold-off control right to touch-down at idle
speed. With 701 pretty much need to pull it on with power all the way - that
can be good to nail a spot, but also can go wrong real quick if you get behind
the drag/power curve.... To nail the spot in the Savannah, keep the short
final speed to no more than 40kts and carry a full slip right into round-out.
Just move the aiming point back a bit to allow for the float and nail the
spot just as well. With such a slip approach you can see the touchdown point
right to round-out, whereas dragging on with power can't see anything, so
I much prefer it...
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2202#202202
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Increasing Registered Gross |
Gday Kevin,
In that comparison I was imagining the 701 to be short wing with slats,
and the Savannah to be the VG model.
Yes, the 701 long wing with VGs will get down over an obstacle just as
well as a short wing with slats - at least so close the same that we
can't dependably measure any difference. The 701 long wing VG acts more
like the Savannah, so the technique is similar, and similar benefit of a
bit of float to make touchdown easier.
Slip is the key for a steep descent in any of them, and the 701 is
superior to the Savannah in that regard due to that all-flying rudder
that has heaps of power right down to nil airspeed. With that powerful
rudder, offset by equally powerful ailrerons, and that slab side, the
701 is the very best slipping aircraft ever. Slipping is by far the
best technique for a steeeep descent, even with slats on. Slipping
without slats is more steady and controllable, probably due to the slats
disrupting the airflow. Even with a 701 and slats I prefer a steep,
idle power, slipping approach for spot landings rather than dragging on
with power. You can see the touchdown point much better, and adjust the
amount of slip to hit that point. With the drag of those slats this is
a very steep approach and will lose speed instantly on roundout, so
better be rounding out at just the right height..... A bit alarming to
see the ground looming up like that, but very effective to get in really
short over obstacles, and I feel more comfortable than hanging on the
prop - no chance of getting behind the power curve, or falling short due
to sink, just release the slip and extend. The long wing VG is just a
whole lot easier to manage this maneuver.
Yes Kevin, I know I've long been promising some video to demonstrate
this. The decent footage that I had got recorded over with junk, and
need to do it over again....
JohnG
----- Original Message -----
From: kmccune
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 9:09 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Increasing Registered Gross
<kmccune@somtel.net>
OK, there you did it John [Wink]
Is the 701 in the below comparison a 701 VG? And is it a short or long
wing 701? You mentioned a slip so I am of course wondering if apples
and apples or 701 slat and non-slip apples and VG Savannah slip-apples?
:D
Sorry for the humor, will the 701 long wing VG match the spot landings
over obstacles, of a 701 with slats and a short wing?
PS
Starting on my wings so I have a big decision to make in this regard,
very soon.
Kevin
apple(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> [b]On marginal strips or off-field I'll match a Savannah with a 701
anytime - different but equal. Yes, the Savannah floats more, but this
gives really gentle, easy landings with good hold-off control right to
touch-down at idle speed. With 701 pretty much need to pull it on
with power all the way - that can be good to nail a spot, but also can
go wrong real quick if you get behind the drag/power curve.... To nail
the spot in the Savannah, keep the short final speed to no more than
40kts and carry a full slip right into round-out. Just move the aiming
point back a bit to allow for the float and nail the spot just as well.
With such a slip approach you can see the touchdown point right to
round-out, whereas dragging on with power can't see anything, so I much
prefer it...
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the
things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the
bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your
sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2202#202202
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Increasing Registered Gross |
Will the 701 long wing VG match the spot landings over obstacles, of a
701 with slats and a short wing?
Kevin
Gday Kevin,
In that comparison I was imagining the 701 to be short wing with slats,
and the Savannah to be the VG model.
Yes, the 701 long wing with VGs will get down over an obstacle just as
well as a short wing with slats - at least so close the same that we
can't dependably measure any difference. The 701 long wing VG acts more
like the Savannah, so the technique is similar, and similar benefit of a
bit of float to make touchdown easier.
