Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:52 AM - Re: Slats (NYTerminat@aol.com)
2. 04:32 AM - Re: Re: A question of horsepower... (John Bolding)
3. 07:06 AM - Front wheel (Larry)
4. 07:06 AM - A question of horsepower (Joe Spencer)
5. 08:02 AM - Re: Front wheel (ricklach)
6. 08:14 AM - Re: A question of horsepower... (ricklach)
7. 08:20 AM - Re: Slats again (Gary Gower)
8. 09:06 AM - Nose Wheel (Joe Spencer)
9. 09:25 AM - Slats (Joe Spencer)
10. 11:02 AM - Re: A question of horsepower... (ronlee)
11. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: A question of horsepower... (n801bh@netzero.com)
12. 02:23 PM - Re: A question of horsepower... (jetboy)
13. 02:37 PM - Re: A question of horsepower... (pdknight)
14. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: A question of horsepower... (John Bolding)
15. 06:35 PM - Re: Slats (Larry)
16. 06:48 PM - Re: Slats (kmccune)
17. 10:08 PM - Re: Slats (JG)
18. 10:33 PM - Re: Re: A question of horsepower... (Gary Gower)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Joe sent me some pictures to try to post. I'll give it my best.
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 9/5/2008 12:05:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aa9td@verizon.net writes:
Joe can you send some pictures of how you cleaned up the the tail of the 701
Bob _aa9td@verizon.net_ (mailto:aa9td@verizon.net)
----- Original Message -----
From: _Joe Spencer_ (mailto:jpspencer@cableone.net)
(mailto:Zenith701801-List@matronics.com)
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Slats
>I would love to see some pictures of what you did and a >little more
conversation
>as to the results
I will send a few pics to somebody who already knows how to post them and
they can post them if they like. I'm a little short on time right now trying
to get things together for a trip...who wants them?
I tried to measure a speed gain with the tail cleanup and kept getting
varying results since it's so small it's hard for me to accurately measure...the
one that came up most often was 2.25 mph IIRC. Not definitive but indicative.
Call it a couple mph...not a whole lot but it adds up and it's near free and
did make it smoother. And it looks better to me and is light. As far as
cleanup on this plane being a waste of time goes...it's SO crudely done that it
can be easily improved. I never consider free speed/efficiency a waste,
personally.
Joe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: A question of horsepower... |
Ralph, Last time I "talked" with John Lowther he was building up another
Vair to reinstall in his 701, are you aware if he completed that
installation or not ?
Thanks, John
>
> What youAnother 701 here had a Corvair but replaced it with a Jabiru 2200
> as the Corvair proved too heavy and thirsty for 2 up and cross country.
>
> Ralph
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
As some of you know I am in the process of building a second 701. I am
the type of person that questions everything, it's just my nature.
Here's what I am wondering. Why do I need a steerable front landing
gear? Wouldn't castered be better? I have plenty of rudder and
independent braking. I should be able to turn on a dime with those.
The steering rods connected to the rudder petals make their use
unnecessarily complex and difficult, add weight and holes in the
firewall. I saw the RV9 in kitplanes and it seems that would be a
better setup.
The RV setup doesn't look like it would be difficult to duplicate. Plus
the wheel base could be a little longer which might be a benefit.
I am interested in thoughts on this.
Larry N1345L www.skyhawg.com
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | A question of horsepower |
Right. My 912s shook like a wet dog at first and had to be hard on the
airframe but I kept tweaking the carbs and my startup/shutdown technique
and now it's fine. The fix for me was getting rid of those retarded flex
cables and going to solid rods. The carbs will actually stay synched now
and idle adjustment is much more precise. Made it a whole lot smoother.
I had originally planned on using the 80HP 912 til I thought about the
mountain trips I had planned. I consider the 912S necessary for any kind
of high density altitude flying. And it makes it a radical performer at
low altitude...lots of fun. Pricey though.
Joe
>The reason I passed on the most popular 912s is it has >proved harsh
operating in
>the 701, more stressed than the 80hp
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Larry,
Ive been thinking about this subject for some time. I have no conclusion yet, but
a couple of thoughts. I agree with your logic. I think it is a matter of just
coming up with a functional design and doing it. I can think of no real reason
why it would not work properly. One thought why the current design is what
it is, maybe Chris did not have differential braking in the beginning. Sounds
good so far. Now my negative thoughts. I fly into a lot of rough strips. Landing
and take off might not be too bad as the aircraft has momentum on its side.
