Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Gordon)
2. 10:20 AM - Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? (Gary Gower)
3. 10:56 AM - Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? (Randall J. Hebert)
4. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Dan Wilde)
5. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Jean-Paul Roy)
6. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Gordon)
7. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Terry Phillips)
8. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Gary Gower)
9. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Randall J. Hebert)
10. 04:48 PM - Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? (n801bh@netzero.com)
11. 06:15 PM - Speaking of Nose Gear (agibeaut)
12. 07:34 PM - Re: Speaking of Nose Gear (NYTerminat@aol.com)
13. 10:03 PM - Re: Speaking of Nose Gear (Les Goldner)
14. 10:46 PM - Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear? (Brady)
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline smell |
I'm still trying to track down the "smell" as well. I don't believe it
permeates from the fuel lines -- today I'm going to remove the inspection
plates on the wing so I can check the fuel sender -- the only other
possibility. I'm going to pull both units and apply a coat of proseal and
reinstall. I'll let you know if it makes any difference.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "kissell" <kissellr@ameritech.net>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:38 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell
> <kissellr@ameritech.net>
>
> I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first flight. I
> have inspected the fuel system several times for any leak and found
> nothing. I recently ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas
> through the side wall, at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if
> this solves my fume issue.
>
> Bob Kissell N701UB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236936#236936
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? |
Hello All,
-
I think that the tube axle has his reason to be,- There are parts in any
machinery and electric devices that act as a fuse,- I am sure that that a
xle is one of the several "fuses"-in the airplane.
-
Someone that is doing his landings-on the front wheel first (in a regular
basis), even if the pilot bends or not the axle or -the nose gear,- is
going to end wheels up-eventually.
-
We all need to practice all of our landings on the mains, and keep the fron
t wheel in the air as much as the elevator keeps it up.-
-
In fact, about a 100 hrs ago, we were having some little problems with the
fine touch of the elevator at landing,- our Instructor was able to keep t
he 701 on the mains only, when landing, -for more that 600 ft to prove us
it can be done.- So for this training-we-installed a little "office
seat" -wheel in the tail tie down ring and practiced gently to make- "w
heelies".--
-
A few hours later we could stop the plane as a tail dragger, on that little
wheel; -then we applied power and managed to take off without the front
wheel touching...- Was lots of fun and gave us a great feeling of the ele
vator, and better knowledge of our great airplane.-
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Learning to fly the 701 is lots of fun.
-
--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Larry <lrm@skyhawg.com> wrote:
From: Larry <lrm@skyhawg.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear?
It bothered me when I built my 701 that the nose wheel axle was made of thi
n
wall 4130 tubing with nuts welded in each end. I threw it away and built a
new
one out of solid solid stainless steel. A little more weight, but so what!
! It
will not bend. Larry, N1345L
Tony Sim wrote:
> To all,
>
> recently had an event with a 701. Touched down on mains and when
the nosewheel lowered in a light to moderate manner the aircraft started to
veer
to the left . Right foot had no effect and the rate of turn increased resul
ting
in the left wheel lifting and the right wing leading edge slat contacting t
he
ground
>
>
> I was concerned that I may have applied right foot to the left rudder
pedal on the other side which could be a danger with the peddals so close
together, but wondered if that was the case why this had not happened befor
e
>
>
> We dicovered shortly after buying the aircraft that the nosewheel axel wa
s
bent and I am now tending to think that the veering off to the left was due
to
failure following a prevous incident or number of incidents.
>
>
> Any thoughts or theories welcomed . Heck of a feeling when you put an
imput into the controls that you have done for many years and hours and hav
e no
response.
>
>
> Tony
>
>
> From: NYTerminat@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:56:36 -0400
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear?
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Les,
> I can tell you that it was a very hard landing. Just look at the axle on
the nose gear, it takes a lot to get that to bend. My guess is that it was
either porpoised in and got out of control or it did not hit the mains firs
t and
hit the nose gear first.
> Bob Spudis
> In a message dated 3/30/2009 3:55:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
lgold@quantum-associates.com writes:
> Recently a learned about a new (~30 flight hours) 701 that had its nose
gear
> collapse on landing, causing considerable damage and was able to obtain
two
> pictures (see attached). The gear tube buckled and bent back just above
the
> lower bearing, which bent the lower bearing and firewall. The wheel bent
> against the fus and deformed the lower structure behind the gear. The
> radiator was pushed up into the exhaust and holed, and the bottom cowling
> was damaged. The prop, and possibly the engine were also casualties of
this
> collapse. The wheel axle was bent up with the bolts holding the axle to
the
> fork still in place. The fork was bent and the tire pushed upward into th
e
> fork so that the tire tread was cut by a bolt on the inside of the fork.
