Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:12 AM - Re: Re: VGs (BokKat)
2. 06:11 AM - Chat Room Reminder (George Race)
3. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: VGs (Jay Parker)
4. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: VGs (Jon Croke)
5. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: VGs (John Marzulli)
6. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: VGs (Mark Sherman)
7. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: VGs (JG)
8. 03:01 PM - Re: VGs (ronlee)
9. 03:09 PM - vortex generators (Alvin Rose)
10. 03:34 PM - Re: vortex generators (Ken Arnold)
11. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: VGs (BokKat)
12. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: VGs (Ken Arnold)
13. 04:08 PM - Re: vg's. (Gary Gower)
14. 05:18 PM - Re: vg's. (Mark Sherman)
15. 07:19 PM - Re: vortex generators (n801bh@netzero.com)
16. 08:47 PM - Re: VGs (MacDonald Doug)
Message 1
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I put JG's VG's on the tail and yes, they really do work! Fantastic, as
a matter of fact.
Next project is to pick a nice day and run all my V speeds with and
without the slats, and then with the wing VG's. It will be interesting
to see what I find out. Unfortunately my plane is not painted yet so I
might have to put them on, then take them off for painting, then back on
again. Oh well, I love to tinker anyway....
Hope to meet some of you guys in Oshkosh. I wonder if there is some
way of identifying the guys on Matronics who will undoubtedly be hanging
around the Zenith Display - everybody wear some wierd bit of clothing, a
particular hat or something simple so Joe builder could say "Hey,
there's a guy with an A5 rivet through his left ear and a silver cleco
through the right side of his nose so he must be one of those reprobates
on the Matronics 701/801 group - I'd better go meet him!" LOL
Anyone have any ideas for a simple ID method?
----- Original Message -----
From: JG
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
Ron,
You got the earliest Stolspeed VGs. Since then they've been
considerably strengthened. I'll send you replacements, no charge.
Anyone else with the early Stolspeed VGs that have broken, let me know
and I'll replace them with the newer ones, no charge.
JG
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:05 AM, ronlee <rlee468@comcast.net> wrote:
<rlee468@comcast.net>
I have had home made ones that I made that look just like the ones
Zenith is selling. I have these on the underside of the elevator on my
701 and they work fine. I have the plastic vgs on my wings and they too
work fine. I have broken two of the plastic in two years so they
certainly aren't as durable as aluminum. I pressed my original aluminum
vgs myself for a Ttitan I sold. I had enough left to do the elevator on
the 701, that is the reason I have them only on the elevator. It was
lots of work to make all those aluminum vgs, that is the reason I now
have a combination of each on my plane. Had the aluminum been available
when I bought the plastic I certainly would have done that instead of
plastic
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253709#253709
h as List Un/Subscription,
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target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Message 2
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Subject: | Chat Room Reminder |
Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT
www.mykitairplane.com <blocked::blocked::http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Click on the Chat Room link on the page.
Need Help Building Your Panel ?
Check out my web page for ideas.
