Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:01 AM - Re: Prince P-tip propeller (Benjamin Q)
2. 03:46 PM - Re: 701 fuel system design (Les Goldner)
3. 04:04 PM - Re: 701 fuel system design (Craig Payne)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip propeller |
Thank you everyone for your comments and advice. I have been able to track down
a few people who have p-tips and the general consensus is that the p-tip will
at least meet, and probably moderately exceed the performance of the sensenich.
A couple of these people had both propellers, so they were able to better
do a cross evaluation. I also was told that on the Zenith with a Jabiru, the
p-tip lowered the cylinder head temperatures. As I stated before, the cost isn't
really that different, and less then the composite ground adjustable sensenich.
After considering all these factors, I went ahead and ordered a p-tip.
I explained that I was more interested in climb and takeoff then cruise, so the
pitch was reduced from 29" to 28". Once I finish (around September) I will
do extensive testing and make sure to post the numbers for everybody.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244178#244178
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 701 fuel system design |
Craig,
I'll take some pictures this weekend and send them out. I'm not certain what
a glare shield is, but each time I went through anything with the SS fuel
lines I used a rubber grommet.
FYI, I flew my 701 from San Francisco to S. Utah and Arizona last summer.
This summer I fly to Oshkosh, but would like to fly to N. Utah one of these
days...
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 fuel system design
<craig@craigandjean.com>
Thanks Les,
Running the lines forward looks appealing. Do you have any pictures? How do
you protect the lines where they pass through the glare shield - just the SS
braid?
BTW: if you ever come out to fly the canyons in southern Utah feel free to
drop by and visit me in Northern Utah at 36U in Heber, UT.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les
Goldner
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 fuel system design
<lgold@quantum-associates.com>
Craig,
My kit came with 4 tanks (40 Gal) and I did not like the idea of routing the
fuel lines and gascolator behind the seat where I would not be able to
detect leaks.
I am pleased with my installation. I ran the lines from the tanks to the
forward wing root on each side where I put selector valve with inside tank,
outside tank, and off positions. From their I ran the stainless mesh covered
fuel lines down and forward to the fire wall along the steel frame at the
sides of the windshield. I placed the gascolator forward of the firewall on
the bottom-most part of the firewall away from the exhaust system. I was
concerned about potential vapor lock, but a week of flying in 100+ degree
weather in Death Valley and Nevada & Arizona high desert dispelled this
concern.
If I has only a single tank in each wing I would use the same setup with an
on-off selector switch on each wing root. Simple and safe.
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 12:23 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 fuel system design
<craig@craigandjean.com>
I've seen a number of different fuel system designs on 701s. My big worries
are the placement of the fuel valve(s) and the gascolator. I want the
capability to select left, right or both to be able to control uneven flow.
Normally I would fly with "both" but switch to left or right if one tank was
draining faster. I'd also prefer the gascolator(s) to be where the Zenith
plans call for them (behind seats) as I'd like a gascolator to be at the
actual low point in the system. I know that some builders place their
gascolators on the firewall as a localized low point. But with the
gascolator forward I just don't see how you will ever get water or junk out
of the other low points in the system.
I'd like a "real" gascolator but placed where the plans call for the Zenith
"box". But it is tricky to mount a conventional gascolator there such that
you can drain it and open it for cleaning,
Places I have seen valves with pros and cons:
- Zenith design with off/on valve on floor by flap handle. Pros: single
gascolator behind seats, don't need access to valve during flight. Cons: no
"both" position.
- behind copilot's head towards the top off the outside wall. Pros: short
runs on lines from individual tanks, single "down" line to a single
gascolator. Cons: awkward to reach.
- centered on crossbar behind and above pilot and copilot just below roof.
Pros and cons are like above.
- on floor near flap handle. Pros better (but not great) access. I've got
chunky thighs and reaching (let alone seeing) the valve is hard. Not an
issue with an off/on valve but more important with a left-both-right valve.
Cons: two gascolators behind seats.
