Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:39 AM - Alaska CH701's (Ray D. Congdon)
2. 06:48 AM - 68" prop (george.mueller@aurora.org)
3. 07:19 AM - Re: [Probable Spam] Prince P-tip propeller (LarryMcFarland)
4. 07:24 AM - Re: 68" prop (Mark Sherman)
5. 07:26 AM - Re: 68" prop (Gordon)
6. 08:32 AM - Re: 68" prop (BokKat)
7. 08:43 AM - Re: 68" prop (nyterminat@aol.com)
8. 08:43 AM - Re: Prince P-tip propeller (Stanley Challgren)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi, I'm looking for information on Alaska CH701 owner/builders. I' finally am
getting settled in Wasilla and will have my 28x32 heated shop next month. Can't
wait to get started on my Airplane!
Ray D. Congdon - KL7UT
Lead Communications Technician
Red Dog Mine Alaska
68.0690 North 162.855506 West
100 Miles North of the Arctic Circle
http://www.reddogalaska.com/
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I was interested in the recent post that suggested a 72" prop is what is
needed for the Rotax. A 68" Woodcomp 3 blade was provided with my
Skyshops FWF kit and when I switched to a Warp Drive I got a 68" also
because I assumed that was the correct diameter or Skyshops wouldn't have
put it in the FWF kit. How many people use a 72" prop with a 701? I have
the 912 UL 80hp engine, does that make a difference? Is the 68"
appropriate for the 80 hp and the 72" appropriate for the 100HP? Am I
missing out on some performance with a 68" prop?
George in MIlwaukee
N701GM 62 Hours
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip propeller |
Hi Ben,
Differences between a 80 hp Rotax and a Jabaru 2200 is apples and
oranges. The Rotax is a redrive which is heavier and needs to use the
rpms best for torque.
The Jabaru is lighter and with the extra rpm, smaller prop it's a draw
but for being lighter. I believe the lighter Jabaru has the edge here
for best flight characteristics.
There are quite a few Prince P tip props for sale everywhere which
suggests that the long diatribe on prop efficiency may be more sizzle
than steak.
Good marketing does not make an efficient prop. Warp drive probably has
a better STOL answer for you.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Benjamin Q wrote:
>
> I am going to put a Jabiru 2200 on my 701. I have been looking into using a
Prince P-tip propeller. Supposedly the p-tip allows a blade of smaller diameter
to be as effective as a larger propeller because the tips "delays the tip vorticies
which cause drag and turbulence within the propeller arc." They also
claim that "a 72" diameter propeller without a P-TIP will give a volume of air
from the propeller of approximately 68" in diameter; a P-TIP propeller will
provide 72" of air volume."
> Additionally the propellers are said to include automatic pitch changing.
"The propeller has a fixed pitch that relies on the forward pull of the propeller
to automatically provide pitch change proportional to the amount of force
being applied to the propeller disk."
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
George
I have the Skyshops FWF and have the 100hp Rotax. I also have the 68"
Woodcomp 3 blade prop. I have it set at 14 degrees, that gives me 5450
static run up and 5500 on climb out. WOT at level flight I have 5800
rpm at 110 mph IAS, about 105 on the GPS.
Mark S.
----- Original Message -----
From: george.mueller@aurora.org
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:45 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 68" prop
I was interested in the recent post that suggested a 72" prop is what
is needed for the Rotax. A 68" Woodcomp 3 blade was provided with my
Skyshops FWF kit and when I switched to a Warp Drive I got a 68" also
because I assumed that was the correct diameter or Skyshops wouldn't
have put it in the FWF kit. How many people use a 72" prop with a 701?
I have the 912 UL 80hp engine, does that make a difference? Is the 68"
appropriate for the 80 hp and the 72" appropriate for the 100HP? Am I
missing out on some performance with a 68" prop?
George in MIlwaukee
N701GM 62 Hours
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I also was provided with the woodcomp 3 blade for my 912 uls 100hp. I
think you just need to dial in the appropriate pitch for the hp.
I'm very happy with the performance I'm getting and haven't touched it
since I set it up according to the instructions.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: george.mueller@aurora.org
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:45 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 68" prop
I was interested in the recent post that suggested a 72" prop is what
is needed for the Rotax. A 68" Woodcomp 3 blade was provided with my
Skyshops FWF kit and when I switched to a Warp Drive I got a 68" also
because I assumed that was the correct diameter or Skyshops wouldn't
have put it in the FWF kit. How many people use a 72" prop with a 701?
I have the 912 UL 80hp engine, does that make a difference? Is the 68"
appropriate for the 80 hp and the 72" appropriate for the 100HP? Am I
missing out on some performance with a 68" prop?
George in MIlwaukee
N701GM 62 Hours
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I have the Woodcomp on my 100 hp Rotax on the 701 and the Warp Drive on
the 80 hp Rotax on my Kitfox. All I can objectively say is that both
prop/engine combos work well, but there are enough difference between
the Kitfox and the 701 that to say anything more would be like comparing
apples with oranges.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 68" prop
I also was provided with the woodcomp 3 blade for my 912 uls 100hp. I
think you just need to dial in the appropriate pitch for the hp.
I'm very happy with the performance I'm getting and haven't touched it
since I set it up according to the instructions.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: george.mueller@aurora.org
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:45 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 68" prop
I was interested in the recent post that suggested a 72" prop is
what is needed for the Rotax. A 68" Woodcomp 3 blade was provided with
my Skyshops FWF kit and when I switched to a Warp Drive I got a 68" also
because I assumed that was the correct diameter or Skyshops wouldn't
have put it in the FWF kit. How many people use a 72" prop with a 701?