The
> upper gear tube and upper bearing did not appear to be affected. I was
able to find out that the plane was not overweight and the pilot and
> passenger were not injured. The pilot said the plane was built to Zenith
> specs. She was making a, admittedly "hard", short field landing
on a paved
> strip at a high angle of attack when it happened. The main gear touched
> first and was not damaged.
> Like most of us, I have made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have
> been relieved to find little or no gear damage. Until I learned about thi
s
> failure I thought that 701 gear was very resilient. Now I am beginning to
> wonder. Have any of you seen or experienced a similar collapse or
speculate as to
> its cause? Les
>
>
>
> A Good Credit Score is
7001372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.a
spx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62">
See yours in just 2 easy steps!
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Weak 701 Nose Gear ? |
True Gary
Also if the axle fails, the wheel does not turn and increased force of
the wheel dragging along can put undue stress in the thin tube.
Don't you guys love being armchair quarterbacks.
DO NOT Archive
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Engineers
Ph 337-261-1976 Fx 337-261-1977
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Gower
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline smell |
I too have noticed the gasoline smell on several occasions. Here is my
hypothesis for what may be happening with the 701. I have the vented
caps and it may be when the tanks are full or close to full, fuel
can slosh up to the lid and a little escapes from the cap and runs
down into the wing where the smell can linger for days. I have sniffed
the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from it (well it does
smell like rubber).
Dan Wilde
N948DW
kissell wrote:
>
> I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first flight. I have inspected
the fuel system several times for any leak and found nothing. I recently
ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas through the side wall,
at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if this solves my fume issue.
>
> Bob Kissell N701UB
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline smell |
I had a Champ for several years and it always-smelled gaz. Never could fi
nd any leaks. Go figure !
Jean-Paul Roy
--- En date de-: Mar, 31.3.09, Dan Wilde <dwilde@clearwire.net> a =E9crit
-:
De: Dan Wilde <dwilde@clearwire.net>
Objet: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell
=C0: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
<dwilde@clearwire.net>
I too have noticed the gasoline smell on several occasions. Here is my
hypothesis for what may be happening with the 701. I have the vented
caps and it may be when the tanks are full or close to full, fuel
can slosh up to the lid and a little escapes from the cap and runs
down into the wing where the smell can linger for days. I have sniffed
the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from it (well it does
smell like rubber).
Dan Wilde
N948DW
kissell wrote:
<kissellr@ameritech.net>
>
> I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first
flight. I have inspected the fuel system several times for any leak and fou
nd
nothing. I recently ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas th
rough
the side wall, at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if this solves
my
fume issue.
>
> Bob Kissell N701UB
>
>
>
=0A=0A=0A D=E9couvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Qu=E9be
c Avatars.=0Ahttp://cf.avatars.yahoo.com/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline smell |
And so --- I pulled the inspection plates that I installed so I could access
the tank senders and was sure that I would find a leak. Not only is the area
dry with no sign of a leak, there is no fuel smell at all in the wings. The
cabin smelled of gasoline when I opened the door as it always does. Just to
be sure I've topped off both tanks and left the inspection covers off and
will check it in the morning.
I also "have sniffed the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from it
(well it does smell like rubber)."
Beats me-- I'm about to give up on it unless someone else has an idea.
I did install the new rubber landing gear blocks that ZAC now sells to
replace the rubber hose. Big difference and very tuff material.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell
>
> I'm still trying to track down the "smell" as well. I don't believe it
> permeates from the fuel lines -- today I'm going to remove the inspection
> plates on the wing so I can check the fuel sender -- the only other
> possibility. I'm going to pull both units and apply a coat of proseal and
> reinstall. I'll let you know if it makes any difference.
> Gordon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kissell" <kissellr@ameritech.net>
> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:38 PM
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell
>
>
>> <kissellr@ameritech.net>
>>
>> I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first flight. I
>> have inspected the fuel system several times for any leak and found
>> nothing. I recently ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas
>> through the side wall, at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if
>> this solves my fume issue.
>>
>> Bob Kissell N701UB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236936#236936
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline smell |
Gordon
One thought occurs to me: could the gasoline smell be coming from the
engine compartment? If the 701 has the slots in the firewall for the rudder
pedal steering rods like the 601XL, there is a ready passage way for all
kinds of engine odors, including gasoline. The smell could be coming from
other openings in the firewall as well. Just a thought.
