Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:12 AM - Re: My definition of the "Bunny Hop" (Mike Hoffman)
2. 04:48 AM - Re: Re: My definition of the "Bunny Hop" (Craig Payne)
3. 05:21 AM - Re: 701 older style cowling (Jay Parker)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: 701 older style cowling (MacDonald Doug)
5. 07:14 AM - Re:701 older style cowling (ruruny@aol.com)
6. 07:47 AM - Re: 701 older style cowling (Carlos Sa)
7. 08:12 AM - 701 Project For Sale (Roger Ackerman)
8. 08:51 AM - Re: 701 older style cowling (Jay Parker)
9. 11:20 AM - Re: 701 older style cowling (Jay Parker)
10. 05:25 PM - Re: My definition of the "Bunny Hop" (ricklach)
11. 05:43 PM - Re: Wheel shake (ricklach)
12. 08:09 PM - Bunny hop/First flight (Joe Spencer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: My definition of the "Bunny Hop" |
A lot of very good info here. How about a little first flight advice?
First landing, flaps or no flaps.
First landing speed. (I know I want to be on the fast side).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257105#257105
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| Subject: | Re: My definition of the "Bunny Hop" |
Michael Heintz's advice: don't use the flaps at all for the first 50 hours.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Hoffman
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:10 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: My definition of the "Bunny Hop"
<mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
A lot of very good info here. How about a little first flight advice?
First landing, flaps or no flaps.
First landing speed. (I know I want to be on the fast side).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257105#257105
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 701 older style cowling |
Sorry Larry; I don't mean to walk over your initial question as I hope some
one can help you, but I have a similar question about cowlings. I think I'm
going to-need to create a whole new cowling from scratch as I would like
to use a radial engine which needs a special rounded, vented cowling.- I
saw some write up on EAA or Kitplanes showing one man's procedure for crea
ting a custom cowl, which pretty much built up layers of foam around his al
ready mounted engine, and I think he filled in -the holes and generally c
reated the shape using plaster.- He sculpted and sanded it down to create
the shape he wanted-and then used composites (carbon-fiber and resin)-
to create the composite cowling overlaying which also needed to be shaped a
nd sanded before completion.- Trouble is, I can't remember where I saw th
at article now (should have bookmarked it).- I've been thinking more and
more about this process as I would like to install a Rotec R3600 radial
engine on my plane which has it's propeller shaft squarely centered. The e
ngine-will need to address special-cooling vents so air can move around
and past the cylinders-and out the back, but keep a degree if streamlini
ng around the engine.- The conventional Lycoming,-Continental or even c
ar engines have-shafts that sit up higher over the mass of the engine and
already come with cowls designed for it's shape.- Does anyone remember r
unning across such an article or any "how-to" procedure for making composit
e cowls?- I think this same technique could be-adapted in the-making
-of cargo pods as well as long as the internal framework-can-structur
ally-handle the internal load you plan to carry in it or even-Larry's c
owling-could-be-modified and then patched up using composites if ther
e are no better options.=0A=0AThanks all,=0A=0AJay=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________
______________________=0AFrom: "Elwood140@aol.com" <Elwood140@aol.com>=0ATo
: zenith701801-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, August 10, 2009 8:33:23 P
M=0ASubject: Zenith701801-List: 701 older style cowling=0A=0AHi all,=0A=0AI
'm working on the cowling install and thought I was about done until I look
ed at the front view.- With the prop and spinner installed, the cowling l
ooks off-center.- I also find that the right side of the cowling is about
30 mm shorter than the left.- I assume that this takes into account the
offset of the mount.- Any comments from fellow listers?=0A=0ARegards,=0A
=0ALarry Wood=0A(N701LW almost done)=0A=0A=0A______________________________
-========================
=================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 701 older style cowling |
Jay, I seem to remember a link on the CH-701.com site that went to a builder's
page where he had built up a cowl from scratch. I believe he was one of the early
VW/701 builders.
Sorry I can't be a much more help.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Rigging wings
Do Not Archive
--- On Tue, 8/11/09, Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 older style cowling
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Received: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 7:15 AM
> Sorry Larry; I don't
> mean to walk over your initial question as I hope someone
> can help you, but I have a similar question about cowlings.
