---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/31/09: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Gordon) 2. 10:20 AM - Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? (Gary Gower) 3. 10:56 AM - Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? (Randall J. Hebert) 4. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Dan Wilde) 5. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Jean-Paul Roy) 6. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Gordon) 7. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Terry Phillips) 8. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Gary Gower) 9. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline smell (Randall J. Hebert) 10. 04:48 PM - Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? (n801bh@netzero.com) 11. 06:15 PM - Speaking of Nose Gear (agibeaut) 12. 07:34 PM - Re: Speaking of Nose Gear (NYTerminat@aol.com) 13. 10:03 PM - Re: Speaking of Nose Gear (Les Goldner) 14. 10:46 PM - Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear? (Brady) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:57 AM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell I'm still trying to track down the "smell" as well. I don't believe it permeates from the fuel lines -- today I'm going to remove the inspection plates on the wing so I can check the fuel sender -- the only other possibility. I'm going to pull both units and apply a coat of proseal and reinstall. I'll let you know if it makes any difference. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "kissell" Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:38 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell > > > I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first flight. I > have inspected the fuel system several times for any leak and found > nothing. I recently ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas > through the side wall, at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if > this solves my fume issue. > > Bob Kissell N701UB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236936#236936 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:21 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? Hello All, - I think that the tube axle has his reason to be,- There are parts in any machinery and electric devices that act as a fuse,- I am sure that that a xle is one of the several "fuses"-in the airplane. - Someone that is doing his landings-on the front wheel first (in a regular basis), even if the pilot bends or not the axle or -the nose gear,- is going to end wheels up-eventually. - We all need to practice all of our landings on the mains, and keep the fron t wheel in the air as much as the elevator keeps it up.- - In fact, about a 100 hrs ago, we were having some little problems with the fine touch of the elevator at landing,- our Instructor was able to keep t he 701 on the mains only, when landing, -for more that 600 ft to prove us it can be done.- So for this training-we-installed a little "office seat" -wheel in the tail tie down ring and practiced gently to make- "w heelies".-- - A few hours later we could stop the plane as a tail dragger, on that little wheel; -then we applied power and managed to take off without the front wheel touching...- Was lots of fun and gave us a great feeling of the ele vator, and better knowledge of our great airplane.- - Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. Learning to fly the 701 is lots of fun. - --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Larry wrote: From: Larry Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear? It bothered me when I built my 701 that the nose wheel axle was made of thi n wall 4130 tubing with nuts welded in each end. I threw it away and built a new one out of solid solid stainless steel. A little more weight, but so what! ! It will not bend. Larry, N1345L Tony Sim wrote: > To all, > > recently had an event with a 701. Touched down on mains and when the nosewheel lowered in a light to moderate manner the aircraft started to veer to the left . Right foot had no effect and the rate of turn increased resul ting in the left wheel lifting and the right wing leading edge slat contacting t he ground > > > I was concerned that I may have applied right foot to the left rudder pedal on the other side which could be a danger with the peddals so close together, but wondered if that was the case why this had not happened befor e > > > We dicovered shortly after buying the aircraft that the nosewheel axel wa s bent and I am now tending to think that the veering off to the left was due to failure following a prevous incident or number of incidents. > > > Any thoughts or theories welcomed . Heck of a feeling when you put an imput into the controls that you have done for many years and hours and hav e no response. > > > Tony > > > From: NYTerminat@aol.com > Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:56:36 -0400 > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear? > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > > > > Les, > I can tell you that it was a very hard landing. Just look at the axle on the nose gear, it takes a lot to get that to bend. My guess is that it was either porpoised in and got out of control or it did not hit the mains firs t and hit the nose gear first. > Bob Spudis > In a message dated 3/30/2009 3:55:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lgold@quantum-associates.com writes: > Recently a learned about a new (~30 flight hours) 701 that had its nose gear > collapse on landing, causing considerable damage and was able to obtain two > pictures (see attached). The gear tube buckled and bent back just above the > lower bearing, which bent the lower bearing and firewall. The wheel bent > against the fus and deformed the lower structure behind the gear. The > radiator was pushed up into the exhaust and holed, and the bottom cowling > was damaged. The prop, and possibly the engine were also casualties of this > collapse. The wheel axle was bent up with the bolts holding the axle to the > fork still in place. The fork