George
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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I've seen the ones that Zenith sells that attach to the elevators and I've
seen the SpeedStol's VGs that attach the the forward wings as an alternativ
e to-Leading Edge Slats (LES).- I'm sure this is a stupid question to m
ost of you experienced flyers, but can you use both or-would it create to
o much drag or turbulance-or would it totally screw up the characteristic
s of the Zenith STOLs, or do they serve different purposes when they are at
tached to the wings as opposed to the elevators.- Opps, that was a whole
series of stupid questions in one sentence.- Sorry. -Basically, I just
want to know the difference between them.- The ones that Zenith sells, it
-appear to still require the LES and appear to help in slow speed landing
s, while the ones SpeedStol sells allows for the LES to be taken off with p
retty much the same slow landing characteristics as having them on, but-w
ith more stability-in flight, slightly higher cruise speeds, and less fue
l
consumption.- Anyone have any thoughts?=0A=0AJay=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0AFrom: BokKat <bobkat@btinet.net>=0ATo: zenith7018
01-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, July 20, 2009 8:11:49 AM=0ASubject: R
e: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs=0A=0A=0AI put JG's VG's on the tail and yes,
they really do work!- Fantastic, as a matter of fact.--=0A- Next pr
oject is to pick a nice day and run all my V speeds with and without the sl
ats, and then with the wing VG's.-- It will be interesting to see what
I find out.- Unfortunately my plane is not painted yet so I might have to
put them on, then take them off for painting, then back on again.-- Oh
well, I love to tinker anyway....=0AHope to meet some of you guys in Oshko
sh.-- I wonder if there is some way of identifying the guys on Matronic
s who will undoubtedly be hanging around the Zenith Display-- everybody w
ear some wierd bit of clothing, a particular hat or something simple so Joe
builder could say "Hey, there's a guy with an A5 rivet- through his left
ear and a silver cleco through the right side of his nose so he must be-
one of those reprobates on the-Matronics 701/801 group-- I'd better go
meet him!"- LOL=0AAnyone have any ideas for a simple ID method?- =0A---
-- Original Message ----- =0A>From: JG =0A>To: zenith701801-list@matronics.
com =0A>Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 9:33 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Zenith701801-Li
st: Re: VGs=0A>=0A>=0A>Ron,=0A>=0A>You got the earliest Stolspeed VGs.- S
ince then they've been considerably-strengthened.- I'll send you replac
ements, no charge.- Anyone else with the early-Stolspeed VGs that have
broken, let me know and I'll replace them with the newer ones, no charge.
=0A>=0A>JG=0A>=0A>=0A>On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:05 AM, ronlee <rlee468@com
rlee468@comcast.net>=0A>>=0A>>I have had home made ones that I made that lo
ok just like the ones Zenith is selling. I have these on the underside of t
he elevator on my 701 and they work fine. I have the plastic vgs on my wing
s and they too work fine. I have broken two of the plastic in two years so
they certainly aren't as durable as aluminum. I pressed my original aluminu
m vgs myself for a Ttitan I sold. I had enough left to do the elevator on t
he 701, that is the reason I have them only on the elevator. It was lots of
work to make all those aluminum vgs, that is the reason I now have a combi
nation of each on my plane. Had the aluminum been available when I bought t
he plastic I certainly would have done that instead of plastic=0A>>=0A>>---
-----=0A>>Ron Lee=0A>>Tucson, Arizona=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this top
ic online here:=0A>>=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2537
09#253709=0A>>h as List Un/Subscription,=0A>>www.matronics.com/Navigator?Ze
nith701801-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenit
h701801-List=0A>>ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
=0A>>Matt Dralle, List Admin.=0A>>======0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-Listhref="http://forums.ma
tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>href="http://www.matronics.co
===========
Message 4
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In the soon to be released Zenair Newsletter & DVD (in approx 2 weeks)
Roger at Zenith provides a nice, clear presentation on their VGs:
performance and installation.
You will enjoy watching this and a bunch of enlightening innterviews
from builders at the recent ZAC fly-in at the factory!
Jon
editor/ Zenair Newsletter
www.zenair.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Parker
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
I've seen the ones that Zenith sells that attach to the elevators and
I've seen the SpeedStol's VGs that attach the the forward wings as an
alternative to Leading Edge Slats (LES). I'm sure this is a stupid
question to most of you experienced flyers, but can you use both or
would it create too much drag or turbulance or would it totally screw up
the characteristics of the Zenith STOLs, or do they serve different
purposes when they are attached to the wings as opposed to the
Message 5
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Can anyone give their opinion on the difference between the STOLSpeed and
Zenith VGs as far as the tail feathers are concerned?
Thanks,
John Marzulli
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Jon Croke <Jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
> In the soon to be released Zenair Newsletter & DVD (in approx 2 weeks)
> Roger at Zenith provides a nice, clear presentation on their VGs:
> performance and installation.
>
> You will enjoy watching this and a bunch of enlightening innterviews from
> builders at the recent ZAC fly-in at the factory!