Slip is the key for a steep descent in any of them, and the 701 is
superior to the Savannah in that regard due to that all-flying rudder
that has heaps of power right down to nil airspeed. With that powerful
rudder, offset by equally powerful ailrerons, and that slab side, the
701 is the very best slipping aircraft ever. Slipping is by far the
best technique for a steeeep descent, even with slats on. Slipping
without slats is more steady and controllable, probably due to the slats
disrupting the airflow. Even with a 701 and slats I prefer a steep,
idle power, slipping approach for spot landings rather than dragging on
with power. You can see the touchdown point much better, and adjust the
amount of slip to hit that point. With the drag of those slats this is
a very steep approach and will lose speed instantly on roundout, so
better be rounding out at just the right height..... A bit alarming to
see the ground looming up like that, but very effective to get in really
short over obstacles, and I feel more comfortable than hanging on the
prop - no chance of getting behind the power curve, or falling short due
to sink, just release the slip and extend. The long wing VG is just a
whole lot easier to manage this maneuver.
Yes Kevin, I know I've long been promising some video to demonstrate
this. The decent footage that I had got recorded over with junk, and
need to do it over again....
JohnG
----- Original Message -----
From: kmccune
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 9:09 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Increasing Registered Gross
<kmccune@somtel.net>
OK, there you did it John [Wink]
Is the 701 in the below comparison a 701 VG? And is it a short or long
wing 701? You mentioned a slip so I am of course wondering if apples
and apples or 701 slat and non-slip apples and VG Savannah slip-apples?
:D
Sorry for the humor, will the 701 long wing VG match the spot landings
over obstacles, of a 701 with slats and a short wing?
PS
Starting on my wings so I have a big decision to make in this regard,
very soon.
Kevin
apple(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> [b]On marginal strips or off-field I'll match a Savannah with a 701
anytime - different but equal. Yes, the Savannah floats more, but this
gives really gentle, easy landings with good hold-off control right to
touch-down at idle speed. With 701 pretty much need to pull it on
with power all the way - that can be good to nail a spot, but also can
go wrong real quick if you get behind the drag/power curve.... To nail
the spot in the Savannah, keep the short final speed to no more than
40kts and carry a full slip right into round-out. Just move the aiming
point back a bit to allow for the float and nail the spot just as well.
With such a slip approach you can see the touchdown point right to
round-out, whereas dragging on with power can't see anything, so I much
prefer it...
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the
things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the
bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your
sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2202#202202
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Increasing Registered Gross |
Thanks John and no worries about the videos here mate! 8)
PS Welcome home...long trip !
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2221#202221
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | I will be in northern Italy for two weeks, |
I will be in Levico Terme.
Anyone building or flying near there? I have September 13th and 14th off.
I'd love to come see your project or plane, lunch is on me...OK my company!
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2227#202227
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Problems with riveting the 701 spars... |
Thanks everyone for responding to my email. I appreciate all of the insigh
t. I have since drilled out my six or seven rivets=2C and the spar returne
d to straight. What I plan on doing next is to set up the spar so that my
rivet location will be slightly higher than the ends=2C and I will start wi
th one rivet in the center of the spar=2C but then will set a couple rivets
on each end. Then I will fill in between the rivets until the spar is riv
eted. Hopefully this will minimize any curving.
Someone mentioned that the hammer method for setting rivets is probably the
least desirable. Unfortunately=2C I do not have access to a rivet gun=2C
and I definitely don't have access to a power squeezer. Maybe someday. I
will let everyone know what happens with the spars=2C hopefully in the next
few weeks.
Ryan Vechinski
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...>
From: ekholmbk@lakedalelink.net> Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 20:52:30 -0700> To
: zenith701801-list@matronics.com> > --> Zenith701801-List message posted b
y: "bryanekholm" <ekholmbk@lakedalelink.net>> > I scratch built my spars us
ing a rivet gun and bucking bar and had the same curvature=2C probably abou
t an inch=2C when it was complete. I had the spar angles secured to the tab
le so I didn't even notice until I was done riveting. The blows of the rive
t gun probably distorts the aluminum a bit more that squeezing the rivets w
ould. Squeezing would be the way to go if you can borrow or purchase a pneu
matic squeezer. They are expensive.> > Bryan Ekholm> > --------> Bryan Ekho
lm> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/vie
========================> >
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|