was bent and the tire pushed upward into th e > fork so that the tire tread was cut by a bolt on the inside of the fork. The > upper gear tube and upper bearing did not appear to be affected. I was able to find out that the plane was not overweight and the pilot and > passenger were not injured. The pilot said the plane was built to Zenith > specs. She was making a, admittedly "hard", short field landing on a paved > strip at a high angle of attack when it happened. The main gear touched > first and was not damaged. > Like most of us, I have made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have > been relieved to find little or no gear damage. Until I learned about thi s > failure I thought that 701 gear was very resilient. Now I am beginning to > wonder. Have any of you seen or experienced a similar collapse or speculate as to > its cause? Les > > > > A Good Credit Score is 7001372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.a spx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > All your Twitter and other social updates in one place > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:42 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? From: "Randall J. Hebert" True Gary Also if the axle fails, the wheel does not turn and increased force of the wheel dragging along can put undue stress in the thin tube. Don't you guys love being armchair quarterbacks. DO NOT Archive Randall J Hebert Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc Consulting Engineers Ph 337-261-1976 Fx 337-261-1977 From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:37 PM PST US From: Dan Wilde Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell I too have noticed the gasoline smell on several occasions. Here is my hypothesis for what may be happening with the 701. I have the vented caps and it may be when the tanks are full or close to full, fuel can slosh up to the lid and a little escapes from the cap and runs down into the wing where the smell can linger for days. I have sniffed the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from it (well it does smell like rubber). Dan Wilde N948DW kissell wrote: > > I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first flight. I have inspected the fuel system several times for any leak and found nothing. I recently ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas through the side wall, at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if this solves my fume issue. > > Bob Kissell N701UB > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:31 PM PST US From: Jean-Paul Roy Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell I had a Champ for several years and it always-smelled gaz. Never could fi nd any leaks. Go figure ! Jean-Paul Roy --- En date de-: Mar, 31.3.09, Dan Wilde a =E9crit -: De: Dan Wilde Objet: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell =C0: zenith701801-list@matronics.com I too have noticed the gasoline smell on several occasions. Here is my hypothesis for what may be happening with the 701. I have the vented caps and it may be when the tanks are full or close to full, fuel can slosh up to the lid and a little escapes from the cap and runs down into the wing where the smell can linger for days. I have sniffed the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from it (well it does smell like rubber). Dan Wilde N948DW kissell wrote: > > I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first flight. I have inspected the fuel system several times for any leak and fou nd nothing. I recently ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas th rough the side wall, at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if this solves my fume issue. > > Bob Kissell N701UB > > > =0A=0A=0A D=E9couvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Qu=E9be c Avatars.=0Ahttp://cf.avatars.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:54 PM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell And so --- I pulled the inspection plates that I installed so I could access the tank senders and was sure that I would find a leak. Not only is the area dry with no sign of a leak, there is no fuel smell at all in the wings. The cabin smelled of gasoline when I opened the door as it always does. Just to be sure I've topped off both tanks and left the inspection covers off and will check it in the morning. I also "have sniffed the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from it (well it does smell like rubber)." Beats me-- I'm about to give up on it unless someone else has an idea. I did install the new rubber landing gear blocks that ZAC now sells to replace the rubber hose. Big difference and very tuff material. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:35 AM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell > > I'm still trying to track down the "smell" as well. I don't believe it > permeates from the fuel lines -- today I'm going to remove the inspection > plates on the wing so I can check the fuel sender -- the only other > possibility. I'm going to pull both units and apply a coat of proseal and > reinstall. I'll let you know if it makes any difference. > Gordon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kissell" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:38 PM > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell > > >> >> >> I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first flight. I >> have inspected the fuel system several times for any leak and found >> nothing. I recently ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas >> through the side wall, at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if >> this solves my fume issue. >> >> Bob Kissell N701UB >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236936#236936 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:50 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell Gordon One thought occurs to me: could the gasoline smell be coming from the engine compartment? If the 701 has the slots in the firewall for the rudder pedal steering rods like the 601XL, there is a