>
> Jon
> editor/ Zenair Newsletter
> www.zenair.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>
> *To:* zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2009 11:50 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
>
> I've seen the ones that Zenith sells that attach to the elevators and
> I've seen the SpeedStol's VGs that attach the the forward wings as an
> alternative to Leading Edge Slats (LES). I'm sure this is a stupid question
> to most of you experienced flyers, but can you use both or would it create
> too much drag or turbulance or would it totally screw up the characteristics
> of the Zenith STOLs, or do they serve different purposes when they are
> attached to the wings as opposed to the
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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It was with the encouragement of Roger and Sebastien at the Cloverdale
fly in that I bought the VG's. They didn't say at the time that the
VG's were available from Zenith. I bought mine from JG.
Mark S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Croke
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
In the soon to be released Zenair Newsletter & DVD (in approx 2 weeks)
Roger at Zenith provides a nice, clear presentation on their VGs:
performance and installation.
You will enjoy watching this and a bunch of enlightening innterviews
from builders at the recent ZAC fly-in at the factory!
Jon
editor/ Zenair Newsletter
www.zenair.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Parker
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
I've seen the ones that Zenith sells that attach to the elevators
and I've seen the SpeedStol's VGs that attach the the forward wings as
an alternative to Leading Edge Slats (LES). I'm sure this is a stupid
question to most of you experienced flyers, but can you use both or
would it create too much drag or turbulance or would it totally screw up
the characteristics of the Zenith STOLs, or do they serve different
purposes when they are attached to the wings as opposed to the
Message 7
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Gday Bobkat,
Just a tip for mounting the VGs temporarily. Just use a 3/8" strip of
adhesive and place the VGs across it side by side and then cut between them.
Much easier than cutting all around each, and still plenty of holding power
for testing. Have fun tinkering.
JG
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:11 PM, BokKat <bobkat@btinet.net> wrote:
> I put JG's VG's on the tail and yes, they really do work! Fantastic, as
> a matter of fact.
> Next project is to pick a nice day and run all my V speeds with and
> without the slats, and then with the wing VG's. It will be interesting to
> see what I find out. Unfortunately my plane is not painted yet so I might
> have to put them on, then take them off for painting, then back on again.
> Oh well, I love to tinker anyway....
> Hope to meet some of you guys in Oshkosh. I wonder if there is some way
> of identifying the guys on Matronics who will undoubtedly be hanging around
> the Zenith Display - everybody wear some wierd bit of clothing, a particular
> hat or something simple so Joe builder could say "Hey, there's a guy with an
> A5 rivet through his left ear and a silver cleco through the right side of
> his nose so he must be one of those reprobates on the Matronics 701/801
> group - I'd better go meet him!" LOL
> Anyone have any ideas for a simple ID method?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* JG <vgstol@bigpond.net.au>
> *To:* zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 19, 2009 9:33 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
>
> Ron,
>
> You got the earliest Stolspeed VGs. Since then they've been
> considerably strengthened. I'll send you replacements, no charge. Anyone
> else with the early Stolspeed VGs that have broken, let me know and I'll
> replace them with the newer ones, no charge.
>
> JG
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:05 AM, ronlee <rlee468@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have had home made ones that I made that look just like the ones Zenith
>> is selling. I have these on the underside of the elevator on my 701 and they
>> work fine. I have the plastic vgs on my wings and they too work fine. I have
>> broken two of the plastic in two years so they certainly aren't as durable
>> as aluminum. I pressed my original aluminum vgs myself for a Ttitan I sold.
>> I had enough left to do the elevator on the 701, that is the reason I have
>> them only on the elevator. It was lots of work to make all those aluminum
>> vgs, that is the reason I now have a combination of each on my plane. Had
>> the aluminum been available when I bought the plastic I certainly would have
>> done that instead of plastic
>>
>> --------
>> Ron Lee
>> Tucson, Arizona
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253709#253709
>> h as List Un/Subscription,
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ====
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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That is very nice of John G. at Stolspeed to offer to replace broken VGs.