But what about taxing? Not unusual to have the taxi area much rougher than the
strip. With a caster set up the wheel could jam and with prop thrust only I
dont think that would be enough. I know its nice to be able to just push the
rudder peddles and know the nose wheel is pointing where you want it.
If you decide to do it please keep us posted as to the results.
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2752#202752
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: A question of horsepower... |
I fly the 100HP 912S and its wonderful. I live at 6500FT with an 800FT strip and
70FT pine trees all around. More than once I believe the extra power has not
only saved me but givens me that very comfortable margin of safety. If you fly
into and out of long strips never go around mountains or fly at gross weight
the lower horsepower is great. But for my kind of flying the extra power is wonderful.
You can never have enough of a safety margin.
I also like Chris Desmonds video Canyon Flying where he dose a power on stall and
has 0 air speed and is still showing a vertical clime.
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2754#202754
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
No 701 can hang on the prop with as much control as this!- Very impressiv
e!
-
Apples to apples, that was not a STOL airplane,- was an Helicopter- :-)
- :-)-- :-)
-
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Flying a STOL airplane from Chapala, Mexico.
--- On Thu, 9/4/08, Graeme <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au> wrote:
From: Graeme <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Slats again
WATCHED THE VIDEO.
I-WONDER HOW MANY HP THE CUB HAS??
THE CANYON SURFING VIDEO WITH THE 701 IS ALSO GREAT TO WATCH.
-
GRAEMECNS
----- Original Message -----
From: JG
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Slats again
The little bit of GOOD information I found on the subject 2-3 yrs ago indic
ated that the best performance increase when slats were incorporated was-
on airfoils 15% or THINNER.- The 65018 is already-18% so in my feeble m
ind it is like putting lipstick on a pig.
-
Right on JohnB.- This is-a subject that's been perculating in my mine l
ately, and I'm getting ready to write up an analysis when I get the time.
- When you look at the other-aircraft that use slats successfully,-He
lio Courier, Rallye, Feisler Storch, and the-PegaStol wing, all are about
12% thick.- And more significantly, very 'lean' on the upper surface of
the leading edge - very different from that 18% thick and-very 'fat' lead
ing edge of the 701 wing.- That sure will affect the airflow thro the slo
t, and the angle with which it intersects the flow over the top.- These o
ther slats also deploy out and below the bottom edge of the wing, which eff
ectively increases the camber of that thinner wing.- The 701 originally h
ad the slats mounted so that they projected below the wing, but that caused
too much turbulence at cruise for those fixed slats, so they were moved up
to where they are now in order to improve cruise.- Now have a look at th
e
dramatic effect that slats can have on the Super Cubs with a-slim-Clar
kY or very similar airfoil, -see -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLa4
BikYWtc&feature=related-
No 701 can hang on the prop with as much control as this!- Very impressiv
e!
-
Now the flip side of this situation.- I've long wondered what the ideal a
irfoil would be for VGs to have the best effect.- Now I'm beginning to re
alize that that big fat airfoil left behind after the slats are removed fro
m a 701 is just about ideal for VGs.- 'Experts' still keep predicting tha
t VGs won't have much effect on a high lift wing...- Well, all my experie
nce shows just the opposite - with an airfoil that's already very good at l
ow speed airflow, the VGs put the 'icing on the cake'.- That big fat lead
ing edge on the 701 wing turns out to be an ideal- platform for VGs.- I
t's a really unexpected but worthwhile discovery.
-
JohnG
www.stolspeed.com
-
----- Original Message -----
From: John Bolding
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Slats again
- I REALLY wish someone with a flying airplane would go to the trouble of
building either a new wing with the FULL 65018 or remove their standard 70
1 leading edge and replace with a full size nose rib.
I'll even beat out the ribs if someone wants to document the results. My ai
rplane will have this mod but life (and $$$ paying projects in the hangar)
is getting in the way of-steady progress on my 701.
-
My-thought is that because of the fact that the slat has been proved to n
ot contribute much/any (you choose) to lift during cruise, the extra 10 sq.
ft.-+-of wing area you pick up when you put on the full size nose will
help on both ends of the speed range (over the bastard airfoil you are lef
t with when you remove the slats). This is just a little better than a wild
ass guess but seems to have been born out by the Savannah however. It will
also move the center of lift forward a bit which will help with a heavier
engine.
-
For all you float guys out there another thing that bears consideration is
the fact that the slats don't really start doing their thing until you reac
h an AOA that is GREATER than the AOA you can achieve on either landing or
takeoff due to the float afterbody.
