Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:03 AM - Chat Room Reminder (George Race)
2. 06:17 AM - 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (Geoff Heap)
3. 08:40 AM - 701 Wing Tank Question (ricklach)
4. 08:42 AM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (MacDonald Doug)
5. 08:58 AM - Re: 701 Wing Tank Question (Curt Thompson)
6. 09:20 AM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (George Race)
7. 12:16 PM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (JG)
8. 12:32 PM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (MacDonald Doug)
9. 02:33 PM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (JG)
10. 04:29 PM - Re: 701 Wing Tank Question (kmccune)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Chat Room Reminder |
Please join us for the Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM
Eastern Time.
<blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::http://www.m
ykitairplane.com/chat/> http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
George
Do Not Archiv
Message 2
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| Subject: | 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment |
Working on my doors brought to mind the recent incident of a door flipping up in
the slipstream. From what I remember the handle smashed a hole in the underside
of the wing then the whole door ripped off and caused damage to the H. Stab
and rudder. This sounds pretty catastrophic to me. The plane landed OK. I cant
find the post now. I believe it was in Nov/Dec 2008. Any one else remember
this?
Any way, considering that most pilots I know have had a Cessna door pop open in
flight (Personally Ive had this happen twice during climb outs) it seems that
it WILL happen sooner or later to me. (Dont know about you). I might consider
moving the handle to the fwd lower corner as I've seen in an 801 Photo. This
looks like it would better prevent the wind getting in the front door line, although
in the incident I read about the pilot thought the door handle was in the
closed position but stated that it might have not been in the full closed position.
This is a problem with the top hinged door that I never considered until
this post. I can also look over my old plans to consider the original hinge
location. ....Geoff....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222947#222947
Message 3
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| Subject: | 701 Wing Tank Question |
I have a question for all you 701 Historian and techies. Why did Chris go with
a short 10-gal tank and install a Wing Tank Channel (7V11-1K). Rather than a 12-gal
Tank that would go all the way to the rear Spar? I was just looking at Stefan
and Ken Carpenter 750 wing assembly photos and the short tank design is
carried through there also. Everything is done for a reason and I was just curious
if any one really knows or asked the factory.
Rick
--------
Rick
N35 26.700, W118 16.743
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222967#222967
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment |
Geoff, I believe it was John Gilpen (of the vortex generator fame) that originally
posted this incident. I am not sure if the incident was with standard doors
or with the new bubble doors. I do know however, the new bubble doors (picked
up in Sept)that I have for my 701 have the latches at the lower front corner
just as you suggested.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
Closing up the wings for the final time.
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Geoff Heap <stol10@comcast.net> wrote:
> From: Geoff Heap <stol10@comcast.net>
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 8:16 AM
> Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
>
> Working on my doors brought to mind the recent incident of
> a door flipping up in the slipstream. From what I remember
> the handle smashed a hole in the underside of the wing then
> the whole door ripped off and caused damage to the H. Stab
> and rudder. This sounds pretty catastrophic to me. The plane
> landed OK. I cant find the post now. I believe it
> was in Nov/Dec 2008. Any one else remember this?
> Any way, considering that most pilots I know have had a
> Cessna door pop open in flight (Personally Ive had
> this happen twice during climb outs) it seems that it WILL
> happen sooner or later to me. (Dont know about you).
> I might consider moving the handle to the fwd lower corner
> as I've seen in an 801 Photo. This looks like it would
> better prevent the wind getting in the front door line,
> although in the incident I read about the pilot thought the
> door handle was in the closed position but stated that it
> might have not been in the full closed position. This is a
> problem with the top hinged door that I never considered
> until this post. I can also look over my old plans to
> consider the original hinge location. ....Geoff....
Message 5
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| Subject: | 701 Wing Tank Question |
Could it be the additional rearward shift in CG as you rotate and the fuel sloshes
to the rear of the tank? I was going to make my tanks deeper but decided
against this due to the possible issue (it was just a theory on my part with not
analysis or running this by anyone else).
Curt
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricklach
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:40 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 Wing Tank Question
I have a question for all you 701 Historian and techies. Why did Chris go with
a short 10-gal tank and install a Wing Tank Channel (7V11-1K). Rather than a 12-gal
Tank that would go all the way to the rear Spar? I was just looking at Stefan
and Ken Carpenter 750 wing assembly photos and the short tank design is
carried through there also. Everything is done for a reason and I was just curious
if any one really knows or asked the factory.
Rick
--------
Rick
N35 26.700, W118 16.743
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222967#222967
Message 6
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| Subject: | 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment |
I also had the bubble doors with the latches forward at the bottom of the
door.