I have them on my 701( no slats) and they perform excellent. I wouldn't go back
to slats on a bet. It's just a much easier plane to fly.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253979#253979
Message 9
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Subject: | vortex generators |
Does anyone have a graphics template for construction of
the vortex generators similar to Zenairs
units..I have the plastic ones on my elevator and they
work well on floats..I would like to make the aluminum
vg's to try on the elevators and even on the wings with
slats removed...want to get more air speed.
A.R
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
AR,
Bigger engine.
Regards,
Ken
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Alvin Rose
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: vortex generators
Does anyone have a graphics template for construction of
the vortex generators similar to Zenairs
units..I have the plastic ones on my elevator and they
work well on floats..I would like to make the aluminum
vg's to try on the elevators and even on the wings with
slats removed...want to get more air speed.
A.R
Message 11
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Thanks for the report Ron. I'm looking forward to trying mine with no slats
and VG's. Most of us fly from pretty long fields anyway, and even if you
have to give up a tiny bit STOL performance it's no big deal.
----- Original Message -----
From: "ronlee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 5:01 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
>
> That is very nice of John G. at Stolspeed to offer to replace broken VGs.
> I have them on my 701( no slats) and they perform excellent. I wouldn't go
> back to slats on a bet. It's just a much easier plane to fly.
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253979#253979
>
>
>
Message 12
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Heck, just stick'em on any ol' way. What's a little airflow difference
in the elevator? I installed mine exactly as specified.
Regards,
Ken
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: JG
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
Gday Bobkat,
Just a tip for mounting the VGs temporarily. Just use a 3/8" strip of
adhesive and place the VGs across it side by side and then cut between
them. Much easier than cutting all around each, and still plenty of
holding power for testing. Have fun tinkering.
JG
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:11 PM, BokKat <bobkat@btinet.net> wrote:
I put JG's VG's on the tail and yes, they really do work!
Fantastic, as a matter of fact.
Next project is to pick a nice day and run all my V speeds with
and without the slats, and then with the wing VG's. It will be
interesting to see what I find out. Unfortunately my plane is not
painted yet so I might have to put them on, then take them off for
painting, then back on again. Oh well, I love to tinker anyway....
Hope to meet some of you guys in Oshkosh. I wonder if there is
some way of identifying the guys on Matronics who will undoubtedly be
hanging around the Zenith Display - everybody wear some wierd bit of
clothing, a particular hat or something simple so Joe builder could say
"Hey, there's a guy with an A5 rivet through his left ear and a silver
cleco through the right side of his nose so he must be one of those
reprobates on the Matronics 701/801 group - I'd better go meet him!"
LOL
Anyone have any ideas for a simple ID method?
----- Original Message -----
From: JG
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
Ron,
You got the earliest Stolspeed VGs. Since then they've been
considerably strengthened. I'll send you replacements, no charge.
Anyone else with the early Stolspeed VGs that have broken, let me know
and I'll replace them with the newer ones, no charge.
JG
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:05 AM, ronlee <rlee468@comcast.net>
wrote:
<rlee468@comcast.net>
I have had home made ones that I made that look just like the
ones Zenith is selling. I have these on the underside of the elevator on
my 701 and they work fine. I have the plastic vgs on my wings and they
too work fine. I have broken two of the plastic in two years so they
certainly aren't as durable as aluminum. I pressed my original aluminum
vgs myself for a Ttitan I sold. I had enough left to do the elevator on
the 701, that is the reason I have them only on the elevator. It was
lots of work to make all those aluminum vgs, that is the reason I now
have a combination of each on my plane. Had the aluminum been available
when I bought the plastic I certainly would have done that instead of
plastic
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253709#253709
h as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Message 13
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Hello Mark,
-
I dont use a tire pressure gauge, looses most of the pressure in the test..
.
-
What I do is this:
-
I messure the distance from the upper side of the rim to the top of the tir
e (with a square ruler) .- Then I made a piece of wood 80% long of that d
istance.- This is my air gauge from the floor to the lower side if the ri
m.
In case the wheel sides show-little wrinkle (like the dragster rear wheel
s) just aply a little more air.- Has worked for me.
