Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - Re: Slats (John Bolding)
2. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Authority (George Race)
3. 07:26 AM - Becker Transponder/Dynon Combo (Geoff Heap)
4. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: Slats again ad nausium (John Bolding)
5. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Slats again ad nausium (Jean-Paul Roy)
6. 12:28 PM - slats (BokKat)
7. 02:40 PM - Re: slats (JG)
8. 03:46 PM - slats/Flicka (Joe Spencer)
9. 04:44 PM - Fuel return (philip smith)
10. 05:18 PM - Re: Fuel return (Craig Payne)
11. 06:01 PM - 701 static port (Tracy)
12. 06:07 PM - Re:200 in 701 (Tracy)
13. 06:22 PM - Re: 701 static port (Lee Thomas)
14. 09:11 PM - Question about fuel flow from only one tank? (Curt Thompson)
15. 09:13 PM - Re: 701 static port (ZodieRocket)
16. 09:48 PM - Re: 701 static port (jetboy)
17. 09:49 PM - Re: Fuel return (Gary Gower)
18. 11:13 PM - Re: Question about fuel flow from only one tank? (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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If Zenith is going to be stocking your VG's it would seem they would be
the logical spot to go to for extra tape in N. America huh?
John
----- Original Message -----
From: JG
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Slats
That 3M adhesive is an industrial product and I have to buy in $200
lots. Someone in Canada tried to get it from 3M there and had the same
problem. Anyone needing more of it, just contact me and I'll send more,
no charge.
JG
www.stolspeed.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Spencer
To: Zenith701801-List@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 3:43 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Slats
>That's what I have too. It does seems like after twice it
>wouldn't be
>very good
Larry
I replaced the adhesive on mine each time I moved them. Got more
from JG but it should be available here somewhere.
Joe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Authority |
First I am no expert, but the following just FYI and to think about
The Slat is actually considered as part of the wing surface and form.
Removing the slats and brackets will slightly change the lift of the wing
due to surface being lessened. It will reduce weight slightly, and also
affect the Weight & Balance as it is measured as a percentage of MAC, from
the FRONT of the slat.
As I said, just something to think about from a not expert.
George
N73EX - Now Flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pdknight
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Elevator Authority
--> <pdknightcap@yahoo.com>
Looking at some of the data and reports, I am half tempted to not even order
the slats or install the slat mounts and going exclusively with the VGs.
I'm guessing this would save considerably on weight, and give a cleaner
leading edge(not that it matters a whole lot in this airplane). Thoughts?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2410#202410
Message 3
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| Subject: | Becker Transponder/Dynon Combo |
Ive visited this subject before but still have not purchased a Transponder yet.
Now it's holding me up and I need to finish my Panel. I have no panel space for
the standard length instruments (6.0 x 2..0 approx), so I'm looking at getting
a Becker because of its square shape (2.4 x 2.4).
My main concern would be hooking it to my Dynon for altitude encoding. Dynon assures
me that the worst case would be that I need their altitude encoder converter,
not too expensive.
So
1. I'm looking for any comments on Becker units, good or bad.
2. Anyone have a Dynon/becker combo.
3. Any comments on S mode requirements. They will be mandatory as I understand
it in 2009 or 2010. The A and C mode Becker is about $1800 and the S mode is
about $2400.
I'm not concerned about the price. I'm ready to bite the bullet on that. I just
wanna get this thing finished and Fly.
Thanks Guys .Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3040#203040
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Slats again ad nausium |
I KNEW this would get all wound up again so at the risk of getting pitched
off the list I would like to point out a couple of things that have been
found out by TESTING, not just reading about it in the Zenith brochure.
You are partially correct in your statements.
The CG WILL change as you remove 13# that is ahead of the CG. Easy to
figure where the CG now lies and a log book entry is required.
It is a little more involved when discussing the new center of lift however.
We have been led to believe, by reading the information that Chris has
published on the subject, that the slats DO provide lift at cruise angles
of attack. Everybody bought into that notion until Gilpin (and others after
him, including me) discovered that pitch trim settings did NOT change from
back to back flights with the only difference being that one was WITH slats
and one was WITHOUT slats.
