Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:25 AM - What Listers Have Been Saying (Matt Dralle)
1. 01:30 AM - fuel caps (Victor Menkal)
2. 09:37 AM - Re: Flush fuel caps (ricklach)
3. 10:18 AM - Re: Flush fuel caps (Brady)
4. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: Flush fuel caps (Craig Payne)
5. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: Flush fuel caps (Craig Payne)
6. 12:23 PM - Re: Flush fuel caps (Brady)
7. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Flush fuel caps (Craig Payne)
8. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc)
9. 01:49 PM - gearbox Slipper clutch (Alvin Rose)
10. 01:54 PM - Re: Flush fuel caps (Brady)
11. 04:24 PM - Re: gearbox Slipper clutch (BokKat)
12. 08:31 PM - Re: Re: HDPE fuel tanks (Curt Thompson)
13. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Flush fuel caps (Curt Thompson)
14. 09:12 PM - Re: Re: Flush fuel caps (raymondj)
15. 09:22 PM - Re: Re: Flush fuel caps (Curt Thompson)
16. 10:16 PM - Re: Re: Flush fuel caps (raymondj)
17. 10:36 PM - Re: Re: Flush fuel caps (Curt Thompson)
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| Subject: | What Listers Have Been Saying |
Wow! Many of the members making a List Support Contribution this year have been
using the Comments field to leave a personal message about the Lists. Thank
you! I have included a number of them below. Please read over a few and see
if you perhaps can echo some of the same sentiments regarding the value of the
Lists to you...
There is only a couple more days left for this year's List Fund Raiser and we're
still way behind previous years. If you've been waiting until the last minute
to show your support, Now is the Time! Please make your Contribution and pick
up a great gift at the same time!
By Credit Card or Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or By Personal Check:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
Thank you in advance!!
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forums Administrator
Here is some of the great feedback members have been including along with their
personal Contributions this year...
Over the years, the info I have received from the RV-List has
saved me thousands of dollars, and dozens of hours of time by
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Kevin H
Valuable service. Best List(s) on the Internet!
George A
Please accept this token not as an indicator of what
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Lew G
Great information and entertainment.
Tim V
Thanks again for another great year of service. This
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Bill T
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Richard D
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..another year of fantastic service.
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Lists were a great help while building HRII N561FS.
John S
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George R
Good service.
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The List is an invaluable resource!
William C
AeroElectric list is a great source of info and learning!
Janice J
Thank you, Matt for being there for us making it all happen
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Sam S
Thank you for providing a great venue. You definitely hit
the nail on the head with your solicitation asking if
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certainly do and when I move from a dreamer to a builder, I
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Joe S
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Hans-Peter R
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Such a great selection of valuable forums!
David G
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Walt E
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Robert P
Thank you for another great year!
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I could not do this without you...
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I believe I've been a list member for over a decade
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Tim L
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Hendrik W
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Thanx for the info Tommy. Brady those caps look great! Can I
ask how you managed that slick installation. From the pic looks
like the the flange is on top of the skin. I thought there was some
clearance between the tank and top skin.
Appreciate the help guys.
Regards Vic
701 tail feathers complete skinning wings
Whitehorse Yukon
vmenkal@mac.com
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
Great job Brady, could you provide some more info about the installation. What
type of caps and where did you get them? How do they attach to the fuel tank?
How did you attach them to the skin? Anything you can provide would be of great
help as I have wanted to make this mod for a while but just havent gotten there
yet. So it looked like now is the time.
Thanks
Rick
--------
Rick
N35 26.700, W118 16.743
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216878#216878
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
Vic,
The Caps are the same ones the 601 boys use. I got them from Aircraft spruce #
05-28666.
To get the flange to sit flush with the skins I had to adjust the angle of the
threaded bung that is welded into the tank. Because I welded my own tanks and
I knew I wanted flush caps from the out set, I just welded them in at the correct
angle.
I don't think this would be an easy retro fit. :)
To keep the skin tight to the flange I put a piece of soft foam (like a sponge)
between the skin & the tank to evenly hold it up and then just screwed the cap
flange down over it.
Clear as mud? :)
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216883#216883
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
So how do you vent your tanks? The caps on the 601XL are not vented but they
are on the 701. Did you add a vent when you built your tank?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brady
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:18 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Flush fuel caps
<brady@magnificentmachine.com>
Vic,
The Caps are the same ones the 601 boys use. I got them from Aircraft spruce
# 05-28666.
To get the flange to sit flush with the skins I had to adjust the angle of
the threaded bung that is welded into the tank. Because I welded my own
tanks and I knew I wanted flush caps from the out set, I just welded them in
at the correct angle.
I don't think this would be an easy retro fit. :)
To keep the skin tight to the flange I put a piece of soft foam (like a
sponge) between the skin & the tank to evenly hold it up and then just
screwed the cap flange down over it.