I have the 912 UL 80hp engine, does that make a difference? Is the 68"
appropriate for the 80 hp and the 72" appropriate for the 100HP? Am I
missing out on some performance with a 68" prop?
George in MIlwaukee
N701GM 62 Hours
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
68" Woodcomp from Skyshops for the 100 HP
Bob Spudis
-----Original Message-----
From: george.mueller@aurora.org
Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 9:45 am
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 68" prop
I was interested in the recent post that suggested a 72" prop is what is needed
for the Rotax. ?A 68" Woodcomp 3 blade was provided with my Skyshops FWF kit
and when I switched to a Warp Drive I got a 68" also because I assumed that was
the correct diameter or Skyshops wouldn't ?have put it in the FWF kit. ?How
many people use a 72" prop with a 701? ?I have the 912 UL 80hp engine, does that
make a difference? ?Is the 68" appropriate for the 80 hp and the 72" appropriate
for the 100HP? ?Am I missing out on some performance with a 68" prop?
George in MIlwaukee
N701GM 62 Hours
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip propeller |
On May 7, 2009, at 20:28 , Benjamin Q wrote:
> >
>
> I am going to put a Jabiru 2200 on my 701. I have been looking into
> using a Prince P-tip propeller. Supposedly the p-tip allows a blade
> of smaller diameter to be as effective as a larger propeller because
> the tips "delays the tip vorticies which cause drag and turbulence
> within the propeller arc." They also claim that "a 72" diameter
> propeller without a P-TIP will give a volume of air from the
> propeller of approximately 68" in diameter; a P-TIP propeller will
> provide 72" of air volume."
> Additionally the propellers are said to include automatic pitch
> changing. "The propeller has a fixed pitch that relies on the
> forward pull of the propeller to automatically provide pitch change
> proportional to the amount of force being applied to the propeller
> disk."
> I have looked for information on some of the forums and the few
> that have the propeller seem to think that they give modest
> increases in performance and efficiency.
> The reason I am so interested in these propellers is because it
> seems like they might be something of a silver bullet for some of
> the weaknesses you find in the Jabiru. The Jabiru has to use a
> smaller prop because they spin up to 3300 rpms. You are limited to
> a 68" prop instead of the 72" prop you would usually find on a
> Rotax. Conveniently, 68" to 72" is the difference Prince claims for
> their props. Additionally the automatic pitch changing could help
> with the slightly weaker climb and takeoff performance of the Jabiru
> as compared to the Rotax. It's not that I think that the Jabiru
> will out perform the Rotax with the P-tip Prop, but I think it will
> get closer then if I put on the wood or ground adjustable composite
> sensenich that is packaged with Jabiru's Firewall Forward kit.
> I called Jabiru USA and talked to someone there and they didn't
> recommend the Prince P-tip. Their reasons were cost and
> consistency. They said that they got a few P-tip propellers one
> time and when they were put on the same engine, there was a slight
> difference in the max rpms in each propeller. I think they said
> about a 20 rpm difference, but I might be remembering that wrong.
> Anyway as far as cost, I'm not sure thats and issue either. The
> cost of the p-tip is actually less then the composite ground
> adjustable sensenich. I'm not entirely sure the consistency
> argument is that strong either. The propellers are individually
> made in order to be application specific, so you can expect there to
> be at least a slight difference in each propeller.
> I also called Prince Aircraft Company and talked to Lonnie Prince,
> the owner of the company. He told me that if I got the propeller
> and it wasn't performing like I thought it should, he would take it
> back and tweak it at the factory for free. The research I have done
> on the company seems good. They have been around for a while and
> have a pretty diverse business. Lonnie was a super nice guy, but as
> an engineer, I really wish that he had some hard core dynamic flow
> analysis, or experimental data I could take a look at.
> Realistically, I don't think Zenith has done hardcore dynamic flow
> analysis either. More of a wish on my part, not a criticism.
> I have heard that a few 601s have Prince P-tips with good results,
> but that's a little different in application. Has anyone tried a P-
> tip on a slower STOL Airplane? Has anyone else looked into this?
> Even with the non-recommendation from Jabiru, I am still leaning
> toward the P-tip. Professionally, I appreciate the way the design
> takes advantage of innovative engineering to turn out a unique
> solution. If anyone wants to take a look at the website its http://www.princeaircraft.com/TheProp.aspx
> I would appreciate any comments you guys have. Even though I have
> only had my kit for a month, I am already done with my rudder,
> horizontal stabilizer, elevator, slats and flaperons. I have two
> weeks of leave coming up and I hope to be through the wings and into
> the fuselage. Its amazing how much you can get done in a 12 hour
> day. The propellers have a 13 week lead time, so if this is the
> direction I am going, I need to do it soon, otherwise I'll be have a
> finished airplane in my garage waiting for a propeller.
>
>
Benjamin:
I had a Prince 58" by 48 degree prop on my 601 HDS and I did get very
slightly better performance from it than from a Sensenich 64 X 49.
After the Sensenich was damaged due to a faulty spinner I got a GT
which underperformed the previous two by a small amount. The slightly
improved performance of the Prince was not worth the increased cost.
It was, however, the hands-down winner of the beauty contest. I still
have the Prince and plan to use it on my first taxi tests around my
pasture here at 8,000 ' msl.
As I remember I got about 2900 rpm on the takeoff roll with the Prince
at 5500', the elevation at Front Range, which is very close to DIA.
With the Sensenich the takeoff rpm was closer to 2750 which may
account for its slightly underperforming the Prince. The near sea
level performance of the Prince at Oshkosh was awesome.
I believe Jim Sagerser could give you more information on the Prince
performance on the 701. He was up yesterday assisting me and he has
had some experience with different props on his 701 with a 3300. I
believe Jim's email address is >lvuman@gmail.com<
Stan
701/3300
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|