A very simple way of assuring they stay latched is to install one of the
small diameter bungee cords that are available to the structure below the
door handle. Close the hooks on the bungee so they cannot come loose.
Close the door and then slip the loop of the small bungee up over the door
handle. If the bungee is hooked directly below the center of the inside
door handle it will easily stay in place during flight assuring it will not
be somehow bumped and opened.
George
http://www.mykitairplane.com
>
> Working on my doors brought to mind the recent incident of a door
> flipping up in the slipstream.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment |
You can access all the details of that incident, including photos and an
improved latch system that we installed on both our local 701's at
http://www.stolspeed.com/701-door-warning
This was the original door design, but in re-building we strengthened
the gussets to make it much more rigid. The new latch system is easy to
adopt, using the same position for the handle, but with the weight of
the handle tending to hold it closed, and a longer tang to engage the
frame so that it takes much more rotation to disengage. Also includes a
sliding rod that engages the rear of the door, keeping it well sealed.
It was simple to do and works real well.
JohnG
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Heap
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:16 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment
<stol10@comcast.net>
Working on my doors brought to mind the recent incident of a door
flipping up in the slipstream. From what I remember the handle smashed a
hole in the underside of the wing then the whole door ripped off and
caused damage to the H. Stab and rudder. This sounds pretty catastrophic
to me. The plane landed OK. I can?Tt find the post now. I believe it
was in Nov/Dec 2008. Any one else remember this?
Any way, considering that most pilots I know have had a Cessna door
pop open in flight (Personally I?Tve had this happen twice during
climb outs) it seems that it WILL happen sooner or later to me.
(Don?Tt know about you). I might consider moving the handle to the
fwd lower corner as I've seen in an 801 Photo. This looks like it would
better prevent the wind getting in the front door line, although in the
incident I read about the pilot thought the door handle was in the
closed position but stated that it might have not been in the full
closed position. This is a problem with the top hinged door that I never
considered until this post. I can also look over my old plans to
consider the original hinge location. ....Geoff....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222947#222947
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment |
John, I was correct that the original post was from you :)
Just for intrest sake, while the new door latch assembly from Zenith doesn't have
the additional rod to the back, the front latch tang that you are using is
similar is size to the newer Zenith ones.
Additionally, if anyone is using the new fiberglass edged bubble doors, I don't
think that this would be much of an issue, they are pretty solid and even seem
to have some pre-load to them that should keep them tightly closed at the back
edge.
Definately with the older style lexan/aluminum doors, I could see this opening
in flight sort of thing happening.
Happy building
Do Not Archive
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, JG <vgstol@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> From: JG <vgstol@bigpond.net.au>
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 2:14 PM
> You can access all the details of that incident, including
> photos and an improved latch system that we installed on
> both our local 701's at
> http://www.stolspeed.com/701-door-warning
>
> This was the original door design, but in re-building we
> strengthened the gussets to make it much more rigid. The
> new latch system is easy to adopt, using the same position
> for the handle, but with the weight of the handle tending to
> hold it closed, and a longer tang to engage the frame so
> that it takes much more rotation to disengage. Also
> includes a sliding rod that engages the rear of the door,
> keeping it well sealed. It was simple to do and works real
> well.
>
> JohnG
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment |
Yep, still here Doug. Just lurking right now, but some really
interesting tuft testing coming up.
JohnG
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: MacDonald Doug
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment
<dougsnash@yahoo.com>
John, I was correct that the original post was from you :)
Just for intrest sake, while the new door latch assembly from Zenith
doesn't have the additional rod to the back, the front latch tang that
you are using is similar is size to the newer Zenith ones.
Additionally, if anyone is using the new fiberglass edged bubble
doors, I don't think that this would be much of an issue, they are
pretty solid and even seem to have some pre-load to them that should
keep them tightly closed at the back edge.
Definately with the older style lexan/aluminum doors, I could see this
opening in flight sort of thing happening.
Happy building
Do Not Archive
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, JG <vgstol@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> From: JG <vgstol@bigpond.net.au>
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 2:14 PM
> You can access all the details of that incident, including
> photos and an improved latch system that we installed on
> both our local 701's at
> http://www.stolspeed.com/701-door-warning
>
> This was the original door design, but in re-building we
> strengthened the gussets to make it much more rigid. The
> new latch system is easy to adopt, using the same position
> for the handle, but with the weight of the handle tending to
> hold it closed, and a longer tang to engage the frame so
> that it takes much more rotation to disengage. Also
> includes a sliding rod that engages the rear of the door,
> keeping it well sealed. It was simple to do and works real
> well.
>
> JohnG
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wing Tank Question |
That is a good question, I am actually planning on making mine a little larger.
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223052#223052
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