> I think I'm going toneed to create a whole new
> cowling from scratch as I would like to use a radial engine
> which needs a special rounded, vented cowling. I saw
> some write up on EAA or Kitplanes showing one man's
> procedure for creating a custom cowl, which pretty much
> built up layers of foam around his already mounted engine,
> and I think he filled in the holes and generally
> created the shape using plaster. He sculpted and
> sanded it down to create the shape he wantedand then
> used composites (carbon-fiber and resin)to create the
> composite cowling overlaying which also needed to be shaped
> and sanded before completion. Trouble
> is, I can't remember where I saw that article now
> (should have bookmarked it). I've been thinking
> more and more about this process as I would like to install
> a Rotec R3600 radial engine on my plane which has it's
> propeller shaft squarely centered. The enginewill need
> to address specialcooling vents so air can move around
> and past the cylindersand out the back, but keep a
> degree if streamlining around the engine. The
> conventional Lycoming,Continental or even car engines
> haveshafts that sit up higher over the mass of the
> engine and already come with cowls designed for it's
> shape. Does anyone remember running across such an
> article or any "how-to" procedure for making
> composite cowls? I think this same technique could
> beadapted in themakingof cargo pods as
> well as long as the internal
> frameworkcanstructurallyhandle the
> internal load you plan to carry in it or
> evenLarry's
> cowlingcouldbemodified and then patched up
> using composites if there are no better options.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Jay
__________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re:701 older style cowling |
Larry,
Mine is offset slightly right with the offset of the engine. If you try to install
it perfectly straight
the prop flange will be left and the right cowl pin comes very close to the prop.
My cowl was not shorter on the right side.
It took alot of trimming and adjusting and lots of tape to get it on perfect. When
its complete it does not appear to be
offset. Follow the series of pics from this link
http://www.701builder.com/Cowling1.htm
?a few reveal the offset, especially looking from the top, but looking at the cutouts
on the bottom of the cowl for the oil cooler and muffler. I need a good pic from
the top on a ladder to see the slight offset.
I'm finished with my project and completed the weight and balance only to find
my landing gear loose, with the wheels leaning forward.
I added thicker rubber to correct. Also found after completing cabling and setting
elevator and flaperon stops that?while turning extreme left and up that the
elevator pushrod would?bind to the right of the tunnel. I?made a new pushrod
using a rod end at the belcrank and it clears the tunnel.
Brian
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 701 older style cowling |
Jay, I knew of one such description, plus I did some searches.
Results below, hope this helps...
Michel Therrien, from the Montreal area:
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/chcowling.htm
This from the CH601.ORG site (Mike Sinclair), unfortunately the pictures are
all missing (perhaps Mark Townsend can have it fixed):
http://ch601.org/resources/cowling/cowl.htm
Mark Langford's KR2 web site:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/cowling.html
EAA chapter 1401 has a couple of article in their newsletters. Look for Feb
2007 and March 2007:
http://www.gatewayeaa.com/PDF%20version/
TheOuterMarker7Feb07..>
<http://www.gatewayeaa.com/PDF%20version/TheOuterMarker7Feb07b.pdf>
TheOuterMarker7Mar07..>
<http://www.gatewayeaa.com/PDF%20version/TheOuterMarker7Mar07.pdf>
I have noticed a trend among builders that document their work in web
sites: while many keep their web sites available almost forever, there are
some that are shutting down their web sites some time after they start
flying, for all sorts of reasons.
If there are sites you deem useful, you might want to extract the
information of interest before they disappear.
Good luck
Carlos
CH601-HD
2009/8/11 Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>
> Does anyone remember running across such an article or any "how-to"
> procedure for making composite cowls? I think this same technique could
> be adapted in the making of cargo pods as well as long as the internal
> framework can structurally handle the internal load you plan to carry in it
> or even Larry's cowling could be modified and then patched up using
> composites if there are no better options.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Jay
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | 701 Project For Sale |
Looking at selling my 701 project and will list here before trying
barnstormers. Located in central Minnesota. I was forced into an early
retirement and can't see my way financially finishing it.
Airframe, FFW and Instruments. All that would be left to purchase is
engine, upholstery and paint. Purchased in 05 ( SP airframe kit) and 07
(FWF and Instrument kit). Wings, slats,flaps,rudder,stab/elev, fuselage
assembled to the degree they can be prior to final fitting. Airframe
kit includes bubble door, elec trim, nav/strobe options. FWF/inst
package is as described at Zenith site - newer style cowling and mount.
Kit is 100% complete as purchased from Zenith. Complete photo
documentation of construction process. All upgrades listed by Zenith at
time of construction were applied if needed.
Would also include pneumatic riveter, cleco's and pliers, etc. if
needed.
looking for $15,000.00 for all. This would save someone more than
$5,000.00 from what I paid for it, plus it would save someone several
hundred hours of construction time.