ready passage way for all kinds of engine odors, including gasoline. The smell could be coming from other openings in the firewall as well. Just a thought. Terry At 04:33 PM 3/31/2009 -0400, you wrote: >And so --- I pulled the inspection plates that I installed so I could >access the tank senders and was sure that I would find a leak. Not only is >the area dry with no sign of a leak, there is no fuel smell at all in the >wings. The cabin smelled of gasoline when I opened the door as it always >does. Just to be sure I've topped off both tanks and left the inspection >covers off and will check it in the morning. >I also "have sniffed the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from >it (well it does smell like rubber)." >Beats me-- I'm about to give up on it unless someone else has an idea. > >I did install the new rubber landing gear blocks that ZAC now sells to >replace the rubber hose. Big difference and very tuff material. >Gordon Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; waiting on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:10 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell Is part of flying and our love for airplanes...--We have to-admit tha t -Airplanes have a very pretty smell of gasoline and live with it. I prefer to get home from flying, Saturday evening with this wonderfull gas oline aroma inpregnated, than the most exquisite french parfume :-)- :-) - :-) - Saludos Gary Gower Flying a beautifull 701 STOL Mistress... and still happy married :-) Do not archive. --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Jean-Paul Roy wrote: From: Jean-Paul Roy Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell I had a Champ for several years and it always-smelled gaz. Never could fi nd any leaks. Go figure ! Jean-Paul Roy --- En date de-: Mar, 31.3.09, Dan Wilde a =E9crit -: De: Dan Wilde Objet: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell =C0: zenith701801-list@matronics.com I too have noticed the gasoline smell on several occasions. Here is my hypothesis for what may be happening with the 701. I have the vented caps and it may be when the tanks are full or close to full, fuel can slosh up to the lid and a little escapes from the cap and runs down into the wing where the smell can linger for days. I have sniffed the rubber fuel line and can not detect an odor from it (well it does smell like rubber). Dan Wilde N948DW kissell wrote: > > I have experienced the described "smell" as well since first flight. I have inspected the fuel system several times for any leak and fou nd nothing. I recently ordered new fuel line that is claimed to not out gas th rough the side wall, at $5 a foot from AS. I will let you all know if this solves my fume issue. > > Bob Kissell N701UB > > > Offrez un compte Flickr Pro =E0 vos amis et =E0 votre famille. Allez-y! =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:47 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: Gasoline smell From: "Randall J. Hebert" Gary I totally agree with Tommy Walker You are a trip. By the way, Tommy, I did get the package yesterday, Thanks again Definitely DO NOT ARCHIVE Randall J Hebert Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc Consulting Engineers Ph 337-261-1976 Fx 337-261-1977 I prefer to get home from flying, Saturday evening with this wonderfull gasoline aroma inpregnated, than the most exquisite french parfume :-) :-) :-) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:13 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? Ya know, I really like the way Gary thinks. He is a true diehard experim ental pilot and wants to learn all about the plane he flies. One day I h ope to meet him in person.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear ? Hello All, I think that the tube axle has his reason to be, There are parts in any machinery and electric devices that act as a fuse, I am su re that that axle is one of the several "fuses" in the airplane. Someon e that is doing his landings on the front wheel first (in a regular basi s), even if the pilot bends or not the axle or the nose gear, is going to end wheels up eventually. We all need to practice all of our landing s on the mains, and keep the front wheel in the air as much as the eleva tor keeps it up. In fact, about a 100 hrs ago, we were having some lit tle problems with the fine touch of the elevator at landing, our Instru ctor was able to keep the 701 on the mains only, when landing, for more that 600 ft to prove us it can be done. So for this training we instal led a little "office seat" wheel in the tail tie down ring and practice d gently to make "wheelies". A few hours later we could stop the pla ne as a tail dragger, on that little wheel; then we applied power and m anaged to take off without the front wheel touching... Was lots of fun and gave us a great feeling of the elevator, and better knowledge of our great airplane. SaludosGary GowerFlying from Chapala, Mexico.Learning to fly the 701 is lots of fun. --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Larry wrote: From: Larry Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear? red me when I built my 701 that the nose wheel axle was made of thinwall 4130 tubing with nuts welded in each end. I threw it away and built a newone out of solid solid stainless steel. A little more weight, but so what!! Itwill not bend. Larry, N1345LTony Sim wrote:> To all,> > recently had an event with a 701. Touched down on mains and whenthe nosewheel lowered in a light to moderate manner the aircraft started to veerto the left . Right foot had no effect and the rate of turn increase d resultingin the left wheel lifting and the right wing leading edge sla t contacting theground> > > I was concerned that I may have applied rig ht foot to the left rudderpedal on the other side which could be a dange r with the peddals so closetogether, but wondered if that was the case w hy this had not happened before> > > We dicovered shortly after buying the aircraft that the nosewheel axel wasbent and I am now tending to thi nk that the veering off to the left was due tofailure following a prevou s incident or number of incidents.