---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/16/08: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:05 AM - Re: Re: Re - Question about fuel flow from only one tank? (Roy Szarafinski) 2. 04:55 AM - Re: CH801 Seats/ Rudder Pedals (dj45) 3. 11:34 AM - Stratus EA-81 - Going Going Gone... (Don Honabach) 4. 06:08 PM - Re: Shoulder Harness attachment (cal.riggs) 5. 06:50 PM - Why not just build the fuel system as per the plan (Brett Hanley) 6. 06:53 PM - Re: 801 seat belts (Jim Frisby) 7. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: 801 seat belts (Graeme) 8. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: 801 seat belts (Gary Gower) 9. 09:08 PM - Re: Re: 801 seat belts (Joemotis@aol.com) 10. 09:21 PM - Re: Re: 801 seat belts (Joemotis@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:47 AM PST US From: Roy Szarafinski Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Re - Question about fuel flow from only one tank? I am glad to know that Gary, I did the same but without prior firsthand knowledge of the effectiveness. My tank has a submersible high pressure pump and fuel cell foam in it and will be hard to retrofit a level sender. Perhaps I will investigate oil level senders used on lawn mowers or cars. Thanks for the info. Cheers Roy Szarafinski 701 plans, corvair roysgarage.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Gary Gower Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:11:16 AM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Re - Question about fuel flow from only one tank? Hello friends, The Kitfox rear header tank (about a galon capacity) is also a good idea, is attached to the back side of the seats. this tank conects both wing tanks in one over the gascolator. comes with a float switch that will light a bulb in the instrument panel in case of the fuel is low in this header tank. At least will give the pilot a few minutes to aproach a landing place before the engine stops... Someone knows if Kitfox sells them, or where can be bought? at least the float switch, I can make my own tank with alum or vinilester resin... Saludos Gary Gower. -- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: CH801 Seats/ Rudder Pedals From: "dj45" Jeff, I installed our seats per the planes and I haven't noticed any problem withe the rudder pedals being offset a bit. Have 100 hrs. on the plane. I did put slides on the seat so I can adjust it in flight. Didn't like the rod system. -------- Do not archive Dan Stanton N9801S 99.9% Done and Flying N9701S-40% done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4538#204538 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:34:31 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Stratus EA-81 - Going Going Gone... From: "Don Honabach" Hey Everyone, The EA-81 Subaru is on its last day at eBay. If anything one is interested the EA-81 and FWF Kit are currently going to sell for just a bit over $2,000 as of right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150291956 8 59 Don Honabach Tempe, AZ 601HDS - N601DX Building for 10 years and going :)! Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Shoulder Harness attachment From: "cal.riggs" Jeff, I figured you were... an engineer. What branch? AE? I thought that showing the photo of the deformation of the fuselage at the shoulder harness attachment would show that maybe a calculation of shear force on an anchored piece of aluminum may not be an accurate representation of the complete picture. Being that I'm not a structural engineer (or even a mechanical engineer), I got the impression that your calculation only included the aluminum attachment piece, the bolt, and 200 lbs at 10Gs shear. If you, in fact, included force absorption due to the deformation of the fuselage structure, then I'd say we may have to consider replacing our stock seat belt tabs. However, I can't seem to get past the evidence that in an actual crash, the tab was stronger than the fuselage. At what point, with the inclusion of structural deformation, does the scenario of tab, bolt, 200lbs body take over? Regards, Cal Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4690#204690 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:18 PM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith701801-List: Why not just build the fuel system as per the plan I have not heard of any problem building the fuel system as per the plan. - What are we hoping to gain by changes? Speed? Simplicity? Save money? G ain weight? I just do not see the need for modifications.- - Brett Hanley N858BH 701/ Subaru EA81 40 hours Hilltown PA ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:24 PM PST US From: Jim Frisby Subject: Zenith701801-List: RE: 801 seat belts Jeff=2C I had replaced the outboard seatbelt anchors too=2C the ones on the seat ba ck were in the way and just didn't seem adequate. I added anchors along th e inside of the cabin wall behind the door and tied them in to the gear/str ut fitment with a 4130 strap. These showed no sign of failure in the crash =2C but as Bill said=2C the center anchor peeled completely off the center console. Somehow=2C the last rivet must have failed just as my body stoppe d pulling on it=2C because I did not impact anything. The plane came to re st nearly inverted=2C which may have contributed to the "peeling" force on the center anchor=2C however I can tell you that crashing inverted is a cle ar possibility. I have photos of the