Clear as mud? :)
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216883#216883
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
One 601XL builder (Patrick W.) used the foam sleeves you put around a beer
can to support the skin around the neck.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brady
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:18 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Flush fuel caps
<brady@magnificentmachine.com>
Vic,
The Caps are the same ones the 601 boys use. I got them from Aircraft spruce
# 05-28666.
To get the flange to sit flush with the skins I had to adjust the angle of
the threaded bung that is welded into the tank. Because I welded my own
tanks and I knew I wanted flush caps from the out set, I just welded them in
at the correct angle.
I don't think this would be an easy retro fit. :)
To keep the skin tight to the flange I put a piece of soft foam (like a
sponge) between the skin & the tank to evenly hold it up and then just
screwed the cap flange down over it.
Clear as mud? :)
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216883#216883
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
Ah! :D
101 uses for the BEER COZY!
I love it!
But wait! [Shocked]
what if your beer gets warm!
Oh crap!
quick! i need another beer cozy! [Laughing]
The tanks are vented through the bottom like a Cessna tank.
the vent tube is cut at a 45* angle at the top and the bottom, it is positioned
so that it is at the farthest forward and upper corner. It is welded to the bottom
of the tank and the 45* angles face forward so as to provide positive pressure
in flight.
I figured if gravity feed tanks on high wing aircraft have been vented like this
for almost a hundred years or so it should be good enough for my 701 :)
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216897#216897
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
Intentionally or unintentionally you have duplicated the vents in the 601XL
tanks.
My only question about the beer can insulator is if the foam rubber
disintegrates in contact with fuel.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brady
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Flush fuel caps
<brady@magnificentmachine.com>
Ah! :D
101 uses for the BEER COZY!
I love it!
But wait! [Shocked]
what if your beer gets warm!
Oh crap!
quick! i need another beer cozy! [Laughing]
The tanks are vented through the bottom like a Cessna tank.
the vent tube is cut at a 45* angle at the top and the bottom, it is
positioned so that it is at the farthest forward and upper corner. It is
welded to the bottom of the tank and the 45* angles face forward so as to
provide positive pressure in flight.
I figured if gravity feed tanks on high wing aircraft have been vented like
this for almost a hundred years or so it should be good enough for my 701 :)
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216897#216897
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: HDPE fuel tanks |
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Message 9
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| Subject: | gearbox Slipper clutch |
Hi Guys
What are the symptoms of problems with
the slipper clutch in the 912uls..Sometimes
my 912 seems like it loses its power when I reduce power
like on approach..It is like the prop is not pushing
the 701 would this be a symptom or what happens when the
clutch is slipping..My 701 has 150 hours since new.
Also could it be the carburetors out of sync..I think it runs a little
rough then it used to..I notice the throttle cable has stretched
about 1/4 inch to the right carburetor throttle lever
any help would be appreciated
A.R
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
Craig,
I had considered that as well so I seated the flanges in a compound call 3M 5200
which (from what I understand) was developed by 3M for Boeing.
This stuff is common to boat builders and has the reputation for being very tenacious
stuff.
I have used it extensively in the marine industry and I have seen it De laminate
the best of composite layups on dis assembly.
there is a liquid anti adhesive that allows you to un-glue it but it is slow and
expensive.
I have found that a hot putty knife is best used to cut the bond.
I have not seen how it reacts to long term exposure to gasoline but that's why
we call it experimental. :)
I plan on being very careful during fueling and promise not to spill much :)
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216907#216907
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: gearbox Slipper clutch |
It normally shouldn't slip while reducing power. When they are first
started up they shake a bit, which is the slipper clutch slipping as I
understand it. Rotax cautions to NOT use fully synthetic oil as the
slipper clutch will spip too easily. Semisynthetic is recommended.
Running rough otherwise I would bet on unbalanced carburetors, which can
make the clutch slip, too. I saw a Kitfox a while ago that was so
unbalanced it shook like a wet dog and the slipper clutch seemed to be
slipping irregularly, too. Smooth as a baby's bum now, after balancing
the carbs!
Carb balancing is one of the most important thing to do to make them run
smoothly! And to make them reach TBO, too! Balance should be checked
each year at the annual/condn inspection, and IMO is the first thing to
check if it runs rough at any time.
If the cable seems to have stretched 1/4 inch, wow, that's a lot and
would make it run really rough!! Even the mechanical balancing would be
way, way off!
There is an excellent video on the Rotax Owner.com website on balancing
the carbs, and there'd probably be quite a few owners who could help you
in your local EAA group! Not difficult to do, but really important.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alvin Rose
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:49 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: gearbox Slipper clutch
Hi Guys
What are the symptoms of problems with
the slipper clutch in the 912uls..Sometimes
my 912 seems like it loses its power when I reduce power
like on approach..It is like the prop is not pushing
the 701 would this be a symptom or what happens when the
clutch is slipping..My 701 has 150 hours since new.