> > > Any thoughts or theories welcom ed . Heck of a feeling when you put animput into the controls that you h ave done for many years and hours and have noresponse.> > > Tony> > > From: NYTerminat@aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:56:36 -0400> Subject : Re: Zenith701801-List: Weak 701 Nose Gear?> To: zenith701801-list@matr onics.com> > > > Les,> I can tell you that it was a very hard landing. J ust look at the axle onthe nose gear, it takes a lot to get that to bend . My guess is that it waseither porpoised in and got out of control or i t did not hit the mains first andhit the nose gear first.> Bob Spudis> In a message dated 3/30/2009 3:55:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,lgold @quantum-associates.com writes:> Recently a learned about a new (~30 fli ght hours) 701 that had its nosegear> collapse on landing, causing consi derable damage and was able to obtaintwo> pictures (see attached). The gear tube buckled and bent back just abovethe> lower bearing, which bent the lower bearing and firewall. The wheel bent> against the fus and def ormed the lower structure behind the gear. The> radiator was pushed up i nto the exhaust and holed, and the bottom cowling> was damaged. The prop , and possibly the engine were also casualties ofthis> collapse. The wh eel axle was bent up with the bolts holding the axle tothe> fork still i n place. The fork was bent and the tire pushed upward into the> fork so that the tire tread was cut by a bolt on the inside of the fork.The> upp er gear tube and upper bearing did not appear to be affected. I wasable to find out that the plane was not overweight and the pilot and> passeng er were not injured. The pilot said the plane was built to Zenith> specs . She was making a, admittedly "hard", short field landingon a paved> st rip at a high angle of attack when it happened. The main gear touched> f irst and was not damaged.> Like most of us, I have made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have> been relieved to find little or no gear dam age. Until I learned about this> failure I thought that 701 gear was ver y resilient. Now I am beginning to> wonder. Have any of you seen or expe rienced a similar collapse orspeculate as to> its cause? Les > > > > A Good Credit Score is7001372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditrepo rt.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3Dfebemailf ooterNO62">See yours in just 2 easy steps!> > > > > ____________________ _____________________________________________> All your Twitter and othe r social updates in one place > > > ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ============ ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search fe atures. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYR2bnLUQ2rkBWyxtH20 d0AZWmbdra3o0GlLyBYNLBwO4EozAokDDa/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Speaking of Nose Gear From: "agibeaut" I am really struggling with the friction level of my nose strut on my 701. It just seems too tight even after trimming a couple of times. Top bearing alone is fine, and the friction levels rise after I tighten lower bearing bolts. Is there some comparative advice anyone can give me? Art Gibeaut Erie, IL CH 701 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237141#237141 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:14 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Speaking of Nose Gear Art, We have all been there, put a small amount of oil on it and go fly. It will loosen up on it's own after some use. It is moved by your feet which have a lot of strength and when in the air it will be easier to move than on the ground. By the time you fly off your hours it will be fine. Bob Spudis N701ZX / 174 hrs In a message dated 3/31/2009 9:15:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aagibeaut@yahoo.com writes: I am really struggling with the friction level of my nose strut on my 701. It just seems too tight even after trimming a couple of times. Top bearing alone is fine, and the friction levels rise after I tighten lower bearing bolts. Is there some comparative advice anyone can give me? Art Gibeaut Erie, IL CH 701 **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:11 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Speaking of Nose Gear Art's comment got me thinking (a rear event). I was told that the plane with the nose gear that collapsed used the 1080 heavy duty bungee on it (this is heavier than the normal "1080"). Does Zenith ship the kit with the normal strength or the heady duty bungee? Could a heavy duty bungee have contributed to the gear failure? Les -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of agibeaut Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Speaking of Nose Gear I am really struggling with the friction level of my nose strut on my 701. It just seems too tight even after trimming a couple of times. Top bearing alone is fine, and the friction levels rise after I tighten lower bearing bolts. Is there some comparative advice anyone can give me? Art Gibeaut Erie, IL CH 701 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237141#237141 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:29 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear? From: "Brady" Gentlemen, what about this scenario? If the mains hit first; the front can still hit hard enough to bend the axle. Once the axle is bent, with the weight on the wheel the wheel is jammed against the fork, (Nuts dig into the tire) and the tire can't turn. Then the strut folds. Maybe even the axle was bent over the course of several "hard landings" and finally bent far enough to Jam the wheel? That's my guess. -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237160#237160 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith701801-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith701801-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith701801-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith701801-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.