---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/14/08: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:17 AM - Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%... (Matt Dralle) 1. 02:34 AM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (John Swartout) 2. 05:27 AM - Re: HDPE fuel tanks (kmccune) 3. 05:37 AM - Re: HDPE fuel tanks (BokKat) 4. 05:40 AM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (BokKat) 5. 06:04 AM - My Airport (Tommy Walker) 6. 06:34 AM - Re: My Airport (n85ae) 7. 07:06 AM - Re: My Airport (Harvey Richards) 8. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (MacDonald Doug) 9. 07:37 AM - Re: My Airport (Randall J. Hebert) 10. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (Ken Ryan) 11. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (John Swartout) 12. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (BokKat) 13. 09:42 AM - Re: HDPE fuel tanks (gburdett) 14. 09:43 AM - Re: My Airport (Coloradodan) 15. 10:01 AM - Re: My Airport (Tommy Walker) 16. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: My Airport (Randall J. Hebert) 17. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (John Bolding) 18. 11:40 AM - Re: 701 Wet Wing (Was HDPE fuel tanks) (MacDonald Doug) 19. 01:55 PM - 7R2-3 Rudder horn thickness (Bob Percival) 20. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (Curt Thompson) 21. 02:14 PM - Re: 7R2-3 Rudder horn thickness (Harvey Richards) 22. 02:17 PM - Re: Re: 7R2-3 Rudder horn thickness (Bob Percival) 23. 02:47 PM - Re: HDPE fuel tanks (kmccune) 24. 03:56 PM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (Joemotis@aol.com) 25. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (raymondj) 26. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (Curt Thompson) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:09 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%... As of the 13th, the Fund Raiser is currently about 30% behind last year in terms of the number of Contributions. Yet, oddly the number of messages posted per day is up by 10 to 20% on the average. It costs real money to run these Lists and they are supported 100% though your Contributions during the Fund Raiser. Won't you please take a minute right now to make your Contribution to keep these Lists up and running? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:13 AM PST US From: "John Swartout" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks Oh, I didn't know you were scratch-building. I believe I would measure after the ribs are done. I don't know how the screws are secured on the Maule--maybe they just use Tinnerman clips. Where can you have HDPE tanks made to order? On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 9:34 PM, kmccune wrote: > > So make the ribs and measure them before I give the guy the dimensions? As > I was going to have them made to print, just out of HDPE, well I was going > to make them slightly larger along the wing cord, but just a little. > I like the screw on cover idea,anyone hear of this being done on a 701 or > should I ask Zenith? > > -------- > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the > things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the > bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your > sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214046#214046 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks From: "kmccune" I stumbled across a guy who does this as part of his regular business. I have not gotten a quot yet, I'm still asking questions. He claims they will be less expensive then the ones from Zenith? I don't want to outright post his contact info yet, because as of yet I have no proof of his product. Though he claims to have made them for Avids and such. We will see, I posted this to see if anyone with more experience in this type of thing had objections. It sounds as though he makes it out of sheet stock and thermal/hot air welds them together. Says he can help with windshield too, though the one from Zenith is kinda nice. Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214160#214160 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:25 AM PST US From: "BokKat" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: HDPE fuel tanks Yes, I had the same problem. I put 4 tanks in mine, 2 on each wing. I put a sheet of thin cork on the bottom of the wing bay, then tried a tank for fit. I got it in and the it wouldn't come out! No matter what I did! I couldn't believe it, but four of my fellow experienced EAA'rs couldn't budge the thing either! Fortunately it was in the proper place with all the fittings attatched so I just left it there! But I live in fear of it ever starting to leak! I think if that ever happens I'll just use the other tank in the wing and seal off the leaking one. I had put in two tanks per wing, but would not do that again as I doubt I'd ever have to haul that much gas, but the other tank could save me having to tear my hair out (and the wing apart) to replace a leaking tank! Do not archinve. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Swartout To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:34 PM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: HDPE fuel tanks Don't get me started. I installed the aluminum tanks but they were a TIGHT fit. In fact I had to put some tapered strips of aluminum on top of the rib flanges, about .050 thick at the critical point adjacent to the rear edge of the tanks, because the tanks were taller at the aft end than the depth of the ribs at that point. If I'd wanted to devote more time to it I might have looked into plastic tanks like those beautiful tanks that come with RANS kits. The other problems with aluminum is there is certain to be oil canning, which may cause the aluminum to fatigue over time. If they ever leak, for any reason, you have to take the wing apart to get them out, a real shortcoming. Maule's have a screw-on cover in the top wing skin for fuel tank access, and excellent idea. Just my humble $0.02. John On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 7:31 PM, kmccune wrote: I there any pros or cons to having HDPE tanks made, instead of the AL ones? Keivn -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214018#214018 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:55 AM PST US From: "BokKat" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks I was going to put screw on covers but abandoned the idea when I saw I couldn't get the darned things out anyway, and I had a "spare" in each wing. Do not archinve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kmccune" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 8:34 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks > > So make the ribs and measure them before I give the guy the dimensions? As > I was going to have them made to print, just out of HDPE, well I was going > to make them slightly larger along the wing cord, but just a little. > I like the screw on cover idea,anyone hear of this being done on a 701 or > should I ask Zenith? > > -------- > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the > things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the > bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your > sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214046#214046 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: My Airport From: "Tommy Walker" Here's a shot over the cowl on final to the country airport where we keep our 701... We don't get many days of CAVU here in the Southeast. Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive -------- Tommy Walker N8701 - Anniston, AL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214169#214169 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/25a_117.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: My Airport From: "n85ae" Lot of tree's down there ... :) Nice pic, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214175#214175 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:06 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: My Airport From: "Harvey Richards" Thats beautiful looking country Tommy. -------- CH 701 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214185#214185 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:27 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks Kevin, I'll be the first to admit that the Zenith welded tanks are not exactly cheap. They are however very nicely welded and are extremely light. I have mine installed in my scratch built wings and they fit perfectly as per the plans. I am not familiar with HDPE as a material so I cannot comment as to it's suitability for use as a fuel tank. Are there any issues realted to auto fuel campatability? Also, one advantage to a metal fuel tank is the ability to ground it during fueling. I would also expect that the plastic material would be heavier than the 025 aluminum that the factory tanks are made from. As I mentioned above, the factory tanks are extremely light. Not trying to throw water on your idea, just wanted to add a couple of things to think about. I personally felt that the purchased fuel tanks were well worth what I paid for them. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada Do Not Archive --- On Fri, 11/14/08, kmccune wrote: > From: kmccune > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 7:27 AM > "kmccune" > > I stumbled across a guy who does this as part of his > regular business. I have not gotten a quot yet, I'm > still asking questions. He claims they will be less > expensive then the ones from Zenith? I don't want to > outright post his contact info yet, because as of yet I have > no proof of his product. Though he claims to have made them > for Avids and such. We will see, I posted this to see if > anyone with more experience in this type of thing had > objections. It sounds as though he makes it out of sheet > stock and thermal/hot air welds them together. Says he can > help with windshield too, though the one from Zenith is > kinda nice. > > Kevin > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: My Airport From: "Randall J. Hebert" Thanks for the wallpaper Tommy Randall J Hebert Do Not Archive Here's a shot over the cowl on final to the country airport where we keep our 701... We don't get many days of CAVU here in the Southeast. Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive -------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:21 AM PST US From: "Ken Ryan" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) On a recent tour of the factory, I had the opportunity to pick up and hold a completed 701 wing tank. I was amazed at how light it is. It weighs almost nothing at all. On 14 Nov 2008 at 7:11, MacDonald Doug wrote: > > Kevin, I'll be the first to admit that the Zenith welded tanks are not exactly cheap. They are however very nicely welded and are extremely light. I have mine installed in my scratch built wings and they fit perfectly as per the plans. > > I am not familiar with HDPE as a material so I cannot comment as to it's suitability for use as a fuel tank. Are there any issues realted to auto fuel campatability? Also, one advantage to a metal fuel tank is the ability to ground it during fueling. I would also expect that the plastic material would be heavier than the 025 aluminum that the factory tanks are made from. As I mentioned above, the factory tanks are extremely light. > > Not trying to throw water on your idea, just wanted to add a couple of things to think about. I personally felt that the purchased fuel tanks were well worth what I paid for them. > > Doug MacDonald > CH-701 Scratch Builder > NW Ontario, Canada > > Do Not Archive > > > > --- On Fri, 11/14/08, kmccune wrote: > > > From: kmccune > > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks > > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 7:27 AM > > "kmccune" > > > > I stumbled across a guy who does this as part of his > > regular business. I have not gotten a quot yet, I'm > > still asking questions. He claims they will be less > > expensive then the ones from Zenith? I don't want to > > outright post his contact info yet, because as of yet I have > > no proof of his product. Though he claims to have made them > > for Avids and such. We will see, I posted this to see if > > anyone with more experience in this type of thing had > > objections. It sounds as though he makes it out of sheet > > stock and thermal/hot air welds them together. Says he can > > help with windshield too, though the one from Zenith is > > kinda nice. > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:34 AM PST US From: "John Swartout" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks Hmm... I don't know anything about that type of tank. The ones from Rans appear to be injection molded translucent white plastic, kind of like a flat jerry can, but I don't know the type of plastic. I haven't actually heard of any Zenith tanks failing, after 10 years of lurking around these lists, but I haven't done an archive search on the subject either. On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 8:27 AM, kmccune wrote: > > I stumbled across a guy who does this as part of his regular business. I > have not gotten a quot yet, I'm still asking questions. He claims they > will be less expensive then the ones from Zenith? I don't want to outright > post his contact info yet, because as of yet I have no proof of his product. > Though he claims to have made them for Avids and such. We will see, I posted > this to see if anyone with more experience in this type of thing had > objections. It sounds as though he makes it out of sheet stock and > thermal/hot air welds them together. Says he can help with windshield too, > though the one from Zenith is kinda nice. > > Kevin > > -------- > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the > things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the > bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your > sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214160#214160 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:49 AM PST US From: "BokKat" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks Yes, they are really lightweight, and despite the trouble of shoehoring them in, I haven't had a bit of trouble with them! Be sure to get the whole wing bay ready in case you can't get them out like I did. Your first fitting may be your last! Hah! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Ryan" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks > > On a recent tour of the factory, I had the opportunity to pick up and hold > a > completed 701 wing tank. I was amazed at how light it is. It weighs almost > nothing at all. > > > On 14 Nov 2008 at 7:11, MacDonald Doug wrote: > >> >> >> Kevin, I'll be the first to admit that the Zenith welded tanks are not >> exactly cheap. They are however very nicely welded and are extremely >> light. I have mine installed in my scratch built wings and they fit >> perfectly as per the plans. >> >> I am not familiar with HDPE as a material so I cannot comment as to it's >> suitability for use as a fuel tank. Are there any issues realted to auto >> fuel campatability? Also, one advantage to a metal fuel tank is the >> ability to ground it during fueling. I would also expect that the plastic >> material would be heavier than the 025 aluminum that the factory tanks >> are made from. As I mentioned above, the factory tanks are extremely >> light. >> >> Not trying to throw water on your idea, just wanted to add a couple of >> things to think about. I personally felt that the purchased fuel tanks >> were well worth what I paid for