The question becomes why add weight, complexity, building time, expense etc
for something that does absolutely nothing for you.---- -I could
n't find a reason either. Maybe I'm just missing something , certainly happ
ened before.
-
I fully understand that this gets firmly into the "EXPERIMENTAL" aspect of
our hobby and am not suggesting that anybody follow suit without doing thei
r OWN homework.
This has all been hashed over more than once here but few of the newer memb
ers (or old ones) search the archives so those that have heard all this dri
vel before just hit delete.
I also concur with Joe's findings, I flew the 40 hr test time on Brett's 70
1 and the last few flights were sans slats with VG's (also on the elevator,
THOSE help a BUNCH), handled- much better on the low end with no loss of
short field performance that I could tell.
-
LO&SLO--- John
-
-
-
-
-
------ Original Message -----
From: Joe Spencer
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:06 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Elevator authority
True. I can't measure any loss of STOL with the VGs. There is no real world
loss in my experience. I was able to duplicate JGs claims on speed gains..
.but the real benefit is better low speed handling and same cruise speed at
reduced power/FUEL BURN...very big deal nowdays. The slats are IMO just a
marketing gimmick. They did work well on takeoff but I couldn't tell that t
hey were at all active on approach unless at a forced very high AOA. Add st
rut fairings for an even more dramatic decrease in drag and-you have a fa
irly efficient airplane(with the Rotax). FWIW.
-
Joe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
- 270.6.16/1651 - Release Date: 9/4/2008 6:57 AM
=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Larry
I thought about a castered NW too but instead rigged up a simple NWS
disconnect system...took about 3 hours. When I went out and flew the
thing and disconnected the NW from the rudder pedals the plane
started yawing to beat hell. Even stifflegging the rudders didn't
stop it. I reconnected and it settled down immediatey. Well, what I
didn't think about was all that rudder area forward of the hinge
line. I think that causes the rudder to naturally "hunt" all over the
place...unless hooked to some sort of damper-the nosewheel. If it was
an all trailing rudder I think it would work fine. I removed the
disconnect stuff, tweaked the rudder trim til it was rigged perfect
and got used to it and am ok with it as designed now.
Joe
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
What with all this recent business about slats and vgs I went back and
read some of my flight test notes and ran across what I consider to be
an important point that should be mentioned...it has been posted here
before but I know most don't dig back thru all that old stuff so here it
is again.
When I installed my VG's I did a WAG and put them at 12% chord. Well I
went out and tried to force it in the air like I had been able to do
with the slats. It got up on its hind legs and ran about 3 or 400 feet
before breaking ground. Like a chicken trying to fly. The VGs were
uncovered from the airflow I think. So I moved them to 10% and same
thing but not quite as long a run before getting airborne. So I moved
them to 8% and thats where they are now and will stay. I haven't been
able to uncover them at 8%. Works good.
The point of all this drivel is if you decide to go VGs be sure and
flight test them to see what you've got before stuffing it in some place
where you need a max effort to get out...the placement is important for
them to work properly...and 8% might not be the magic number for your
bird. Test it.
Joe
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: A question of horsepower... |
I live and fly at altitude of 3500 feet with temps. of 100+ degrees at times. Our
normal flying height is around five to six thousand feet. I have a 912uls in
my 701 and can honestly say I would not be happy with any less power or torque
at the prop. I have never had an overheating coolant or oil problem. I can
sincerely say that I can't think of one Jabiru installation in any plane that
has not been plagued by high head temps. especially on take off. Other then that
they seem to be fine. About the only thing that I don't like about the 912uls
is having to use high octane auto fuel or 100LL. It can be hard to find a station
that sell lots of premium and that is necessary as Rotax wants fresh gas
used. I usually buy my gas in an area where there are alot of high end cars
as they require premium fuel and I feel I have a better chance of getting fresh
fuel at at those stations. Could I get by with the 80HP? yes but it would not
be as much fun. Can one ever have too much power?
Ron Lee
Tucson, AZ
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2781#202781
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: A question of horsepower... |
Yup... My 801 has TOO much power. It has only tried to kill me once beca
use of it and I won't try that trick again, The details are.............