Terry
At 04:33 PM 3/31/2009 -0400, you wrote:
>And so --- I pulled the inspection plates that I installed so I could
>access the tank senders and was sure that I would find a leak. Not only is
>the area dry with no sign of a leak, there is no fuel smell at all in the
>wings. The cabin smelled of gasoline when I opened the door as it always
>does. Just to be sure I've topped off both tanks and left the inspection
>covers off and will check it in the morning.
>I also "have sniffed the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from
>it (well it does smell like rubber)."
>Beats me-- I'm about to give up on it unless someone else has an idea.
>
>I did install the new rubber landing gear blocks that ZAC now sells to
>replace the rubber hose. Big difference and very tuff material.
>Gordon
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; waiting on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline smell |
Is part of flying and our love for airplanes...--We have to-admit tha
t -Airplanes have a very pretty smell of gasoline and live with it.
I prefer to get home from flying, Saturday evening with this wonderfull gas
oline aroma inpregnated, than the most exquisite french parfume :-)- :-)
- :-)
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying a beautifull 701 STOL Mistress... and still happy married :-)
Do not archive.
--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Jean-Paul Roy <royjp@yahoo.ca> wrote:
From: Jean-Paul Roy <royjp@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell
I had a Champ for several years and it always-smelled gaz. Never could fi
nd any leaks. Go figure !
Jean-Paul Roy
--- En date de-: Mar, 31.3.09, Dan Wilde <dwilde@clearwire.net> a =E9crit
-:
De: Dan Wilde <dwilde@clearwire.net>
Objet: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell
=C0: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
<dwilde@clearwire.net>
I too have noticed the gasoline smell on several occasions. Here is my
hypothesis for what may be happening with the 701. I have the vented
caps and it may be when the tanks are full or close to full, fuel
can slosh up to the lid and a little escapes from the cap and runs
down into the wing where the smell can linger for days. I have sniffed
the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from it (well it does
smell like rubber).
Dan Wilde
N948DW
kissell wrote:
<kissellr@ameritech.net>
>
> I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first
flight. I have inspected the fuel system several times for any leak and fou
nd
nothing. I recently ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas th
rough
the side wall, at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if this solves
my
fume issue.
>
> Bob Kissell N701UB
>
>
>
Offrez un compte Flickr Pro =E0 vos amis et =E0 votre famille. Allez-y!
=0A=0A=0A
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline smell |
Gary
I totally agree with Tommy Walker
You are a trip.
By the way, Tommy, I did get the package yesterday, Thanks again
Definitely DO NOT ARCHIVE
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Engineers
Ph 337-261-1976 Fx 337-261-1977
I prefer to get home from flying, Saturday evening with this wonderfull
gasoline aroma inpregnated, than the most exquisite french parfume :-)
:-) :-)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? |
Ya know, I really like the way Gary thinks. He is a true diehard experim
ental pilot and wants to learn all about the plane he flies. One day I h
ope to meet him in person..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear ?
Hello All, I think that the tube axle has his reason to be, There are
parts in any machinery and electric devices that act as a fuse, I am su
re that that axle is one of the several "fuses" in the airplane. Someon
e that is doing his landings on the front wheel first (in a regular basi
s), even if the pilot bends or not the axle or the nose gear, is going
to end wheels up eventually. We all need to practice all of our landing
s on the mains, and keep the front wheel in the air as much as the eleva
tor keeps it up. In fact, about a 100 hrs ago, we were having some lit
tle problems with the fine touch of the elevator at landing, our Instru
ctor was able to keep the 701 on the mains only, when landing, for more
that 600 ft to prove us it can be done. So for this training we instal
led a little "office seat" wheel in the tail tie down ring and practice
d gently to make "wheelies". A few hours later we could stop the pla
ne as a tail dragger, on that little wheel; then we applied power and m
anaged to take off without the front wheel touching... Was lots of fun
and gave us a great feeling of the elevator, and better knowledge of our
great airplane. SaludosGary GowerFlying from Chapala, Mexico.Learning
to fly the 701 is lots of fun.
--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Larry <lrm@skyhawg.com> wrote:
From: Larry <lrm@skyhawg.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear?