failed anchor. I did send these to Z AC but I don't think they ever did anything about it. Jim Frisby> Date: Fri=2C 12 Sep 2008 07:48:42 -0800> From: keystone@gci.net > Subject: 801 seat belts> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com> CC: n85ae@y ahoo.com=3B n801za@hotmail.com> > Jeff> > Can I get pics of how you beefed up your seat belt attach points? > > When Jim F wrecked his 801 the rivets pulled out from the center attach> point. He was in the plane by himself wh en he crashed. I hate to think> what would have happened if there had been 2 people in the front seat. > > I suspect ZAC assumed the rivets would be i n shear but they failed in> tension. > > I installed another AL plate under the tunnel top and used A-6 rivets on my> center attach point after what h appened to Jim. > > > Bill Wilcox> N801BW> Valdez=2C AK> 15 hrs on Full Lot us floats> > > > Time: 12:54:34 PM PST US> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Shoulder Harness attachment> From: "n85ae" > > > Something to think about=2C because Zenith sure did not do their engineering> calcul ation with regard to the seatbelts.> > I calculated the stock 801 seat belt tabs at 200lb.s at 10G's in shear=2C if> indeed the rivets don't pull out before that. So I replaced them with 4130> steel the same thickness which I bolted with AN3's to the fueslage> longerons. I> also added structure to t he center console.> > Crash impacts can go up to 40/50G's and be survivable =2C so I'm not sure> what they were thinking when the designed the stock on es. But they were> not designed to handle more than the bare minimum. > > I suppose if I crash that hard I might not survive anyway=2C but I sure don' t> want to leave on account the seat belt tabs sheared.> > Jeff> > > _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together=97at home=2C work=2C or on the go. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:44 PM PST US From: "Graeme" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: RE: 801 seat belts there is a lot of talk of surviving 40/50g crashes These aircraft are made to fly not crash. In a reasonable nasty crash (aircraft still flying) I would expect to survive in a CH701 If I dont Fly into any thing solid at High angles of attack. I have had a crash landing into a cane padock and I and my passenger were unscathed. The aircraft would be classed af written off. The seat belt points held. If you increase the channel attach point what stops the whole channel from pullin out in you 40/50g crash. What angle of attack and speed do you need to be doing to get a 40/50g crash loading in a CH701. Graemecns ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:16 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: RE: 801 seat belts The important thing to survive any crash are not only the seats belts, or t he structure of the airplane in distress, is the ability of the pilot to ke ep control of the airplane (keep it flying, as much as he is human posible) - before touching ground (or what ever material more solid than air gets in the way).-- An airplane out of control will increase dramaticaly the speed in only seco nds and the force of impact (G's)- will go up in--doubles- way,- -(I know there is a name for this in english,- I am an Engineer, but st udied and practice in Mexico (in Spanish is exponencial). In the same way the survival of the humans (pilot and passengers) decreases the same way.- Forget the structure,- train and practice emergencies to fly the airplane always.- Eveything else is second in importance, once we survive, we can do anything about it.- Surviving-starts with a red face in a ground loop. or when bouncing the l anding (with front training wheel)--- :-) :-)--;-)- - Saludos Gary- Gower Do not archive --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Graeme wrote: From: Graeme Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: RE: 801 seat belts #yiv1960866632 .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TO P:0px;} #yiv1960866632 { FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} there is a lot of talk of surviving 40/50g crashes These aircraft are made to fly not crash. In a reasonable nasty crash (aircraft still flying) I would expect to survi ve in a CH701 -If I dont Fly into any thing solid at High angles of attack. I have had a crash landing into a cane padock and I and my passenger were u nscathed. The aircraft would be classed af written off. The seat belt points held. If you increase the channel attach point what stops the whole channel from pullin out in you 40/50g crash. What angle of attack and speed do you need to be doing to get a 40/50g cras h loading in a CH701. - Graemecns - =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:51 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: RE: 801 seat belts In a message dated 9/16/2008 8:51:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ggower_99@yahoo.com writes: (in Spanish is exponencial). In English is exponential. If you want to make the bracket Bigger, thicker, longer and stronger and to clarify I am NOT an Engineer, what's the worst possible harm? Joe Motis No Archivos, Eh **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:31 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: RE: 801 seat belts Besides the weight penalty. Joe Motis Do not archive Domo **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. 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