- on panel. Pros: good access to, and visibility of valve handle. Cons:
probably need actual valve on firewall with extension to panel.
One interesting idea I saw (N701RR?) is to not run the line(s) down, behind
the seats and then forward. Instead run them forward from the wing roots and
then down the diagonal steel tubes to the glare shield and firewall.
How have others thought this through?
-- Craig
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 701 fuel system design |
Thanks. The glare shield is the curved sheet on top and between the firewall
and instrument panel, aka top front skin. 7F14-4
If you pass through northern Utah on your way to or from Oshkosh and want to
stop at 36U let me know.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les
Goldner
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 fuel system design
<lgold@quantum-associates.com>
Craig,
I'll take some pictures this weekend and send them out. I'm not certain what
a glare shield is, but each time I went through anything with the SS fuel
lines I used a rubber grommet.
FYI, I flew my 701 from San Francisco to S. Utah and Arizona last summer.
This summer I fly to Oshkosh, but would like to fly to N. Utah one of these
days...
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 fuel system design
<craig@craigandjean.com>
Thanks Les,
Running the lines forward looks appealing. Do you have any pictures? How do
you protect the lines where they pass through the glare shield - just the SS
braid?
BTW: if you ever come out to fly the canyons in southern Utah feel free to
drop by and visit me in Northern Utah at 36U in Heber, UT.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les
Goldner
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 fuel system design
<lgold@quantum-associates.com>
Craig,
My kit came with 4 tanks (40 Gal) and I did not like the idea of routing the
fuel lines and gascolator behind the seat where I would not be able to
detect leaks.
I am pleased with my installation. I ran the lines from the tanks to the
forward wing root on each side where I put selector valve with inside tank,
outside tank, and off positions. From their I ran the stainless mesh covered
fuel lines down and forward to the fire wall along the steel frame at the
sides of the windshield. I placed the gascolator forward of the firewall on
the bottom-most part of the firewall away from the exhaust system. I was
concerned about potential vapor lock, but a week of flying in 100+ degree
weather in Death Valley and Nevada & Arizona high desert dispelled this
concern.
If I has only a single tank in each wing I would use the same setup with an
on-off selector switch on each wing root. Simple and safe.
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 12:23 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 fuel system design
<craig@craigandjean.com>
I've seen a number of different fuel system designs on 701s. My big worries
are the placement of the fuel valve(s) and the gascolator. I want the
capability to select left, right or both to be able to control uneven flow.
Normally I would fly with "both" but switch to left or right if one tank was
draining faster. I'd also prefer the gascolator(s) to be where the Zenith
plans call for them (behind seats) as I'd like a gascolator to be at the
actual low point in the system. I know that some builders place their
gascolators on the firewall as a localized low point. But with the
gascolator forward I just don't see how you will ever get water or junk out
of the other low points in the system.
I'd like a "real" gascolator but placed where the plans call for the Zenith
"box". But it is tricky to mount a conventional gascolator there such that
you can drain it and open it for cleaning,
Places I have seen valves with pros and cons:
- Zenith design with off/on valve on floor by flap handle. Pros: single
gascolator behind seats, don't need access to valve during flight. Cons: no
"both" position.
- behind copilot's head towards the top off the outside wall. Pros: short
runs on lines from individual tanks, single "down" line to a single
gascolator. Cons: awkward to reach.
- centered on crossbar behind and above pilot and copilot just below roof.
Pros and cons are like above.
- on floor near flap handle. Pros better (but not great) access. I've got
chunky thighs and reaching (let alone seeing) the valve is hard. Not an
issue with an off/on valve but more important with a left-both-right valve.
Cons: two gascolators behind seats.
- on panel. Pros: good access to, and visibility of valve handle. Cons:
probably need actual valve on firewall with extension to panel.
One interesting idea I saw (N701RR?) is to not run the line(s) down, behind
the seats and then forward. Instead run them forward from the wing roots and
then down the diagonal steel tubes to the glare shield and firewall.
How have others thought this through?
-- Craig
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|