Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:48 AM - Re: Fuel Lines (carl)
2. 06:53 AM - Re: Fuel Lines (MacDonald Doug)
3. 08:05 AM - Fw: Fuel Lines (carl)
4. 08:31 AM - AN fittings (Bob Gibfried)
5. 02:08 PM - Does the cowl align to fuse or does it align with engine (Geoff Heap)
6. 02:49 PM - Re: Does the cowl align to fuse or does it align with engine (LarryMcFarland)
7. 06:58 PM - Re: AN fittings (Larry)
8. 07:52 PM - Re: AN fittings (John Marzulli)
Message 1
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Hi Vic.
Get the best quality FI auto fuel line from a high volume auto supply store
and change them after 5 years or before if they loose flexibility.. If you
want to save weight buy a roll of 3/8" soft alum from ACS and use to make
the long runs (In engine compartment use hose covered with Firesleave). I
like to connect the alum lines to metal fittings using a short piece of hose
to introduce better flexibility at the joints to prevent hardening/cracking
due to vibration and pullout/break in an accident. Do use a sealant on
brass/alum, you will find that the brass tend to interact and stick to alum
and sealant makes then easier to remove.
Talk to your inspector to make sure he will accept your design changes.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Menkal" <vmenkal@mac.com>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fuel Lines
>
> Hello folks. Looking for advice on fuel lines.
>
> My (limited) understanding from the plans is that a single line goes from
> the tank to the gascolator mounted behind the seats and that the lines
> are attached on either end with hose barbs and gear clamps.
>
> I am not sure how the wings are removed and attached with this system.
> Even if you only remove the wings a few times over the life of the plane,
> Im worried things could get ugly. From my experience, it is often
> necessary to cut fuel hoses to remove from fuel barbs. Even if you can
> can remove without cutting, the fit on reinstallation is not very good.
>
> Are my concerns unwarranted? Is my small brain just a bit frozen (yeah
> back down to -30C - yikes).
>
> I have been salivating over the nice aeroquip fittings and hoses at
> aircraft spruce but the cost is a bit much and the choices of fittings
> and hose are bewildering to say the least. Can anyone point me to a
> good primer on selection and construction of aircraft fuel lines if this
> is the way to go?. I have had no luck with web searches, Matronix
> lists, the aeroquip web page, AC 43.13, etc.
>
> The only really decent and reasonably priced source I have found for AN
> grade fittings and lines is JEGS (auto race supply firm) but am concerned
> that the AN fittings are not really AN grade.
>
> I have to upgrade all my fuel lines and fittings to 3/8" to meet Canadian
> Amateur Built regulations so have to replace the supplies provided with
> the kit regardless.
>
> Any suggestions on reasonably priced fuel lines?
>
> Do you need sealant on brass fuel fittings and aluminum - brass fuel
> fittings?
>
> Boy, do I need a good reference on fuel systems (or a lot of help from my
> listing buddies)!
>
> Thanx gang.
>
> Cpt Vic
>
> CH701 C-GCPT (res)
> tail done, installing fuel and electrical in wings
> Whitehorse, Yukon
>
>
>
Message 2
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Hi Vic, I am a fellow Canadian CH-701 builder. I recomend talking to your MD-RA
inspector and finding out what he is comfortable with. Personally, I have gone
with all aluminum and AN fittings. The price of the AN fittings does add
up but at least I know that my MD-RA inspector cannot complain about the fuel
system because it will essentially all be aircraft grade material. An added benifit
is that the AN fittinge can easily be disconnected and re-connected.
This is not to say that you won't be allowed to use the rubber hose. I believe
Mark Townsend uses rubber lines in the planes he builds and his inspector approves.
Just be aware that there is a lot of differences between what each inpector will
allow. Also, if you show your inspector an aircraft quality fuel system, he
is less likely to pick at something else. Here in Canada we still have the pre-cover
inspection and it is not easy to leave access to all components. If
your inspector sees extra care in things like your fuel system, he will feel more
comfortable not being able to see both sides of absolutely every rivet. I
have heard of inspectors comeing to see a plane and using a feeler gauge to see
if rivets were properly pulled.
Best of luck with your build, it is quite an adventure.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
--- On Fri, 1/23/09, Victor Menkal <vmenkal@mac.com> wrote:
> From: Victor Menkal <vmenkal@mac.com>
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fuel Lines
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 2:04 PM
> <vmenkal@mac.com>
>
> Hello folks. Looking for advice on fuel lines.
>
> My (limited) understanding from the plans is that a single
> line goes from the tank to the gascolator mounted behind the
> seats and that the lines are attached on either end with
> hose barbs and gear clamps.
>
> I am not sure how the wings are removed and attached with
> this system. Even if you only remove the wings a few
> times over the life of the plane, Im worried things could
> get ugly. From my experience, it is often necessary to
> cut fuel hoses to remove from fuel barbs. Even if you can
> can remove without cutting, the fit on reinstallation is not
> very good.
Message 3
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----- Original Message -----
From: "carl" <b.carl@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Fuel Lines
>
> Hi Vic.
> Get the best quality FI auto fuel line from a high volume auto supply
> store and change them after 5 years or before if they loose flexibility..
