---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/21/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:34 AM - Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions (kmccune) 2. 06:27 AM - Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" (George Race) 3. 08:25 AM - Re: 701 Hard Landing (ricklach) 4. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: 701 Hard Landing (Joe Stevenson) 5. 10:09 AM - Re: 701 Hard Landing (kmccune) 6. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: 701 Hard Landing (Damien and Kathy) 7. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: 701 Hard Landing (Craig Payne) 8. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: 701 Hard Landing (Damien and Kathy) 9. 02:28 PM - Re: 801 wing root rib (Tom P) 10. 02:28 PM - Re: 801 wing root rib (Tom P) 11. 06:59 PM - Re: 701 Hard Landing (ricklach) 12. 08:16 PM - Re: BIG tires on 801 (John Swartout) 13. 08:30 PM - Re: fuel flow for CH701 (SafeAirOne) 14. 08:58 PM - Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions (mwpicard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions From: "kmccune" I like that! do not archive mwpicard wrote: > STOLness -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5357#205357 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:25 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith701801-List: Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern Time. http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George CH-701 - N73EX - IT FLYS! Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing From: "ricklach" I would not doubt that youre A&P is a very qualified person, but if he has not repaired a 701 after a hard landing he might not know exactly where to look for problems. I've repaired two hard landing 701's. Both hard landings were from the same mistake, they pulled power to soon at too low an airspeed. This is typical in a 701 and results in the big bounce. The big bounce bends the main gear out and then after the big bounce the plane pitches forward and lands on the nose gear, and if its a real big bounce it then continues forward over on to its back. There are two places to look to see how bad the bounce was. The main gear area. It dose not ripple the out side skin but it flexes the box that the gear is recessed in that runs from right to left under the seats. Go in from the belly access door with a flash light and look at the box for kinks about 6 to 10 inches inboard from the steel gear/strut mount. If they were bad kinks they should have been repaired with doublers in that area. You should also look from under the aircraft in this area for kinks in the box and around the floorboard. The second place to look for problems is the nose gear. If the gear has been bottomed from a hard landing or a big bounce the strut comes up and hits the engine mount tubes. You cant see it because its between the firewall and the mount tubes. But you can sure feel it with your fingers. Also you will find ripples in the belly skin round the triangular plate that mounts the nose gear strut to the bottom of the fuselage. Also if it did go up on to the nose gear but did not go over it most likely hit one of the wing tips as it pivoted and came back down. This would have damaged the slat at the wing tip and required repair. None of these problems are killer. The 701 is a rugged airplane and be repaired easy. Hope this helps youre A&P. Rick -------- Rick N35 26.700, W118 16.743 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5372#205372 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:56 AM PST US From: Joe Stevenson Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing Rick,=0A=0AExcellent post, I've saved to to my "need to keep" file, thanks a lot, this is thkind of information I love to learn about from others and why I joined the list.=0A=0AJoe=0A=0ADo Not Archive =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Origi nal Message ----=0AFrom: ricklach =0ATo: zenith701801-li st@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:25:16 AM=0ASubject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing=0A=0A--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ricklach" =0A=0AI would not doubt that you =99re A&P is a very qualified person, but if he has not repaired a 70 1 after a hard landing he might not know exactly where to look for problems . I've repaired two hard landing 701's. Both hard landings were from the sa me mistake, they pulled power to soon at too low an airspeed. This is typic al in a 701 and results in the big bounce. The big bounce bends the main ge ar out and then after the big bounce the plane pitches forward and lands on the nose gear, and if it=99s a real big bounce it then continues for ward over on to it=99s back. =0A=0AThere are two places to look to se e how bad the bounce was. The main gear area. It dose not ripple the out si de skin but it flexes the box that the gear is recessed in that runs from r ight to left under the seats. Go in from the belly access door with a flash light and look at the box for kinks about 6 to 10 inches inboard from the steel gear/strut mount.- If they were bad kinks they should have been rep aired with doublers in that area. You should also look from under the aircr aft in this area for kinks in the box and around the floorboard.=0A=0AThe s econd place to look for problems is the nose gear. If the gear has been bot tomed from a hard landing or a big bounce the strut comes up and hits the e ngine mount tubes. You can=99t see it because it=99s between th e firewall and the mount tubes. But you can sure feel it with your fingers. Also you will find ripples in the belly skin round the triangular plate th at mounts the nose gear strut to the bottom of the fuselage. =0A=0AAlso if it did go up on to the nose gear but did not go over it most likely hit one of the wing tips as it pivoted and came back down. This would have damaged the slat at the wing tip and required repair. =0A=0ANone of these problems are killer. The 701 is a rugged airplane and be repaired easy. =0A=0AHope this helps you=99re A&P.=0A=0ARick=0A=0A--------=0ARick=0AN35 26.700, - W118 16.743=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://foru - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admi ======0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:48 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing From: "kmccune" I'll second that, good info. Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5380#205380 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:41:17 AM PST US From: "Damien and Kathy" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing Rick: Thanks for the info. It will be very useful for the future. Unfortunately I have since found out that in addition to the hard landing it also had a prop strike. That is more damage history than I want to deal with, but the search goes on. Regards, Damien DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "ricklach" Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:25 AM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing > > I would not doubt that you?Tre A&P is a very qualified person, but if he > has not repaired a 701 after a hard landing he might not know exactly > where to look for problems. I've repaired two hard landing 701's. Both > hard landings were from the same mistake, they pulled power to soon at too > low an airspeed. This is typical in a 701 and results in the big bounce. > The big bounce bends the main gear out and then after the big bounce the > plane pitches forward and lands on the nose gear, and if it?Ts a real big > bounce it then continues forward over on to it?Ts back. > > There are two places to look to see how bad the bounce was. The main gear > area. It dose not ripple the out side skin but it flexes the box that the > gear is recessed in that runs from right to left under the seats. Go in > from the belly access door with a flash light and look at the box for > kinks about 6 to 10 inches inboard from the steel gear/strut mount. If > they were bad kinks they should have been repaired with doublers in that > area. You should also look from under the aircraft in this area for kinks > in the box and around the floorboard. > > The second place to look for problems is the nose gear. If the gear has > been bottomed from a hard landing or a big bounce the strut comes up and > hits the engine mount tubes. You can?Tt see it because it?Ts between the > firewall and the mount tubes. But you can sure feel it with your fingers. > Also you will find ripples in the belly skin round the triangular plate > that mounts the nose gear strut to the bottom of the fuselage. > > Also if it did go up on to the nose gear but did not go over it most > likely hit one of the wing tips as it pivoted and came back down. This > would have damaged the slat at the wing tip and required repair. > > None of these problems are killer. The 701 is a rugged airplane and be > repaired easy. > > Hope this helps you?Tre A&P. > > Rick > > -------- > Rick > N35 26.700, W118 16.743 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5372#205372 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:27 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing Was this a 701 on Barnstormers? If so, which one? -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Damien and Kathy Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing Rick: Thanks for the info. It will be very useful for the future. Unfortunately I have since found out that in addition to the hard landing it also had a prop strike. That is more damage history than I want to deal with, but the search goes on. Regards, Damien DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "ricklach" Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:25 AM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing > > I would not doubt that you?Tre A&P is a very qualified person, but if he > has not repaired a 701 after a hard landing he might not know exactly > where to look for problems. I've repaired two hard landing 701's. Both > hard landings were from the same mistake, they pulled power to soon at too > low an airspeed. This is typical in a 701 and results in the big bounce. > The big bounce bends the main gear out and then after the big bounce the > plane pitches forward and lands on the nose gear, and if it?Ts a real big > bounce it then continues forward over on to it?Ts back. > > There are two places to look to see how bad the bounce was. The main gear > area. It dose not ripple the out side skin but it flexes the box that the > gear is recessed in that runs from right to left under the seats. Go in > from the belly access door with a flash light and look at the box for > kinks about 6 to 10 inches inboard from the steel gear/strut mount. If > they were bad kinks they should have been repaired with doublers in that > area. You should also look from under the aircraft in this area for kinks > in the box and around the floorboard. > > The second place to look for problems is the nose gear. If the gear has > been bottomed from a hard landing or a big bounce the strut comes up and > hits the engine mount tubes. You can?Tt see it because it?Ts between the > firewall and the mount tubes. But you can sure feel it with your fingers. > Also you will find ripples in the belly skin round the triangular plate > that mounts the nose gear strut to the bottom of the fuselage. > > Also if it did go up on to the nose gear but did not go over it most > likely hit one of the wing tips as it pivoted and came back down. This > would have damaged the slat at the wing tip and required repair. > > None of these problems are killer. The 701 is a rugged airplane and be > repaired easy. > > Hope this helps you?Tre A&P. > > Rick > > -------- > Rick > N35 26.700, W118 16.743 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5372#205372 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:48 PM PST US From: "Damien and Kathy" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing It was the one in Kentucky. Nice looking plane, nice paint job. I have not looked at the plane in person, Kentucky is just too far away (I live in NY) for me to be able to properly evaluate the airplane for damage. Regards, Damien DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:47 PM Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing > > > Was this a 701 on Barnstormers? If so, which one? > > -- Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Damien > and Kathy > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:06 PM > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing > > > > Rick: > Thanks for the info. It will be very useful for the future. Unfortunately > I > have since found out that in addition to the hard landing it also had a > prop > strike. That is more damage history than I want to deal with, but the > search > goes on. > Regards, > Damien > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ricklach" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:25 AM > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing > > >> >> I would not doubt that you?Tre A&P is a very qualified person, but if he >> has not repaired a 701 after a hard landing he might not know exactly >> where to look for problems. I've repaired two hard landing 701's. Both >> hard landings were from the same mistake, they pulled power to soon at >> too >> low an airspeed. This is typical in a 701 and results in the big bounce. >> The big bounce bends the main gear out and then after the big bounce the >> plane pitches forward and lands on the nose gear, and if it?Ts a real >> big >> bounce it then continues forward over on to it?Ts back. >> >> There are two places to look to see how bad the bounce was. The main gear >> area. It dose not ripple the out side skin but it flexes the box that the >> gear is recessed in that runs from right to left under the seats. Go in >> from the belly access door with a flash light and look at the box for >> kinks about 6 to 10 inches inboard from the steel gear/strut mount. If >> they were bad kinks they should have been repaired with doublers in that >> area. You should also look from under the aircraft in this area for kinks >> in the box and around the floorboard. >> >> The second place to look for problems is the nose gear. If the gear has >> been bottomed from a hard landing or a big bounce the strut comes up and >> hits the engine mount tubes. You can?Tt see it because it?Ts between >> the >> firewall and the mount tubes. But you can sure feel it with your fingers. >> Also you will find ripples in the belly skin round the triangular plate >> that mounts the nose gear strut to the bottom of the fuselage. >> >> Also if it did go up on to the nose gear but did not go over it most >> likely hit one of the wing tips as it pivoted and came back down. This >> would have damaged the slat at the wing tip and required repair. >> >> None of these problems are killer. The 701 is a rugged airplane and be >> repaired easy. >> >> Hope this helps you?Tre A&P. >> >> Rick >> >> -------- >> Rick >> N35 26.700, W118 16.743 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5372#205372 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 801 wing root rib From: "Tom P" I would order the right length you need to make it the correct length. Keep in mind also that your cabin frame will be adjusted to the length of the main spar to the rear spar. When it comes time to do that you will be making a template for each wing that holds top cabin frame at the correct distance for each wing. I'm not sure how much of a difference in the two would be acceptable so keep that in mind that you might want to make sure both wings will be kinda close in this distance. Mine happen to be exact! The final test though will be when I put the wings on, hopefully they fit perfectly and I made no mistakes while measuring for my templates. -------- Tom CH801 Dynon D180 Lycoming IO-360 From Teledyne Mattituck www.computerclubcanada.com/plane.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5405#205405 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:39 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 801 wing root rib From: "Tom P" I would order the right length you need to make it the correct length. Keep in mind also that your cabin frame will be adjusted to the length of the main spar to the rear spar. When it comes time to do that you will be making a template for each wing that holds top cabin frame at the correct distance for each wing. I'm not sure how much of a difference in the two would be acceptable so keep that in mind that you might want to make sure both wings will be kinda close in this distance. Mine happen to be exact! The final test though will be when I put the wings on, hopefully they fit perfectly and I made no mistakes while measuring for my templates. -------- Tom CH801 Dynon D180 Lycoming IO-360 From Teledyne Mattituck www.computerclubcanada.com/plane.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5406#205406 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Hard Landing From: "ricklach" Thank You all for your kind comments. -------- Rick N35 26.700, W118 16.743 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5437#205437 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:06 PM PST US From: "John Swartout" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: BIG tires on 801 WOW, those are expensive tires. Seems like the 701 is really flourishing 25 years after its introduction. John On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 12:23 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > > Hi John, > > Don't know about 801s but look at this 701 for ideas: > > http://qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_027.htm > > > On 20 Sep 2008 at 21:01, John Swartout wrote: > > > > > Have any of you 801 builders put big tundra tires on your airplane? You > would have to put a huge > > fork on the nose gear, I would think. Kind of awkward on a tri-gear, but > I wonder if anybody's > > done it. > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: fuel flow for CH701 From: "SafeAirOne" Great study of the issue, Bob! I was curious about this problem and its solution in production aircraft. A web search revealed the same complaint from everything from Yaks to Cessnas. Of course, the Yaks are low-winged, but the discussion in their forum eventually turned to the problem in Cessnas. See: http://www.aviatorair.com/Site/Aviator_Forum.html >From what I gather, unless you can get a common vent line completely above the fuel level, (and we can't do this with any degree of elegance in the 701/801) you can only minimize the issue, as Cessna has, and not eliminate it. Interesting to note that the full tank is the one feeding the engine and siphoning the fuel out of the emptier tank to fill the vacuum created in the feeding tank. -Mark do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5450#205450 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions From: "mwpicard" IF I were to do the windows again, I would think about a suggestion from Doug Dugger to make one of the windows opening so you have easy access to the baggage compartment as well. martin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5452#205452 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith701801-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith701801-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith701801-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith701801-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.