them. >> >> Doug MacDonald >> CH-701 Scratch Builder >> NW Ontario, Canada >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> >> >> --- On Fri, 11/14/08, kmccune wrote: >> >> > From: kmccune >> > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks >> > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com >> > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 7:27 AM >> > "kmccune" >> > >> > I stumbled across a guy who does this as part of his >> > regular business. I have not gotten a quot yet, I'm >> > still asking questions. He claims they will be less >> > expensive then the ones from Zenith? I don't want to >> > outright post his contact info yet, because as of yet I have >> > no proof of his product. Though he claims to have made them >> > for Avids and such. We will see, I posted this to see if >> > anyone with more experience in this type of thing had >> > objections. It sounds as though he makes it out of sheet >> > stock and thermal/hot air welds them together. Says he can >> > help with windshield too, though the one from Zenith is >> > kinda nice. >> > >> > Kevin >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:02 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks From: "gburdett" Rotationally molded cross linked PE is widely used in fuel and other storage tanks. HD linear PE that is fabbed from sheets and thermo -welded may be a little iffy. You can get a lot of good info by simply checking out PE FuelTanks. A 1/4 inch wall manufactured tank might be available from regular sources of after market auto products. They do have a temperature limit which may not be a consideration for your use. I'm not sure the PE would be lighter than aluminum though. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214220#214220 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: My Airport From: "Coloradodan" Thanks for sharing. Makes me want to go flying. -------- 22 hours of FLIGHT time. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214221#214221 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: My Airport From: "Tommy Walker" Randall, Yes, it is my wallpaper too. Sorry we didn't get to meet in September. Tommy Do Not Archive randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co wrote: > Thanks for the wallpaper Tommy > > Randall J Hebert > > Do Not Archive > > > Here's a shot over the cowl on final to the country airport where we > keep our 701... > We don't get many days of CAVU here in the Southeast. > > Tommy Walker in Alabama > Do Not Archive > > -------- -------- Tommy Walker N8701 - Anniston, AL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214223#214223 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: My Airport From: "Randall J. Hebert" The trip has been delayed until March or April. I'll try then. Randall J Hebert Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:50 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks Two other options that might be useful pop up in my feeble mind. For the scratch builders it would be a simple matter to trace out the main rib form block on a piece of paper and remove 1/8" (or whatever you feel comfortable with), make a couple of ribs for the ends and sheet over with 025, sealing everything up with proseal. My RV3 tanks have lasted 30 plus yrs and 2000 hrs with only one leak. Another thought , I'm giving SERIOUS thought to this , is just making that wing bay wet by sealing up the ribs, spar, skins, I will put the opening on the bottom to keep the top lifting surface as clean as possible. Top and bottom skins will be 025 in this area. Advantages are , lighter, cheaper, easier to build and will carry more fuel for the space used. Haven't passed it by my aero engineer buddies yet but considering the fuel was there anyway I don't THINK there will be much to change, BUT I'm wrong a lot so we'll see. LO&SLO John ----- Original Message ----- From: "MacDonald Doug" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks > > > Kevin, I'll be the first to admit that the Zenith welded tanks are not > exactly cheap. They are however very nicely welded and are extremely > light. I have mine installed in my scratch built wings and they fit > perfectly as per the plans. > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:57 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Wet Wing (Was HDPE fuel tanks) John, I know of a builder near me that is planning on going with a wet wing in his 701. He has previously built a RV-6 so has expirience with this concept. I believe that he has Zenair/Chris Heintz approval for his modificatons. I recall they include heavier skins and stiffening grooves in the rib webs but I don't remember what else was involved. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada Do Not Archive --- On Fri, 11/14/08, John Bolding wrote: > From: John Bolding > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 1:04 PM > Bolding" > > Two other options that might be useful pop up in my feeble > mind. > > For the scratch builders it would be a simple matter to > trace out the main rib form block on a piece of paper and > remove 1/8" (or whatever you feel comfortable with), > make a couple of ribs for the ends and sheet over with 025, > sealing everything up with proseal. My RV3 tanks have > lasted 30 plus yrs and 2000 hrs with only one leak. > > Another thought , I'm giving SERIOUS thought to this , > is just making that wing bay wet by sealing up the ribs, > spar, skins, I will put the opening on the bottom to keep > the top lifting surface as clean as possible. Top and bottom > skins will be 025 in this area. Advantages are , lighter, > cheaper, easier to build and will carry more fuel for the > space used. Haven't passed it by my aero engineer > buddies yet but considering the fuel was there anyway I > don't THINK there will be much to change, BUT I'm > wrong a lot so we'll see. > > LO&SLO John > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: 7R2-3 Rudder horn thickness From: "Bob Percival" Can someone give me the 701 rudder horn thickness? I'm scrounging through a pile of 6061-T6 scrap and don't have my plans in front of me. Many thanks in advance DO NOT ARCHIVE Bob Percival 701/Vair - finally getting off my dime and building! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:34 PM PST US From: "Curt Thompson" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks Attached is a picture of one of the two tanks I made. I'm scratch building and made form blocks a little shorter than the wing form blocks. I put a baffle in the middle to keep the full tank from bulging. I was going to make the tank deeper but decided I didn't want to mess with the CG. The cap is an ACS flush mount model. There is an aluminum block in the corner where the fuel outlet is and the drain plug is also in that area. The vent line will run up from the bottom in the corner where the cap is (I riveted a 1/4" aluminum plate and threaded in for an 1/8" NPT fitting). The fuel sender is the normal one and I got it from an off-road-vehicle supply house. I made a new ring with threaded holes for the sender to bolt onto and Pro-Sealed it to the inside of the tank; this was so I could have a larger area for the sender gasket to seal. There is also a fitting next to the sender for the fuel return if I go that route (hot fuel system?). Used "closed end" rivets. I pressure tested it for several days using the balloon method. The tank is completely enclosed in the wing (not a wet tank system). I put cork strips between the tank and the skin. I just finished riveting the wings yesterday (anyone have a cure for hand cramping?). BTW, I found out that you can clean up Proseal with lacquer thinner. Curt Redmond, WA, USA Scratch building CH701 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Bolding Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks Two other options that might be useful pop up in my feeble mind. For the scratch builders it would be a simple matter to trace out the main rib form block on a piece of paper and remove 1/8" (or whatever you feel comfortable with), make a couple of ribs for the ends and sheet over with 025, sealing everything up with proseal. My RV3 tanks have lasted 30 plus yrs and 2000 hrs with only one leak. Another thought , I'm giving SERIOUS thought to this , is just making that wing bay wet by sealing up the ribs, spar, skins, I will put the opening on the bottom to keep the top lifting surface as clean as possible. Top and bottom skins will be 025 in this area. Advantages are , lighter, cheaper, easier to build and will carry more fuel for the space used. Haven't passed it by my aero engineer buddies yet but considering the fuel was there anyway I don't THINK there will be much to change, BUT I'm wrong a lot so we'll see. LO&SLO John ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 7R2-3 Rudder horn thickness From: "Harvey Richards" The Rudder horn is .090 thick. -------- CH 701 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214256#214256 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:35 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: 7R2-3 Rudder horn thickness From: "Bob Percival" Thanks Harvey do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Harvey Richards Sent: Fri 11/14/2008 3:14 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 7R2-3 Rudder horn thickness The Rudder horn is .090 thick. -------- CH 701 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214256#214256 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks From: "kmccune" Thanks for all the replies, I know it would be heavier then the AL ones, but I don't what to learn to weld AL just for these tanks and I don't want to pay Zenith the asking price for them. I had not considered the grounding issue. What do they do in this case? I do like the idea of two "Ribs" with pro-seal though, as one of the reasons for looking for something else, was to get about 24 gallons total. 