---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/05/09: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:03 AM - Chat Room Reminder (George Race) 2. 06:17 AM - 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (Geoff Heap) 3. 08:40 AM - 701 Wing Tank Question (ricklach) 4. 08:42 AM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (MacDonald Doug) 5. 08:58 AM - Re: 701 Wing Tank Question (Curt Thompson) 6. 09:20 AM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (George Race) 7. 12:16 PM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (JG) 8. 12:32 PM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (MacDonald Doug) 9. 02:33 PM - Re: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment (JG) 10. 04:29 PM - Re: 701 Wing Tank Question (kmccune) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:04 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith701801-List: Chat Room Reminder Please join us for the Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern Time. http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George Do Not Archiv ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:25 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment From: "Geoff Heap" Working on my doors brought to mind the recent incident of a door flipping up in the slipstream. From what I remember the handle smashed a hole in the underside of the wing then the whole door ripped off and caused damage to the H. Stab and rudder. This sounds pretty catastrophic to me. The plane landed OK. I cant find the post now. I believe it was in Nov/Dec 2008. Any one else remember this? Any way, considering that most pilots I know have had a Cessna door pop open in flight (Personally Ive had this happen twice during climb outs) it seems that it WILL happen sooner or later to me. (Dont know about you). I might consider moving the handle to the fwd lower corner as I've seen in an 801 Photo. This looks like it would better prevent the wind getting in the front door line, although in the incident I read about the pilot thought the door handle was in the closed position but stated that it might have not been in the full closed position. This is a problem with the top hinged door that I never considered until this post. I can also look over my old plans to consider the original hinge location. ....Geoff.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222947#222947 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 Wing Tank Question From: "ricklach" I have a question for all you 701 Historian and techies. Why did Chris go with a short 10-gal tank and install a Wing Tank Channel (7V11-1K). Rather than a 12-gal Tank that would go all the way to the rear Spar? I was just looking at Stefan and Ken Carpenter 750 wing assembly photos and the short tank design is carried through there also. Everything is done for a reason and I was just curious if any one really knows or asked the factory. Rick -------- Rick N35 26.700, W118 16.743 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222967#222967 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:49 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment Geoff, I believe it was John Gilpen (of the vortex generator fame) that originally posted this incident. I am not sure if the incident was with standard doors or with the new bubble doors. I do know however, the new bubble doors (picked up in Sept)that I have for my 701 have the latches at the lower front corner just as you suggested. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder Closing up the wings for the final time. NW Ontario, Canada Do Not Archive --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Geoff Heap wrote: > From: Geoff Heap > Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 8:16 AM > Heap" > > Working on my doors brought to mind the recent incident of > a door flipping up in the slipstream. From what I remember > the handle smashed a hole in the underside of the wing then > the whole door ripped off and caused damage to the H. Stab > and rudder. This sounds pretty catastrophic to me. The plane > landed OK. I cant find the post now. I believe it > was in Nov/Dec 2008. Any one else remember this? > Any way, considering that most pilots I know have had a > Cessna door pop open in flight (Personally Ive had > this happen twice during climb outs) it seems that it WILL > happen sooner or later to me. (Dont know about you). > I might consider moving the handle to the fwd lower corner > as I've seen in an 801 Photo. This looks like it would > better prevent the wind getting in the front door line, > although in the incident I read about the pilot thought the > door handle was in the closed position but stated that it > might have not been in the full closed position. This is a > problem with the top hinged door that I never considered > until this post. I can also look over my old plans to > consider the original hinge location. ....Geoff.... ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:28 AM PST US From: "Curt Thompson" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 Wing Tank Question Could it be the additional rearward shift in CG as you rotate and the fuel sloshes to the rear of the tank? I was going to make my tanks deeper but decided against this due to the possible issue (it was just a theory on my part with not analysis or running this by anyone else). Curt -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricklach Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:40 AM Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 Wing Tank Question I have a question for all you 701 Historian and techies. Why did Chris go with a short 10-gal tank and install a Wing Tank Channel (7V11-1K). Rather than a 12-gal Tank that would go all the way to the rear Spar? I was just looking at Stefan and Ken Carpenter 750 wing assembly photos and the short tank design is carried through there also. Everything is done for a reason and I was just curious if any one really knows or asked the factory. Rick -------- Rick N35 26.700, W118 16.743 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222967#222967 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:59 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment I also had the bubble doors with the latches forward at the bottom of the door. A very simple way of assuring they stay latched is to install one of the small diameter bungee cords that are available to the structure below the door handle. Close the hooks on the bungee so they cannot come loose. Close the door and then slip the loop of the small bungee up over the door handle. If the bungee is hooked directly below the center of the inside door handle it will easily stay in place during flight assuring it will not be somehow bumped and opened. George http://www.mykitairplane.com > > Working on my doors brought to mind the recent incident of a door > flipping up in the slipstream. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:27 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment You can access all the details of that incident, including photos and an improved latch system that we installed on both our local 701's at http://www.stolspeed.com/701-door-warning This was the original door design, but in re-building we strengthened the gussets to make it much more rigid. The new latch system is easy to adopt, using the same position for the handle, but with the weight of the handle tending to hold it closed, and a longer tang to engage the frame so that it takes much more rotation to disengage. Also includes a sliding rod that engages the rear of the door, keeping it well sealed. It was simple to do and works real well. JohnG ----- Original Message ----- From: Geoff Heap To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:16 AM Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment Working on my doors brought to mind the recent incident of a door flipping up in the slipstream. From what I remember the handle smashed a hole in the underside of the wing then the whole door ripped off and caused damage to the H. Stab and rudder. This sounds pretty catastrophic to me. The plane landed OK. I can?Tt find the post now. I believe it was in Nov/Dec 2008. Any one else remember this? Any way, considering that most pilots I know have had a Cessna door pop open in flight (Personally I?Tve had this happen twice during climb outs) it seems that it WILL happen sooner or later to me. (Don?Tt know about you). I might consider moving the handle to the fwd lower corner as I've seen in an 801 Photo. This looks like it would better prevent the wind getting in the front door line, although in the incident I read about the pilot thought the door handle was in the closed position but stated that it might have not been in the full closed position. This is a problem with the top hinged door that I never considered until this post. I can also look over my old plans to consider the original hinge location. ....Geoff.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222947#222947 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:44 PM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment John, I was correct that the original post was from you :) Just for intrest sake, while the new door latch assembly from Zenith doesn't have the additional rod to the back, the front latch tang that you are using is similar is size to the newer Zenith ones. Additionally, if anyone is using the new fiberglass edged bubble doors, I don't think that this would be much of an issue, they are pretty solid and even seem to have some pre-load to them that should keep them tightly closed at the back edge. Definately with the older style lexan/aluminum doors, I could see this opening in flight sort of thing happening. Happy building Do Not Archive Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada --- On Mon, 1/5/09, JG wrote: > From: JG > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 2:14 PM > You can access all the details of that incident, including > photos and an improved latch system that we installed on > both our local 701's at > http://www.stolspeed.com/701-door-warning > > This was the original door design, but in re-building we > strengthened the gussets to make it much more rigid. The > new latch system is easy to adopt, using the same position > for the handle, but with the weight of the handle tending to > hold it closed, and a longer tang to engage the frame so > that it takes much more rotation to disengage. Also > includes a sliding rod that engages the rear of the door, > keeping it well sealed. It was simple to do and works real > well. > > JohnG ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:43 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment Yep, still here Doug. Just lurking right now, but some really interesting tuft testing coming up. JohnG Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: MacDonald Doug To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:32 AM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment John, I was correct that the original post was from you :) Just for intrest sake, while the new door latch assembly from Zenith doesn't have the additional rod to the back, the front latch tang that you are using is similar is size to the newer Zenith ones. Additionally, if anyone is using the new fiberglass edged bubble doors, I don't think that this would be much of an issue, they are pretty solid and even seem to have some pre-load to them that should keep them tightly closed at the back edge. Definately with the older style lexan/aluminum doors, I could see this opening in flight sort of thing happening. Happy building Do Not Archive Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada --- On Mon, 1/5/09, JG wrote: > From: JG > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 Door ripped off. Just a comment > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 2:14 PM > You can access all the details of that incident, including > photos and an improved latch system that we installed on > both our local 701's at > http://www.stolspeed.com/701-door-warning > > This was the original door design, but in re-building we > strengthened the gussets to make it much more rigid. The > new latch system is easy to adopt, using the same position > for the handle, but with the weight of the handle tending to > hold it closed, and a longer tang to engage the frame so > that it takes much more rotation to disengage. Also > includes a sliding rod that engages the rear of the door, > keeping it well sealed. It was simple to do and works real > well. > > JohnG ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Wing Tank Question From: "kmccune" That is a good question, I am actually planning on making mine a little larger. Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. 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