Also could it be the carburetors out of sync..I think it runs a little
rough then it used to..I notice the throttle cable has stretched
about 1/4 inch to the right carburetor throttle lever
any help would be appreciated
A.R
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: HDPE fuel tanks |
Thanks for the pictures Ron.
Those are the ACS caps I used. They are the sealed (non vented) kind.
They
are heavier than I expected. Appear to be quite robust.
The hole in the wing skin is about 3mm larger radius than the outside of
the
cap flange. I put a ring of flooring subfloor cork between the tank and
the
skin. Keep in mind that my tank matches the profile of the wing. I
might
fill the gap with ProSeal or the =933M 5200=94 stuff that Brady wrote
about.
The ring around the ACS cap had six indents that I used to drill out for
the
rivets. I then eyeballed it and drill six more holes (for a total of
12).
I then ProSealed and riveted the cap to the tank.
My vent is pretty much as Brady described his (actually I think I stole
the
idea from him). Except I ProSealed a =BC=94 flange to the bottom of my
tank and
threaded it with a 1/8=94 NPT. I will screw a vent tube in that
eventually.
My fuel outlet from the tank comes out the side so I can keep the fuel
lines
in the wing. I still have about =BC =93 of fuel I can=92t get to but at
least my
drain valve is below the fuel outlet. I heard a rumor that certified
planes
are required to have a certain about of unusable fuel in the tank '
8oz?
I think the flange I made for the fuel sender was 0.250=94 AL. I made
it
using some round whole saws obtained from Home Depot. I had to tap them
for
10-32 as you describe. The ring was ProSealed in (but not the fuel
sender).
Someone wrote in the archives that the rubber gasket alone would seal
the
fuel sender. It seemed to me that fuel would leak around the heads of
the
bolts. I tested this theory and sure enough ' leaks around the bolt
heads
on the sender. I sealed my sender with Permatex #59214 from B&B Auto.
I
called a Permatex factory guy and he said the stuff is fuel tolerant as
long
as you let it cure for 24 hours before you expose it to fuel. It will be
months before I get to that point.
I rinsed my tanks out with mo-gas before I put them on the wings. I
wanted
to see if any ProSeal debris would come out. I dumped them out into a
coffee filter. The only thing I got was a little bit of lint from the
cotton rag I used to wipe them down (with acetone) before sealing them
up.
Let me know if I didn=92t get to all your questions.
Curt
Plans building, CH701.
p.s. Working on the slats today. I should be ready to rivet them
tomorrow.
My Zenith pneumatic rivet puller is on order. My H.F. puller is dead
(and
my hands are tired). I=92m pretty much done with the rudder, elevator,
horizontal stab, both wings, and flaperons. The fuse is next. I=92ve
been
working since March. This is going much quicker than I expected.
_____
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
R.D.(Ron)
Leclerc
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 1:45 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks
Thanks for the great photos Curt...
<snip>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
I'd use a sealed cap and vent the tank. There are messages in the archive
about fuel getting siphoned out of vented caps (unless they have the forward
facing vent tube brazed to the cap).
Curt
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
Greetings,
I'm not familiar with the way Cessna vents their tanks. Can you refer
me to a diagram?
Thanks,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brady" <brady@magnificentmachine.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 2:22 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Flush fuel caps
> <brady@magnificentmachine.com>
>
> Ah! :D
> 101 uses for the BEER COZY!
> I love it!
> But wait! [Shocked]
> what if your beer gets warm!
> Oh crap!
> quick! i need another beer cozy! [Laughing]
>
> The tanks are vented through the bottom like a Cessna tank.
> the vent tube is cut at a 45* angle at the top and the bottom, it is
> positioned so that it is at the farthest forward and upper corner. It is
> welded to the bottom of the tank and the 45* angles face forward so as to
> provide positive pressure in flight.
>
> I figured if gravity feed tanks on high wing aircraft have been vented
> like this for almost a hundred years or so it should be good enough for my
> 701 :)
>
> --------
> Brady McCormick
> Poulsbo, WA
> www.magnificentmachine.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216897#216897
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8:17 AM
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
Raymond,
Here is a Cessna Tech Note on "Uneven Fuel Feeding in Single Engine
Cessna's":
http://www.moonflight.org/Documents/Fflow.pdf
It has a lot of info about the fuel system.
Curt
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
Curt,
Thanks for the reply. Lots of schematics and info. I'll put that one in
my library.
I'm still looking for a diagram for the physical setup of the vent. I
can't visualize the way it was described.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Thompson" <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: Flush fuel caps
> <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net>
>
> Raymond,
>
> Here is a Cessna Tech Note on "Uneven Fuel Feeding in Single Engine
> Cessna's":
> http://www.moonflight.org/Documents/Fflow.pdf
>
> It has a lot of info about the fuel system.
>
> Curt
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8:17 AM
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flush fuel caps |
Here is a sketch of what I think Brady was writing about.
Curt
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