30 years John, thats good enough for me! Curt, I really like that tank, what are closed ended rivets? I assume they are not solid rivets, because you would not be able to set the second side. I also assume that you used pro-seal on the joints? Thanks Again -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214268#214268 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:42 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks In plastic fuel cans there is a brass pad on the bottom similar to a rivet that is in contact with the fuel and terra firma when you are filling it. (At least when the govt. buys them.) I would surmise that a similar installation with bonding it to the airframe would work. Only surmising here, your mileage may vary. I would also want to think that the ground to the airframe would be a text book example. And not really knowing, maybe being enclosed in the wing would diminish all of the difference in potential. Joe Motis do not archive In a message dated 11/14/2008 2:47:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, kmccune@somtel.net writes: I had not considered the grounding issue. What do they do in this case? **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:47 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks Greetings, Has anyone considered making the tanks out of stainless steel or some other material besides aluminum? I have seen corrosion problems in boats with aluminum fuel tanks that make me seriously search for alternatives. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Thompson" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks > Attached is a picture of one of the two tanks I made. I'm scratch > building > and made form blocks a little shorter than the wing form blocks. I put a > baffle in the middle to keep the full tank from bulging. I was going to > make the tank deeper but decided I didn't want to mess with the CG. The > cap > is an ACS flush mount model. There is an aluminum block in the corner > where > the fuel outlet is and the drain plug is also in that area. The vent line > will run up from the bottom in the corner where the cap is (I riveted a > 1/4" > aluminum plate and threaded in for an 1/8" NPT fitting). The fuel sender > is > the normal one and I got it from an off-road-vehicle supply house. I made > a > new ring with threaded holes for the sender to bolt onto and Pro-Sealed it > to the inside of the tank; this was so I could have a larger area for the > sender gasket to seal. There is also a fitting next to the sender for the > fuel return if I go that route (hot fuel system?). Used "closed end" > rivets. I pressure tested it for several days using the balloon method. > The tank is completely enclosed in the wing (not a wet tank system). I > put > cork strips between the tank and the skin. I just finished riveting the > wings yesterday (anyone have a cure for hand cramping?). > > BTW, I found out that you can clean up Proseal with lacquer thinner. > > Curt > Redmond, WA, USA > Scratch building CH701 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Bolding > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 11:04 AM > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks > > > > Two other options that might be useful pop up in my feeble mind. > > For the scratch builders it would be a simple matter to trace out the main > rib form block on a piece of paper and remove 1/8" (or whatever you feel > comfortable with), make a couple of ribs for the ends and sheet over with > 025, sealing everything up with proseal. My RV3 tanks have lasted 30 plus > yrs and 2000 hrs with only one leak. > > Another thought , I'm giving SERIOUS thought to this , is just making that > wing bay wet by sealing up the ribs, spar, skins, I will put the opening > on > the bottom to keep the top lifting surface as clean as possible. Top and > bottom skins will be 025 in this area. Advantages are , lighter, cheaper, > easier to build and will carry more fuel for the space used. Haven't > passed > > it by my aero engineer buddies yet but considering the fuel was there > anyway > > I don't THINK there will be much to change, BUT I'm wrong a lot so we'll > see. > > LO&SLO John > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 7:32 PM ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:34 PM PST US From: "Curt Thompson" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks I got the Closed End Blind Rivets from here: http://www.hansonrivet.com/w22.htm The part number is: PASD401H ($58.54 / 1000) I also got some PASD403H ($13.22 / 100) to attach the flanges. I think ACS sells something like this too. Curt -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kmccune Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:47 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks Thanks for all the replies, I know it would be heavier then the AL ones, but I don't what to learn to weld AL just for these tanks and I don't want to pay Zenith the asking price for them. I had not considered the grounding issue. What do they do in this case? I do like the idea of two "Ribs" with pro-seal though, as one of the reasons for looking for something else, was to get about 24 gallons total. 30 years John, thats good enough for me! Curt, I really like that tank, what are closed ended rivets? I assume they are not solid rivets, because you would not be able to set the second side. I also assume that you used pro-seal on the joints? Thanks Again ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith701801-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith701801-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith701801-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith701801-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.