..... I tried a full flaps, stick all the way back, brakes locked take o
ff at minimum weight. Plane rolled about 80 feet, rotated and climbed in
a flat attitude, airspeed indicator was even showing anything so it was
less then 20 mph. Got to about 50 feet agl and the thing decided to rol
l inverted. The flaperons were not effective because of the slow air spe
ed passing over them but the big prop and all the extra HPhad a tremend
ous torque roll happening. I reduced power, stepped on the rudder and pu
shed the nose over all in about 1/2 second. Another second or two and I
would have crashed. This puts a new meaning to getting on the "front" s
ide of the power curve.... Never again will I try to get it in the air
till I see at at least 30 mph on the ASI.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "ronlee" <rlee468@comcast.net> wrote:
I live and fly at altitude of 3500 feet with temps. of 100+ degrees at t
imes. Our normal flying height is around five to six thousand feet. I ha
ve a 912uls in my 701 and can honestly say I would not be happy with any
less power or torque at the prop. I have never had an overheating coola
nt or oil problem. I can sincerely say that I can't think of one Jabiru
installation in any plane that has not been plagued by high head temps.
especially on take off. Other then that they seem to be fine. About the
only thing that I don't like about the 912uls is having to use high octa
ne auto fuel or 100LL. It can be hard to find a station that sell lots o
f premium and that is necessary as Rotax wants fresh gas used. I usually
buy my gas in an area where there are alot of high end cars as they req
uire premium fuel and I feel I have a better chance of getting fresh fue
l at at those stations. Could I get by with the 80HP? yes but it would n
ot be as much fun. Can one ever have too much power?
Ron Lee
Tucson, AZ
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2781#202781
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
____________________________________________________________
Click here for free information on nursing degrees, up to $150/hour
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uAB45yL0wX2iwby0OJ
0qGLVaXf7q6QawA14LzVm3f3gKg8C/
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: A question of horsepower... |
answer to John Bolding:
I contacted John Lowther when I got my custom prop made for the 2200, same type
that he used, late last yr. Athough the Corvair made a very impressive photo
during ground tests, (might appear on the ZAC site?) he soon found its only attribute
was climbing at over 1000 fpm. He sold the engine although I thought he
was getting another for someone else or a different plane, not a 701 installation.
He also said the 701 started life with an HKS (never flew) then Corvair
now 2200a
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2820#202820
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: A question of horsepower... |
Thanks for all the constructive responses. One of my biggest issues is that of
the financial variety when it comes to engine choices. I have been giving a
lot of attention to the VW redrives. The issue of longevity and reliability is
a concern, for sure. Great Plains is not the best when it comes to responding
to emails concerning their products, which, I have to admit, had been a bit
of a turn off from the company. Culver is making a redrive, but it has only
recently been released, and I don't think a lot of them are flying. GP has been
around for quite some time and has a lot of engines out. Does this speak for
the "reliability" of the engines, or are the customers willing to accept the
degraded longevity and reliability, or expect it from a redrive?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2824#202824
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: A question of horsepower... |
Don't know what you mean by "recently" but the Valley Engineering (Culver)
has been sold for a number of years and has a good reputation, they ALSO
make the redrive that Great Plains sells , or it was the last time I looked.
Cooling, at continued high power settings, will always be a problem on the
VW however.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "pdknight" <pdknightcap@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: A question of horsepower...
> <pdknightcap@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks for all the constructive responses. One of my biggest issues is
> that of the financial variety when it comes to engine choices. I have
> been giving a lot of attention to the VW redrives. The issue of longevity
> and reliability is a concern, for sure. Great Plains is not the best when
> it comes to responding to emails concerning their products, which, I have
> to admit, had been a bit of a turn off from the company. Culver is making
> a redrive, but it has only recently been released, and I don't think a lot
> of them are flying. GP has been around for quite some time and has a lot
> of engines out. Does this speak for the "reliability" of the engines, or
> are the customers willing to accept the degraded longevity and
> reliability, or expect it from a redrive?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2824#202824
>
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Isn't it a problem to move them? The ones I have use a double sided
tape, once stuck, they are stuck. Seems like it would be a pretty good
job to take them up and relocate them without tearing them up, plus more
tape. Are we talking about the same VGs? Larry N1345L
Joe Spencer wrote:
> What with all this recent business about slats and vgs I went back and read some
of my flight test notes and ran across what I consider to be an important
point that should be mentioned...it has been posted here before but I know most
don't dig back thru all that old stuff so here it is again.
> When I installed my VG's I did a WAG and put them at 12% chord. Well I went out
and tried to force it in the air like I had been able to do with the slats.
It got up on its hind legs and ran about 3 or 400 feet before breaking ground.
Like a chicken trying to fly. The VGs were uncovered from the airflow I think.
So I moved them to 10% and same thing but not quite as long a run before getting
airborne. So I moved them to 8% and thats where they are now and will stay.
