Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:47 AM - Re: Bunny hop/First flight (BokKat)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: My definition of the (Paul Tipton)
3. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Wheel shake (Tom Longo)
4. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: Wheel shake (Tom Longo)
5. 09:13 AM - Re: Bunny hop/First flight (Curt Thompson)
6. 12:56 PM - Re: Bunny hop/First flight (Ken Arnold)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Bunny hop/First flight |
Yes, I'd second what both Joe and Rick have said. If I were doing
first flights again I'd take off and climb up 2 - 3 K feet AGL. Try
some gentle turns and a bit of slow flight, but as JG says on his
website - just "nibble at the stall" Deep stalls and exploring the
envelope comes later.
Set up a nice LONG stabilized final at around 50 - 60 (my instructor 35
years ago kept drilling into my thick head "the product of a good
approach is a good landing!") and carry a bit of power almost to the
ground, even during the flare. Don't get too slow or flare too high and
the plane will land itself.
Good luck - you'll find the plane is really idiot proof and loads of fun
once you get the hang of landing it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Spencer
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:03 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Bunny hop/First flight
>A lot of very good info here. How about a little first flight advice?
>First landing, flaps or no flaps.
>First landing speed. (I know I want to be on the fast side).
Right, lots of good advice. A few more points to consider...
The approach speed you decide on should obviously be based on what IAS
your bird stalls at...so before landing it stall it a few times before
to get the speed. Common sense, right? The IAS at stall can vary wildly
among different homemade planes of the same type, while the TAS is
close.
As some wise soul said before...forget the slow approach speeds for a
while. The FAA standard of 1.3 x VSO = 36mph on a plane that stalls at
28. Way too slow for a while. 1.7 x stall IAS seems about right on my
plane, for ordinary non STOL ops. If it stalls at 35 no flaps that works
out to 60 approach speed. You get the idea, I'm sure. Airwork before
landing, if it's running ok, of course. And right over the strip. If it
isn't running too good, fly fast but not so fast as to risk getting the
nosewheel. Common sense again.
Power required depends a lot on how you have configured your plane. If
it is the stock, to the plans version with slats and round struts, the
power requirement will be more than if you have the VG and streamlined
strut plane. The cleaned up plane doesn't sink nearly as much as the
plans version. Mine does just fine at 60 no flaps and 50 with one notch
of flaps and idle power, with plenty of speed there for flare and
landing w/o adding power, but it is cleaned up a lot. I used power to
touchdown at first, as others have advised, before doing my mods.
Try not to get too busy with the power on approach. The prop blows on
the tail thru the slot between the wing roots, and will vary the lift
that the tail/elevator produces, possibly causing pitch excursions,
which you won't find very helpful while already chewing up the seat
cushion
Flare height may be more critical than on other planes you have flown,
depending. It is so light and draggy that it will fall out from you if
handled a little clumsily in the flare. The old WAG of flare a wingspan
high is too high, unless adding power, which will upset the whole
landing. About a half wingspan high seems about right, again depending
on how your bird is configured and what speed/power you are using, and
your personal technique. The cleaned up ones are much more forgiving
here, in my experience. The gear is strong, but it will bend. I know.
First hand.
In the airlines, a stable approach is required, and that works on the
little birds too...if you can get it setup out there on final with the
flaps where you want them, on power, glidepath and speed, and stablized
til flaring at the proper height and gradually reducing the power til
touchdown...it will go well for you. Simple, huh? Right. Especially on a
first flight.
There really is a lot to know about the 701. As already mentioned by
some experienced 701 driver, there are a lot of ways to land it, and it
will challenge you to learn to do all that the little plane is capable
of. It can be quite a handful to fly really well at the slow speeds it
is capable of. That's the fun of it.
Have fun. Be careful
Joe
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: My definition of the |
No flaps, 60 mph, 3,000 RPM for a 912ULS, and power to touch down.
Paul Tipton
321PT
250 hours
Message 3
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Hi Rick, here is a link to the lead weights I use, they work very good and
break apart at 1/4 oz increments. they will stick on behind the brake rotor
so you don't even have to put them on the outer side so they show and the
centrifugal force only holds them on tighter. Just make sure the rim is
clean before you stick them on, here is the link:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=lead+%3Cb%3Eweights%3
C%2Fb%3E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
ricklach
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:43 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Wheel shake
Hi Ron and tclongo,
Ron, Where do you get the tire weight your referring to? How about a name,
part number or something to help find them.
tclongo, I couldn't get your file open so I went to Tower Hobbies web site
and couldn't find much. Do you have a part number, manufacture or something
to track these items down.