If interested, e-mail is ackerrk@clearwire.net, 320-632-4609.
Roger Ackerman
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 701 older style cowling |
Yes!- I think you're right.- Thanks.- I'll go check my bookmarks to s
ee if I can find it now.=0A=0AJay=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________
_____=0AFrom: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com>=0ATo: zenith701801-list@
matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:49:38 AM=0ASubject: Re: Ze
nith701801-List: 701 older style cowling=0A=0A--> Zenith701801-List message
posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com>=0A=0A=0AJay, I seem to rem
ember a link on the CH-701.com site that went to a builder's page where he
had built up a cowl from scratch.- I believe he was one of the early VW/7
01 builders.=0A=0ASorry I can't be a much more help.=0A=0ADoug MacDonald=0A
CH-701 Scratch Builder=0ANW Ontario, Canada=0ARigging wings=0A=0ADo Not Arc
hive=0A=0A--- On Tue, 8/11/09, Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A
=0A> From: Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>=0A> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-L
ist: 701 older style cowling=0A> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com=0A> Re
ceived: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 7:15 AM=0A> Sorry Larry; I don't=0A> mean
to walk over your initial question as I hope someone=0A> can help you, but
I have a similar question about cowlings.=0A> I think I'm going to-need
to create a whole new=0A> cowling from scratch as I would like to use a rad
ial engine=0A> which needs a special rounded, vented cowling.- I saw=0A>
some write up on EAA or Kitplanes showing one man's=0A> procedure for creat
ing a custom cowl, which pretty much=0A> built up layers of foam around his
already mounted engine,=0A> and I think he filled in -the holes and gene
rally=0A> created the shape using plaster.- He sculpted and=0A> sanded it
down to create the shape he wanted-and then=0A> used composites (carbon-
fiber and resin)-to create the=0A> composite cowling overlaying which als
o needed to be shaped=0A> and sanded before completion.- Trouble=0A>- i
s, I can't remember where I saw that article now=0A> (should have bookmarke
d it).- I've been thinking=0A> more and more about this process as I woul
d like to install=0A> a Rotec R3600 radial engine on my plane which has it'
s=0A> propeller shaft squarely centered. The engine-will need=0A> to addr
ess special-cooling vents so air can move around=0A> and past the cylinde
rs-and out the back, but keep a=0A> degree if streamlining around the eng
ine.- The=0A> conventional Lycoming,-Continental or even car engines=0A
> have-shafts that sit up higher over the mass of the=0A> engine and alre
ady come with cowls designed for it's=0A> shape.- Does anyone remember ru
nning across such an=0A> article or any "how-to" procedure for making=0A> c
omposite cowls?- I think this same technique could=0A> be-adapted in th
e-making-of cargo pods as=0A> well as long as the internal=0A> framewor
k-can-structurally-handle the=0A> internal load you plan to carry in
it or=0A>- even-Larry's=0A> cowling-could-be-modified and then pa
tched up=0A> using composites if there are no better options.=0A> -=0A> T
hanks all,=0A> -=0A> Jay=0A=0A=0A=0A- - - _________________________
_________________________________________=0ALooking for the perfect gift? G
=============
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 701 older style cowling |
Thanks Carlos.- You found 3 sites that I hadn't seen before at all.- I
really appreciate your help.=0A=0AJay=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0AFrom: Carlos Sa <carlossa52@gmail.com>=0ATo: zenith701801-list@
matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:36:39 AM=0ASubject: Re: Z
enith701801-List: 701 older style cowling=0A=0AJay, I knew of one such desc
ription, plus I did some searches.=0A=0AResults below, hope this helps...