I haven't been able to uncover them at 8%. Works good.
> The point of all this drivel is if you decide to go VGs be sure and flight test
them to see what you've got before stuffing it in some place where you need
a max effort to get out...the placement is important for them to work properly...and
8% might not be the magic number for your bird. Test it.
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thats interesting, kinda like what Chris said happens on a 701 with slats, on his
Slats vs VG page. I wonder if he just gave up on the idea with out further
testing?
Kevin
[quote="jpspencer(at)cableone.net"]
When I installed my VG's I did a WAG and put them at 12% chord. Well I went out
and tried to force it in the air like I had been able to do with the slats.
It got up on its hind legs and ran about 3 or 400 feet before breaking ground.
Like a
Joe
> [b]
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2842#202842
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Yep 12% is way to far back. That's why I recommend 7% to the front
tips. Seldom any problems from being to far forward, but to far back
the stall is happening in front of them.
JG
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Spencer
To: Zenith701801-List@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 2:27 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Slats
What with all this recent business about slats and vgs I went back and
read some of my flight test notes and ran across what I consider to be
an important point that should be mentioned...it has been posted here
before but I know most don't dig back thru all that old stuff so here it
is again.
When I installed my VG's I did a WAG and put them at 12% chord. Well I
went out and tried to force it in the air like I had been able to do
with the slats. It got up on its hind legs and ran about 3 or 400 feet
before breaking ground. Like a chicken trying to fly. The VGs were
uncovered from the airflow I think. So I moved them to 10% and same
thing but not quite as long a run before getting airborne. So I moved
them to 8% and thats where they are now and will stay. I haven't been
able to uncover them at 8%. Works good.
The point of all this drivel is if you decide to go VGs be sure and
flight test them to see what you've got before stuffing it in some place
where you need a max effort to get out...the placement is important for
them to work properly...and 8% might not be the magic number for your
bird. Test it.
Joe
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: A question of horsepower... |
Ben,- Just imagine that myself,- makes me cold sweat!-- Good you ma
de it...--
-
Like one time in my old V8 Pickup when a teen,- once I floored the gas in
a corner downtown.- Missed 3 cars, a light post, one pedestian and a new
s stand for inches, before I could regain control and stop...
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- On Fri, 9/5/08, n801bh@netzero.com <n801bh@netzero.com> wrote:
From: n801bh@netzero.com <n801bh@netzero.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: A question of horsepower...
Yup... My 801 has TOO much power. It has only tried to kill me once because
of it and I won't try that trick again, The details are..................
I tried a full flaps, stick all the way back, brakes locked take off at min
imum weight. Plane rolled about 80 feet, rotated and climbed in a flat atti
tude, airspeed indicator was even showing anything so it was less then 20 m
ph. Got to about 50 feet agl and the thing decided to roll inverted. The fl
aperons were not effective because of the slow air speed passing over them
but the big prop- and all the extra HPhad a tremendous torque roll happen
ing. I reduced power, stepped on the rudder and pushed the nose over all in
about 1/2 second. Another second or two and I would have crashed.- This
puts a new meaning to getting on the "front" side of the power curve....-
Never again will I try to get it in the air till I see at at least 30 mph
on the ASI.
-
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "ronlee" <rlee468@comcast.net> wrote:
I live and fly at altitude of 3500 feet with temps. of 100+ degrees at time
s. Our normal flying height is around five to six thousand feet. I have a 9
12uls in my 701 and can honestly say I would not be happy with any less pow
er or torque at the prop. I have never had an overheating coolant or oil pr
oblem. I can sincerely say that I can't think of one Jabiru installation in
any plane that has not been plagued by high head temps. especially on take
off. Other then that they seem to be fine. About the only thing that I don
't like about the 912uls is having to use high octane auto fuel or 100LL. I
t can be hard to find a station that sell lots of premium and that is neces
sary as Rotax wants fresh gas used. I usually buy my gas in an area where t
here are alot of high end cars as they require premium fuel and I feel I ha
ve a better chance of getting fresh fuel at at those stations. Could I get
by with the 80HP? yes but it would not be as much fun. Can one ever
have too much power?
Ron Lee
Tucson, AZ
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopi=============
========== ----> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?Zenith701801-List===================
=====bsp;----------- MATRON======
=================;--------
List Contribution Web Site sp;---------------
--------&nb================
=========
____________________________________________________________
Click here for free information on nursing degrees, up to $150/hour
=0A=0A=0A
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|