-
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- On Sun, 7/19/09, Mark Sherman <n752ms@softcom.net> wrote:
From: Mark Sherman <n752ms@softcom.net>
Subject: Zenith701801-List: vg's
I'm flying the 701 with a Rotax 912ULS with strut fairings, this morning it
was at about 1000 lbs gross weight.- Air was about 75 degrees at an alt
of 1000 ft that is a density alt of about 2260 ft.- On the ground density
alt was 1100.
-
I have just installed the plastic-vg's (yesterday) from StolSpeed- and
spent some time this morning doing some testing.- If I had not painted my
plane yet the aluminum ones would get some serious consideration.- The p
lastic ones take some time to put the adhesive on and then line them up on
the elevator, total install time was about four hours.- They don't confor
m to the radius of the elevator all that well, so we sill see how-long th
ey stay on.
-
-I tend to come in on short final with no power, flaps or no flaps.- 15
degree flaps take a little more practice with no power.- The vg's did mo
st certainly give me more elevator authority.-
-
On a power off stall the vg's seem to make the approach to the non stall mu
ch smoother.- My-CFI was amazed at the power off stall, no dropping of
the nose, full aft elevator with a slight buffeting.- Just-sinks at 900
fpm.- Full power stall is about the same except a much higher AOA and ab
out 200 fpm sink rate.- And a 5mph ground speed on the GPS.
-
Also did an engine off approach (prop stops on a Rotax 912) to a full stop
landing,- wanted to see if the glide ratio was any different than with th
e engine at idol and prop turning.- I did not do a four direction glide t
o compensate for any wind, this morning I could not detect any wind.- It
sank at a higher rate than with the prop turning.- This is contrary to wh
at I have been told.- The only thing I can think is that at idol the prop
on a Rotax 912 is turning enough that it helps with the glide.- There wa
s a considerably steeper nose down attitude with the prop stopped than with
it turning at the same air speed.
-
I also did my first off airport landing and take off this morning.- Used
a local hay field, it looked smooth but sure felt rough when I landed.- I
used 15 degree flaps on take off and that make things lighter on take off
and much smoother.- I probably have to much air in the tires.- How much
pressure are some of you using to smooth out-the rough fields?- I have
the tube type tires and don't want to spin the tires on the rim.
-
-
-
Eight more hours to fly off my 40.
-
Mark S.
-
-=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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Gary.
Thanks I think I'll give that a try. Now that you mention that, I
remember seeing a drawing some where with that specification of 80%.
Thanks
Mark S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: vg's.
Hello Mark,
I dont use a tire pressure gauge, looses most of the pressure in
the test...
What I do is this:
I messure the distance from the upper side of the rim to the top
of the tire (with a square ruler) . Then I made a piece of wood 80%
long of that distance. This is my air gauge from the floor to the lower
side if the rim.
In case the wheel sides show little wrinkle (like the dragster
rear wheels) just aply a little more air. Has worked for me.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- On Sun, 7/19/09, Mark Sherman <n752ms@softcom.net> wrote:
From: Mark Sherman <n752ms@softcom.net>
Subject: Zenith701801-List: vg's
To: "Zenith701801-list" <Zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 3:12 PM
I'm flying the 701 with a Rotax 912ULS with strut fairings,
this morning it was at about 1000 lbs gross weight. Air was about 75
degrees at an alt of 1000 ft that is a density alt of about 2260 ft. On
the ground density alt was 1100.
I have just installed the plastic vg's (yesterday) from
StolSpeed and spent some time this morning doing some testing. If I
had not painted my plane yet the aluminum ones would get some serious
consideration. The plastic ones take some time to put the adhesive on
and then line them up on the elevator, total install time was about four
hours. They don't conform to the radius of the elevator all that well,
so we sill see how long they stay on.
I tend to come in on short final with no power, flaps or no
flaps. 15 degree flaps take a little more practice with no power. The
vg's did most certainly give me more elevator authority.