=0A=0AMichel Therrien, from the Montreal area:=0Ahttp://mthobby.pcperfect.c
om/ch601/chcowling.htm=0A=0AThis from the CH601.ORG site (Mike Sinclair), u
nfortunately the pictures are all missing (perhaps Mark Townsend can have i
t fixed):=0Ahttp://ch601.org/resources/cowling/cowl.htm=0A=0AMark Langford'
s KR2 web site:=0Ahttp://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/cowling.html=0A=0AEAA ch
apter 1401 has a couple of article in their newsletters. Look for Feb 2007
and March 2007:=0Ahttp://www.gatewayeaa.com/PDF%20version/=0ATheOuterMarker
7Feb07..>=0ATheOuterMarker7Mar07..>=0A=0AI have noticed a trend among build
ers that- document their work in web sites: while many keep their web sit
es available almost forever, there are some that are shutting down their we
b sites some time after they start flying, for all sorts of reasons.=0AIf t
here are sites you deem useful, you might want to extract the information o
f interest before they disappear.=0A=0A=0AGood luck=0A=0A=0ACarlos=0ACH601-
HD=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A2009/8/11 Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>=0A=0A-Does
anyone remember running across such an article or any "how-to" procedure f
or making composite cowls?- I think this same technique could be-adapte
d in the-making-of cargo pods as well as long as the internal framework
-can-structurally-handle the internal load you plan to carry in it or
even-Larry's cowling-could-be-modified and then patched up using c
omposites if there are no better options.=0A>=0A>Thanks all,=0A>=0A>Jay=0A>
======================
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: My definition of the "Bunny Hop" |
Hi Mike,
My recommendations for first flights are:
-no flaps
-What ever engine RPM gives you 45-55MPH.
-Power on until touch down.
-Dont try a Spot Landing let a good decent rate and your speed determine your touchdown
spot.
If youre a little fast thats all right as compared to too slow. Too slow gets you
into trouble. IF youre to fast for your liking just make a go-around, with
to much speed a go-around is EZ. Practice slow flight and get comfortable with
it. Get that seat of the pants feel for when that slow flight turns into to rapid
decent rate. Thats the edge you must learn.
Rick
--------
701Driver
N35 26.700, W118 16.743
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257213#257213
Message 11
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Hi Ron and tclongo,
Ron, Where do you get the tire weight your referring to? How about a name, part
number or something to help find them.
tclongo, I couldn't get your file open so I went to Tower Hobbies web site and
couldn't find much. Do you have a part number, manufacture or something to track
these items down.
Thanks
Rick
--------
701Driver
N35 26.700, W118 16.743
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257215#257215
Message 12
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| Subject: | Bunny hop/First flight |
>A lot of very good info here. How about a little first flight advice?
>First landing, flaps or no flaps.
>First landing speed. (I know I want to be on the fast side).
Right, lots of good advice. A few more points to consider...
The approach speed you decide on should obviously be based on what IAS
your bird stalls at...so before landing it stall it a few times before
to get the speed. Common sense, right? The IAS at stall can vary wildly
among different homemade planes of the same type, while the TAS is
close.
As some wise soul said before...forget the slow approach speeds for a
while. The FAA standard of 1.3 x VSO = 36mph on a plane that stalls at
28. Way too slow for a while. 1.7 x stall IAS seems about right on my
plane, for ordinary non STOL ops. If it stalls at 35 no flaps that works
out to 60 approach speed. You get the idea, I'm sure. Airwork before
landing, if it's running ok, of course. And right over the strip. If it
isn't running too good, fly fast but not so fast as to risk getting the
nosewheel. Common sense again.
Power required depends a lot on how you have configured your plane. If
it is the stock, to the plans version with slats and round struts, the
power requirement will be more than if you have the VG and streamlined
strut plane. The cleaned up plane doesn't sink nearly as much as the
plans version. Mine does just fine at 60 no flaps and 50 with one notch
of flaps and idle power, with plenty of speed there for flare and
landing w/o adding power, but it is cleaned up a lot. I used power to
touchdown at first, as others have advised, before doing my mods.
Try not to get too busy with the power on approach. The prop blows on
the tail thru the slot between the wing roots, and will vary the lift
that the tail/elevator produces, possibly causing pitch excursions,
which you won't find very helpful while already chewing up the seat
cushion
Flare height may be more critical than on other planes you have flown,
depending. It is so light and draggy that it will fall out from you if
handled a little clumsily in the flare. The old WAG of flare a wingspan
high is too high, unless adding power, which will upset the whole
landing. About a half wingspan high seems about right, again depending
on how your bird is configured and what speed/power you are using, and
your personal technique. The cleaned up ones are much more forgiving
here, in my experience. The gear is strong, but it will bend. I know.
First hand.
In the airlines, a stable approach is required, and that works on the
little birds too...if you can get it setup out there on final with the
flaps where you want them, on power, glidepath and speed, and stablized
til flaring at the proper height and gradually reducing the power til
touchdown...it will go well for you. Simple, huh? Right. Especially on a
first flight.
There really is a lot to know about the 701. As already mentioned by
some experienced 701 driver, there are a lot of ways to land it, and it
will challenge you to learn to do all that the little plane is capable
of. It can be quite a handful to fly really well at the slow speeds it
is capable of. That's the fun of it.
Have fun. Be careful
Joe
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