red me when I built my 701 that the nose wheel axle was made of thinwall
4130 tubing with nuts welded in each end. I threw it away and built a
newone out of solid solid stainless steel. A little more weight, but so
what!! Itwill not bend. Larry, N1345LTony Sim wrote:> To all,> >
recently had an event with a 701. Touched down on mains and whenthe
nosewheel lowered in a light to moderate manner the aircraft started to
veerto the left . Right foot had no effect and the rate of turn increase
d resultingin the left wheel lifting and the right wing leading edge sla
t contacting theground> > > I was concerned that I may have applied rig
ht foot to the left rudderpedal on the other side which could be a dange
r with the peddals so closetogether, but wondered if that was the case w
hy this had not happened before> > > We dicovered shortly after buying
the aircraft that the nosewheel axel wasbent and I am now tending to thi
nk that the veering off to the left was due tofailure following a prevou
s incident or number of incidents.> > > Any thoughts or theories welcom
ed . Heck of a feeling when you put animput into the controls that you h
ave done for many years and hours and have noresponse.> > > Tony> > >
From: NYTerminat@aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:56:36 -0400> Subject
: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear?> To: zenith701801-list@matr
onics.com> > > > Les,> I can tell you that it was a very hard landing. J
ust look at the axle onthe nose gear, it takes a lot to get that to bend
. My guess is that it waseither porpoised in and got out of control or i
t did not hit the mains first andhit the nose gear first.> Bob Spudis>
In a message dated 3/30/2009 3:55:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,lgold
@quantum-associates.com writes:> Recently a learned about a new (~30 fli
ght hours) 701 that had its nosegear> collapse on landing, causing consi
derable damage and was able to obtaintwo> pictures (see attached). The
gear tube buckled and bent back just abovethe> lower bearing, which bent
the lower bearing and firewall. The wheel bent> against the fus and def
ormed the lower structure behind the gear. The> radiator was pushed up i
nto the exhaust and holed, and the bottom cowling> was damaged. The prop
, and possibly the engine were also casualties ofthis> collapse. The wh
eel axle was bent up with the bolts holding the axle tothe> fork still i
n place. The fork was bent and the tire pushed upward into the> fork so
that the tire tread was cut by a bolt on the inside of the fork.The> upp
er gear tube and upper bearing did not appear to be affected. I wasable
to find out that the plane was not overweight and the pilot and> passeng
er were not injured. The pilot said the plane was built to Zenith> specs
. She was making a, admittedly "hard", short field landingon a paved> st
rip at a high angle of attack when it happened. The main gear touched> f
irst and was not damaged.> Like most of us, I have made some awful hard
landings in my 701 but have> been relieved to find little or no gear dam
age. Until I learned about this> failure I thought that 701 gear was ver
y resilient. Now I am beginning to> wonder. Have any of you seen or expe
rienced a similar collapse orspeculate as to> its cause? Les > > > > A
Good Credit Score is7001372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditrepo
rt.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3Dfebemailf
ooterNO62">See yours in just 2 easy steps!> > > > > ____________________
_____________________________________________> All your Twitter and othe
r social updates in one place > > > ------------------------------------
------------------------------------> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search fe
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Speaking of Nose Gear |
I am really struggling with the friction level of my nose strut on my 701. It just
seems too tight even after trimming a couple of times. Top bearing alone is
fine, and the friction levels rise after I tighten lower bearing bolts. Is there
some comparative advice anyone can give me?
Art Gibeaut
Erie, IL
CH 701
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237141#237141
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Nose Gear |
Art,
We have all been there, put a small amount of oil on it and go fly. It will
loosen up on it's own after some use. It is moved by your feet which have a
lot of strength and when in the air it will be easier to move than on the
ground. By the time you fly off your hours it will be fine.
Bob Spudis N701ZX / 174 hrs
In a message dated 3/31/2009 9:15:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aagibeaut@yahoo.com writes:
I am really struggling with the friction level of my nose strut on my 701.
It just seems too tight even after trimming a couple of times. Top bearing
alone is fine, and the friction levels rise after I tighten lower bearing bolts.
Is there some comparative advice anyone can give me?
Art Gibeaut
Erie, IL
CH 701
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Speaking of Nose Gear |
Art's comment got me thinking (a rear event). I was told that the plane with
the nose gear that collapsed used the 1080 heavy duty bungee on it (this is
heavier than the normal "1080"). Does Zenith ship the kit with the normal
strength or the heady duty bungee? Could a heavy duty bungee have
contributed to the gear failure?
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of agibeaut
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:12 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Speaking of Nose Gear
I am really struggling with the friction level of my nose strut on my 701.
It just seems too tight even after trimming a couple of times. Top bearing
alone is fine, and the friction levels rise after I tighten lower bearing
bolts. Is there some comparative advice anyone can give me?
Art Gibeaut
Erie, IL
CH 701
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237141#237141
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| Subject: | Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear? |
Gentlemen,
what about this scenario?
If the mains hit first; the front can still hit hard enough to bend the axle.
Once the axle is bent, with the weight on the wheel the wheel is jammed against
the fork, (Nuts dig into the tire) and the tire can't turn.
Then the strut folds.
Maybe even the axle was bent over the course of several "hard landings"
and finally bent far enough to Jam the wheel?
That's my guess.
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237160#237160
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