I know this has been duplicated on several 701's but I have seen no info on
801's or other airplanes equipped with slats.
I don't know if that test in itself is definitive (I'd bet big money that it
is) but it certainly casts doubt on the notion that the slat is doing
something for you at cruise.
Damn I hope we haven't gotten off on another month talking about slats !!!
LO&SLO John
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane@mrrace.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: Elevator Authority
> <mykitairplane@mrrace.com>
>
> First I am no expert, but the following just FYI and to think about
>
> The Slat is actually considered as part of the wing surface and form.
> Removing the slats and brackets will slightly change the lift of the wing
> due to surface being lessened. It will reduce weight slightly, and also
> affect the Weight & Balance as it is measured as a percentage of MAC, from
> the FRONT of the slat.
>
> As I said, just something to think about from a not expert.
>
> George
> N73EX - Now Flying
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Slats again ad nausium |
John, I don't see any risk of you getting pitched off this group ! Flicka i
s wayyyyyyyyyy ahead of you. lolll
Please do not archive
Jean-Paul Roy
--- En date de=C2-: Dim, 7.9.08, John Bolding <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
a =C3=A9crit=C2-:
De: John Bolding <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
Objet: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Slats again ad nausium
=C3: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
<jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
I KNEW this would get all wound up again so at the risk of getting pitched
off the list I would like to point out a couple of things that have been
found out by TESTING, not just reading about it in the Zenith brochure.
You are partially correct in your statements.
The CG WILL change as you remove 13# that is ahead of the CG. Easy to
figure where the CG now lies and a log book entry is required.
It is a little more involved when discussing the new center of lift however
..
We have been led to believe, by reading the information that Chris has
published on the subject, that the slats DO provide lift at cruise angles
of attack. Everybody bought into that notion until Gilpin (and others afte
r
him, including me) discovered that pitch trim settings did NOT change from
back to back flights with the only difference being that one was WITH slats
and one was WITHOUT slats.
I know this has been duplicated on several 701's but I have seen no info on
801's or other airplanes equipped with slats.
I don't know if that test in itself is definitive (I'd bet big money
that it
is) but it certainly casts doubt on the notion that the slat is doing
something for you at cruise.
Damn I hope we haven't gotten off on another month talking about slats !!!
LO&SLO John
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane@mrrace.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: Elevator Authority
> <mykitairplane@mrrace.com>
>
> First I am no expert, but the following just FYI and to think about
>
> The Slat is actually considered as part of the wing surface and form.
> Removing the slats and brackets will slightly change the lift of the wing
> due to surface being lessened. It will reduce weight slightly, and also
> affect the Weight & Balance as it is measured as a percentage of MAC,
from
> the FRONT of the slat.
>
> As I said, just something to think about from a not expert.
>
> George
> N73EX - Now Flying
>
=0A=0A=0A D=C3=A9couvrez les photos les plus int=C3=A9ressantes du jou
r.=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/explore/interesting/7days/
Message 6
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I still don't seem to be able to post but will try it again.
Is it possible for someone thoroughly familiar with the g;ohjy
vjstsvyrtodtovd pg yr 701 to fly the plane with slats on one side and
slats removed wand VG's on the other.
I coubt it would be dangerous for an experienced pilot but might be
enlightening.
A friend did it with those drooping wing tips on a kitfox and found
absolutely no difference in takeoff, yaw, lift, etc.
Message 7
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----- Original Message -----
From: BokKat
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:26 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: slats
Is it possible for someone thoroughly familiar with the g;ohjy
vjstsvyrtodtovd pg yr 701 to fly the plane with slats on one side and
slats removed wand VG's on the other.
I coubt it would be dangerous for an experienced pilot but might be
enlightening.
A friend did it with those drooping wing tips on a kitfox and found
absolutely no difference in takeoff, yaw, lift, etc.
I seriously considered trying that, but decided that the enormous drag
that the slat generates at the high angle of attack in the flare might
be more than I could handle, right when it really matters....
Really interesting to hear of your friend's experience with the
drooping wing tip - no difference, just as I had suspected.....
JG
Message 8
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>John, I don't see any risk of you getting pitched off this >group !