On a power off stall the vg's seem to make the approach to the
non stall much smoother. My CFI was amazed at the power off stall, no
dropping of the nose, full aft elevator with a slight buffeting. Just
sinks at 900 fpm. Full power stall is about the same except a much
higher AOA and about 200 fpm sink rate. And a 5mph ground speed on the
GPS.
Also did an engine off approach (prop stops on a Rotax 912) to
a full stop landing, wanted to see if the glide ratio was any different
than with the engine at idol and prop turning. I did not do a four
direction glide to compensate for any wind, this morning I could not
detect any wind. It sank at a higher rate than with the prop turning.
This is contrary to what I have been told. The only thing I can think
is that at idol the prop on a Rotax 912 is turning enough that it helps
with the glide. There was a considerably steeper nose down attitude
with the prop stopped than with it turning at the same air speed.
I also did my first off airport landing and take off this
morning. Used a local hay field, it looked smooth but sure felt rough
when I landed. I used 15 degree flaps on take off and that make things
lighter on take off and much smoother. I probably have to much air in
the tires. How much pressure are some of you using to smooth out the
rough fields? I have the tube type tires and don't want to spin the
tires on the rim.
Eight more hours to fly off my 40.
Mark S.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
Trust me.. A bigger engine doesn't help airspeed much at all. <G>
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ken Arnold" <arno7452@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: vortex generators
AR, Bigger engine. Regards,Ken do not archive ----- Original Message --
--- From: Alvin Rose To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, J
uly 20, 2009 5:57 PMSubject: Zenith701801-List: vortex generators
Does anyone have a graphics template for construction of the vortex gene
rators similar to Zenairsunits..I have the plastic ones on my elevator a
nd theywork well on floats..I would like to make the aluminumvg's to try
on the elevators and even on the wings withslats removed...want to get
more air speed. A.Rhref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith7018
01-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-Listhref="htt
p://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.
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Message 16
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Jay, check out John Gilpin's (JG) website, www.stolspeed.com With all due respect to JG, keep in mind that he is selling something when you read his site.
Essentially, by removing the slats from the 701 you are reducing the size of the
wing (we are not talking VGs yet). The higher loaded wing will fly faster because
of less drag. You also loose a good amount of the STOL capcability of
the wing.
To fix this loss of low end STOL performance, you install vortex generators on
the wing. This returns most (but not all) of the STOL capability but leaves the
higher top speed alone. Now the question that everyone has to answer for themselves
is, is the increase in top speed worth the minor degridation of the
STOL capability. The consensus of those that have made the change is that the
very minor loss of STOL capability is very acceptible because the 701 has so
much STOL ability to begin with. What is another ten feet of take off roll when
you are still getting up faster than almost any other aircraft out there.
To answer your other question, there is no advantage to using VGs and slats. They
accomplish the same goal of keeping the airflow attached to the wing at higher
angles of attack.
While the above information may sound like I am firmly in the VG side of the debate,
I actually am planning on installing my slats. I just like to look at both
sides of an issue.
Hope this clears things up a bit for you.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
Final assembly
and getting my but kicked by a Citabria this past weekend
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
--- On Mon, 7/20/09, Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: VGs
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Received: Monday, July 20, 2009, 11:50 AM
> I've seen the ones that
> Zenith sells that attach to the elevators and I've seen
> the SpeedStol's VGs that attach the the forward wings as
> an alternative toLeading Edge Slats (LES).
> I'm sure this is a stupid question to most of you
> experienced flyers, but can you use both orwould it
> create too much drag or turbulanceor would it totally
> screw up the characteristics of the Zenith STOLs, or do they
> serve different purposes when they are attached to the wings
> as opposed to the elevators. Opps, that was a whole
> series of stupid questions in one sentence. Sorry.
> Basically, I just want to know the difference between
> them. The ones that Zenith sells, itappear to
> still require the LES and appear to help in slow speed
> landings, while the ones SpeedStol sells
> allows for the LES to be taken off with pretty much the
> same slow landing characteristics as having them on,
> butwith more stabilityin flight, slightly higher
> cruise speeds, and less fuel consumption. Anyone have
> any thoughts?
>
> Jay
>
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