Thanks
Rick
--------
701Driver
N35 26.700, W118 16.743
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257215#257215
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Message 4
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Try this link, Tom:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK204&P=ML
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
ricklach
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:43 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Wheel shake
Hi Ron and tclongo,
Ron, Where do you get the tire weight your referring to? How about a name,
part number or something to help find them.
tclongo, I couldn't get your file open so I went to Tower Hobbies web site
and couldn't find much. Do you have a part number, manufacture or something
to track these items down.
Thanks
Rick
--------
701Driver
N35 26.700, W118 16.743
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257215#257215
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
06:09:00
--
We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
The Professional version does not have this message
Message 5
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| Subject: | Bunny hop/First flight |
See US DOT Advisory Circular 90-89A, "AMATEUR-BUILT AIRCRAFT AND ULTRALIGHT
FLIGHT TESTING HANDBOOK".
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/ac90-89a.pdf
Section 5 has some good info on first flight procedures.
But this is all academic for me as I am still building (but thinking about
that first flight).
Curt
Plans building CH701
Redmond, WA, USA
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Bunny hop/First flight |
Joe,
This is the best description related to landing the CH701 that I have
read. I have had two CFIs that could not land it properly. As you
point out, come in at about 60mph and do not cut the power to idle.
Keep some power on until the wheels are in contact. Too slow creates
control problems if there is any cross wind.
Regards,
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Spencer
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Bunny hop/First flight
>A lot of very good info here. How about a little first flight advice?
>First landing, flaps or no flaps.
>First landing speed. (I know I want to be on the fast side).
Right, lots of good advice. A few more points to consider...
The approach speed you decide on should obviously be based on what IAS
your bird stalls at...so before landing it stall it a few times before
to get the speed. Common sense, right? The IAS at stall can vary wildly
among different homemade planes of the same type, while the TAS is
close.
As some wise soul said before...forget the slow approach speeds for a
while. The FAA standard of 1.3 x VSO = 36mph on a plane that stalls at
28. Way too slow for a while. 1.7 x stall IAS seems about right on my
plane, for ordinary non STOL ops. If it stalls at 35 no flaps that works
out to 60 approach speed. You get the idea, I'm sure. Airwork before
landing, if it's running ok, of course. And right over the strip. If it
isn't running too good, fly fast but not so fast as to risk getting the
nosewheel. Common sense again.
Power required depends a lot on how you have configured your plane. If
it is the stock, to the plans version with slats and round struts, the
power requirement will be more than if you have the VG and streamlined
strut plane. The cleaned up plane doesn't sink nearly as much as the
plans version. Mine does just fine at 60 no flaps and 50 with one notch
of flaps and idle power, with plenty of speed there for flare and
landing w/o adding power, but it is cleaned up a lot. I used power to
touchdown at first, as others have advised, before doing my mods.
Try not to get too busy with the power on approach. The prop blows on
the tail thru the slot between the wing roots, and will vary the lift
that the tail/elevator produces, possibly causing pitch excursions,
which you won't find very helpful while already chewing up the seat
cushion
Flare height may be more critical than on other planes you have flown,
depending. It is so light and draggy that it will fall out from you if
handled a little clumsily in the flare. The old WAG of flare a wingspan
high is too high, unless adding power, which will upset the whole
landing. About a half wingspan high seems about right, again depending
on how your bird is configured and what speed/power you are using, and
your personal technique. The cleaned up ones are much more forgiving
here, in my experience. The gear is strong, but it will bend. I know.
First hand.
In the airlines, a stable approach is required, and that works on the
little birds too...if you can get it setup out there on final with the
flaps where you want them, on power, glidepath and speed, and stablized
til flaring at the proper height and gradually reducing the power til
touchdown...it will go well for you. Simple, huh? Right. Especially on a
first flight.
There really is a lot to know about the 701. As already mentioned by
some experienced 701 driver, there are a lot of ways to land it, and it
will challenge you to learn to do all that the little plane is capable
of. It can be quite a handful to fly really well at the slow speeds it
is capable of. That's the fun of it.
Have fun. Be careful
Joe
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