Flicka i
>s wayyyyyyyyyy ahead of you
Roger that! Flicka is the best insurance possible for all of us...if he
hasn't been canned we all should be safe.
J
Message 9
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I posted this a while back but did not get definitive answers. The Rotax
912ULS I'm hanging on my CH-701 has a fitting on the top of the fuel rail
that says "return line to tank" in the Rotax installation manual. Some
have said just to block it off - others said they plumbed it back to a
"line from the tank". I imagine that this line is to prevent fuel
vaporization. I have installed a Spruce gascolator ahead of the firewall it
has a 1/8 npt fitting in the top for "fuel primer". Would it work to run a
1/4 hose to this fitting - I don't want to run another line back through the
cockpit if I don't have to. Planning to use 91 octane mogas - field
elevation is 4000ft with hot summers.
Thanks Phil
Message 10
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At least one of the 701s built at Quality Sport Planes ran the line back to
a three port manifold on the people side of the firewall. I've attached a
picture. Presumably there it mixed with cooler fuel coming from the tanks.
I've attached a picture. Doug Dugger said the part came with the FWF kit
from ZAC but that a similar part could be bought from Aircraft Spruce. Look
under hardware->fittings->aluminum manifold fittings. I found a similar part
at McMaster-Carr, p/n 5469K101 "ALUMINUM MANIFOLD, 2 OUTLETS, 1/4" NPT INLET
X 1/8" NPT OUTLET"
-- Craig
Message 11
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does anyone have a static port in there 701 or just leave them open?
Message 12
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thanks for the info guys
Message 13
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Yes have two static ports. One on each side of fuselage about 6" behind
doors.
Lee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 6:01 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 static port
does anyone have a static port in there 701 or just leave them open?
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
3:30 PM
Message 14
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| Subject: | Question about fuel flow from only one tank? |
Sorry, I know this has been discussed before but I was hoping to get some
more opinions. There was a thread in the old Zenith list about the tendency
of the fuel to only drain from one tank of their CH701 until that tank is
empty and then the fuel drains from the other tank. It was said that
sometimes it happens from the left tank and other times it happens from the
right (from the same aircraft). I've had at least two other guys tell me
this has happened to them. I have a few questions:
1. Does this happen a lot or only occasionally on your CH701?
2. If this happens to your CH701, how is your planes fuel system
different than the normal factory configuration (line routing, size,
configuration, etc.)?
3. Same question if this does not happen on your CH701. What is
different about your plane? Do you think you might have done something that
keeps this from happening?
4. Does a tank ever work its way out of this mode? Does it appear to
stop feeding and then recover before a tank completely drains?
5. Once this blockage (or air bubble) works its way out and both tanks
drain together, does it reappear if you don't let air in the fuel system?
Thanks,
Curt
Plans building CH701, Redmond, WA, USA
Message 15
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Same here in a similar location
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee
Thomas
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:22 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 static port
<cltvet@mail.ocis.net>
Yes have two static ports. One on each side of fuselage about 6" behind
doors.
Lee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 6:01 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 static port
does anyone have a static port in there 701 or just leave them open?
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
3:30 PM
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
9/6/2008 8:07 PM
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 701 static port |
I have one located ahead of the pilot door between the hinges (side opening doors)
Without this port connected results in a 7 knots increase indicated at cruise.
The GPS agrees with the external port. There is some error on sideslip obviously
that would be better with 2 ports; I just did it the way Cessna did it on the
150.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3129#203129
Message 17
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Hello Phil,
-
I am flying a 701 912S,-from our strip at 5,000 ft ASL- and fly normaly
up to 11,500-(legal limit is 12 here) in XCountry trips (yes my 701 IS a
XCountry plane),-temperature year round is normal to hot in summers,-
normally no frezzing (sp?) temps in winter, just cold.
-
We use only 93 oct fuel (Only brand available here in Mexico).- The retur
n conection in our airplane is canceled,- No problem in 200 plus hours.
--- There are several airplanes (diferent brands and models) with 912
engines around here, some with return line-some without it.- Never hea
rd of any problem with the engines in that matter.
-
I dont think there is alcohol in the gasoline here, only place to find some
alcohol and Tequila is in the hangar talk time in the late afternoon and n
ight.- :-)
Hope this helps.