> If you want to save weight buy a roll of 3/8" soft alum from ACS and use
> to make the long runs (In engine compartment use hose covered with
> Firesleave). I like to connect the alum lines to metal fittings using a
> short piece of hose to introduce better flexibility at the joints to
> prevent hardening/cracking due to vibration and pullout/break in an
> accident. Do use a sealant on brass/alum, you will find that the brass
> tend to interact and stick to alum and sealant makes then easier to
> remove.
> Talk to your inspector to make sure he will accept your design changes.
> Carl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Menkal" <vmenkal@mac.com>
> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 3:04 PM
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fuel Lines
>
>
>>
>> Hello folks. Looking for advice on fuel lines.
>>
>> My (limited) understanding from the plans is that a single line goes
>> from the tank to the gascolator mounted behind the seats and that the
>> lines are attached on either end with hose barbs and gear clamps.
>>
>> I am not sure how the wings are removed and attached with this system.
>> Even if you only remove the wings a few times over the life of the
>> plane, Im worried things could get ugly. From my experience, it is
>> often necessary to cut fuel hoses to remove from fuel barbs. Even if
>> you can can remove without cutting, the fit on reinstallation is not
>> very good.
>>
>> Are my concerns unwarranted? Is my small brain just a bit frozen (yeah
>> back down to -30C - yikes).
>>
>> I have been salivating over the nice aeroquip fittings and hoses at
>> aircraft spruce but the cost is a bit much and the choices of fittings
>> and hose are bewildering to say the least. Can anyone point me to a
>> good primer on selection and construction of aircraft fuel lines if this
>> is the way to go?. I have had no luck with web searches, Matronix
>> lists, the aeroquip web page, AC 43.13, etc.
>>
>> The only really decent and reasonably priced source I have found for AN
>> grade fittings and lines is JEGS (auto race supply firm) but am
>> concerned that the AN fittings are not really AN grade.
>>
>> I have to upgrade all my fuel lines and fittings to 3/8" to meet
>> Canadian Amateur Built regulations so have to replace the supplies
>> provided with the kit regardless.
>>
>> Any suggestions on reasonably priced fuel lines?
>>
>> Do you need sealant on brass fuel fittings and aluminum - brass fuel
>> fittings?
>>
>> Boy, do I need a good reference on fuel systems (or a lot of help from
>> my listing buddies)!
>>
>> Thanx gang.
>>
>> Cpt Vic
>>
>> CH701 C-GCPT (res)
>> tail done, installing fuel and electrical in wings
>> Whitehorse, Yukon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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AN fittings are AN fittings are AN fittings. They don't make a different
type for auto and aircraft.
I used the AN fittings from Summit Racing along with the stainless braided
fuel line and whey have worked well.
Bob, Wichita
Message 5
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| Subject: | Does the cowl align to fuse or does it align with engine |
The engine is 3 deg off A/C center line. Does the cowl follow the engine CL to
centralize the prop hub within the cowl opening? I imagine it is but I've never
thought about it before and I don't recall the subject ever being mentioned
anywhere.
......Geoff....Frigid in New Jersey
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226583#226583
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Does the cowl align to fuse or does it align with |
engine
Hi Geoff,
The usual thing is to have the engine rotated 3-degrees about a point at
the front of the engine. That way the rear of the engine is offset
without being too close to the cowl and the spinner is nearest center of
the cowling's front. Just be sure to know which way the prop goes.
I recently tacked a mount together to find out the owner had a Ross
re-drive and the offset was the wrong way. A days labor lost and a
little tube
to start over but it's done correctly now. Clockwise from the pilot's
seat requires a right offset, etc.
10-degrees here today, but yesterday I flew from 25-degrees on the
ground to a 52-degree temp at 3500 feet in northwest Illinois.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Geoff Heap wrote:
>
> The engine is 3 deg off A/C center line. Does the cowl follow the engine CL to
centralize the prop hub within the cowl opening? I imagine it is but I've never
thought about it before and I don't recall the subject ever being mentioned
anywhere.
> ......Geoff....Frigid in New Jersey
>
>
>
Message 7
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Just for the record.
All AN fittings are not the same, there is a considerable difference.
Aircraft AN fittings are manufactured as per Air Force/Navy Aeronautical
Standards. Whereas, automotive AN fittings are manufactured as per SAE
industrial standards, approximately $60% as strong as the aircraft
version and considerable less expensive.
Larry, N1345L
Bob Gibfried wrote:
>
> AN fittings are AN fittings are AN fittings. They don't make a
> different type for auto and aircraft.
>
> I used the AN fittings from Summit Racing along with the stainless
> braided fuel line and whey have worked well.
>
> Bob, Wichita
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
Message 8
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Car parts are manufactured to standards?
Do not archive!
On 1/24/09, Larry <lrm@skyhawg.com> wrote:
>
> Just for the record.
>
> All AN fittings are not the same, there is a considerable difference.
> Aircraft AN fittings are manufactured as per Air Force/Navy Aeronautical
> Standards. Whereas, automotive AN fittings are manufactured as per SAE
> industrial standards, approximately $60% as strong as the aircraft
> version and considerable less expensive.
>
> Larry, N1345L
>
>
> Bob Gibfried wrote:
>>
>> AN fittings are AN fittings are AN fittings. They don't make a
>> different type for auto and aircraft.
>>
>> I used the AN fittings from Summit Racing along with the stainless
>> braided fuel line and whey have worked well.
>>
>> Bob, Wichita
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
http://marzulli.smugmug.com/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/
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