-
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
601 XL Jab 3300 Building.
--- On Sun, 9/7/08, philip smith <madriver@wildblue.net> wrote:
From: philip smith <madriver@wildblue.net>
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fuel return
I posted this a while back but did not get definitive answers.- The Rotax
912ULS I'm hanging on my CH-701 has a fitting on the top of the fuel rail
that says "return line to tank"- in the Rotax installation manual.- Som
e have said just to block it off - -others said they plumbed it back to a
"line from the tank".- I imagine that this line is to prevent fuel vapor
ization. I have installed a Spruce gascolator ahead of the firewall it has
a 1/8 npt fitting in the top for "fuel primer".-- Would it work to run
a 1/4 hose to this fitting - I don't want to run another line back through
the cockpit if I don't have to. Planning to use 91 octane mogas - field ele
vation is 4000ft with hot summers.-
-
Thanks- Phil
=0A=0A=0A
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Question about fuel flow from only one tank? |
Hello Curt,
-
I am one of the guys to post in that time,- in our 701 the right tank dra
ins first.-- Since the first time (did called our atention-a bit just
to think the engine could stop, but didnt).-
-
Our instalation is exactly as the plans.--The next saturday from the in
cident (even that nothing happend) we installed a fuel valve in each hose t
hat comes down though the baggage compartment,- both at easy reach from t
he pilot or copilot seat.- we have two ways to handle the fuel burn.
This only happens in long trips of more than 2 or 3 hrs.- up to 2 hrs fli
ghts no problem, fuel gets "even" once parked level in platform or hangar.
1.- (My borther Larry option) take off both valves open , the left tank kee
p full by itself,- when the right tank almost reaches 1/4 he closes the v
alve and uses the left, open both for landing, regardless the fuel in the l
eft tank.
We never fly with less than 1/4 in each tank,- most of our "long" flights
are planned about 2 and 3 hrs. betwen refueling.
-
2.--(My option) Take off both valves open,- when I reach cruise (or in
long climb, trim at 70 mph) I close the right side valve until left tank is
at 1/2 then open both valves.- normally then both reach 1/4 even...- i
f not (one case only)- when the right tank got premature to 1/4 I closed
the valve for about 10 minutes, the time I needed-to-start my descent a
t destination, then opened both for landing.
-
We always take off- and land with both valves open,- in local flights l
ess than an hour, we keep both valves open (take off and landing practice,
introductory and "friends from a friend"-demo flights, short relaxed flig
hts around the lake, etc.).
-
We always plan carefully the gas, distance, wind speed and direction, to ha
ve 1 hour reserve,- not much landing strips open around here.
-
One last thing.- we normally leave the plane over night or during the wee
k days in our hangar, with both tanks in half (20 liters each).- the reas
on is that in case that one main tire gets flat during the week or night),
- lower tank will- be full and higher empty.- If there is more fuel i
n the tanks will drain to the floor (dont ask me how we learned it $$)
-
Hope this helps.
-
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
701 912S.
--- On Mon, 9/8/08, Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net>
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Question about fuel flow from only one tank?
Sorry, I know this has been discussed before but I was hoping to get some m
ore opinions.- There was a thread in the old Zenith list about the tenden
cy of the fuel to only drain from one tank of their CH701 until that tank i
s empty and then the fuel drains from the other tank.- It was said that s
ometimes it happens from the left tank and other times it happens from the
right (from the same aircraft).- I=A2ve had at least two other guys tell
me this has happened to them.- I have a few questions:
1.----- Does this happen a lot or only occasionally on your CH701
?
2.----- If this happens to your CH701, how is your planes fuel sy
stem different than the normal factory configuration (line routing, size, c
onfiguration, etc.)?
3.----- Same question if this does not happen on your CH701.- W
hat is different about your plane?- Do you think you might have done some
thing that keeps this from happening?
4.----- Does a tank ever work its way out of this mode?- Does i
t appear to stop feeding and then recover before a tank completely drains?
5.----- Once this blockage (or air bubble) works its way out and
both tanks drain together, does it reappear if you don=A2t let air in the f
uel system?
Thanks,
Curt
Plans building CH701, Redmond, WA, USA
=0A=0A=0A
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