Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:52 AM - Edge Forming Tool (Jake Crause)
2. 03:40 AM - Re: Edge Forming Tool (JG)
3. 03:50 AM - Re: Edge Forming Tool (mksoucy@yahoo.com)
4. 03:53 AM - Re: Re: A65 cont (mksoucy@yahoo.com)
5. 04:10 AM - Re: Edge Forming Tool (MacDonald Doug)
6. 04:10 AM - Re: A65 cont (kmccune)
7. 04:37 AM - Re: Joe Spencer Wrote (BokKat)
8. 06:13 AM - Things were running so smoothly...... (Zed Smith)
9. 06:48 AM - Re: Joe Spencer Wrote (Larry)
10. 08:52 AM - Slats/No slats + VG's V speed checks (Stanley Challgren)
11. 09:12 AM - Re: Things were running so smoothly...... (Roy Szarafinski)
12. 09:43 AM - Re: Slats/No slats + VG's V speed checks (John Bolding)
13. 11:04 AM - Re: Slats/No slats + VG's V speed checks (Joe Spencer)
14. 11:34 AM - Re: Edge Forming Tool (n85ae)
15. 01:43 PM - Re: Things were running so smoothly...... (dons701)
16. 09:55 PM - Re: VGs (d.shrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Edge Forming Tool |
Quick question for the group.- Do any kit builders-here (or plans build
ers for that matter) use an edge forming tool on a regular basis?- Those
who don't, have you seen any tendency for edges to pull up on lap joints wh
en riveting?=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming Tool |
Yep, setting the edges really makes for tidier lap joints. Every time I
haven't done it I wished I had....
Just a piece of 3/4" thick hardwood with a 3/16" deep hacksaw cut. Spray
the edge with WD40. With the edge overhanging the work table, draw the
'tool' along it a couple of times, twisting it such that it leaves a small
set on the edge. Easy.
Makes for a tight fit edge, and prevents those annoying rises between rivets
sometimes......
JG
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Jake Crause <jakecrause@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Quick question for the group. Do any kit builders here (or plans builders
> for that matter) use an edge forming tool on a regular basis? Those who
> don't, have you seen any tendency for edges to pull up on lap joints when
> riveting?
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming Tool |
Metal does not usually pull I think due to the stiffness of 6061. Lap joint
s seem look ok. I have even used quite a few solid rivets no problem. =0A
=0AMike=0A=0ASent from my iPod=0A=0AOn Aug 25, 2009, at 5:51 AM, Jake Craus
e <jakecrause@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0AQuick question for the group. Do any
kit builders here (or plans builders for that matter) use an edge forming t
ool on a regular basis? Those who don't, have you seen any tendency for ed
-========================
============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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Makes me wonder what a 582 would do on a j3.
Mike
Sent from my iPod
On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:13 PM, "kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
So:
950-30(gas)-185(slightly,large FAA Guy)- 185 (another slightly large FAA guy) =
550 empty with oil? And this from an engine that pulls around a J3, that's interesting,
I'm not criticizing here just amazed.
Kevin
--------
History is a great teacher if you take time to study it.
Steve Bennett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259395#259395
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming Tool |
Jake, I've used an edge forming tool in a couple of places on my 701. It is not
really that necessary when dealing with pulled rivets. The tendency for the
lap joint to open up comes from the process of driving rivets as opposed to pulling
them. I've been reviewing the Van's RV-4 preview plans lately and they
have a pretty good description of what happens diring the driving and why it
is necessary to put a slight bend on the edge of the sheet. If you do decide
to use an edge former on your skins, practice a bunch befor hand. They are a
little tricky to use and can look kind of ugly it you don't get it quite right.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
--- On Tue, 8/25/09, Jake Crause <jakecrause@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Jake Crause <jakecrause@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Edge Forming Tool
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Received: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 4:51 AM
> Quick question for the
> group. Do any kit buildershere (or plans
> builders for that matter) use an edge forming tool on a
> regular basis? Those who don't, have you seen any
> tendency for edges to pull up on lap joints when
> riveting?
>
__________________________________________________________________
Message 6
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I don't understand what the below is, the link goes to a blank page
Kevin
john.marzulli(at)gmail.co wrote:
>
> History is a great teacher if you take time to study it.
>
> Steve Bennett
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259395#259395 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259395#259395)
> h as List Un/Subscription,
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ====
>
>
>
> [b]
--------
History is a great teacher if you take time to study it.
Steve Bennett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259442#259442
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Joe Spencer Wrote |
I dunno who's right or wrong here, but there's been a lot of awfully good
posts on various subjects by everyone concerned here. It would be a shame
to lose the input of good people over a disagreement like this.
I think its time to let this topic fade away, everyone kiss and make up, and
move on. There are lots of good topics coming up that we all need advice
on, and everyone's different thoughts and ideas are appreciated by us all.
The weather is predicted to be great today, so I'm off to recheck all my V
speeds, then repeat it all minus slats, then put on VG's and do it again.
Should be fun, but a long day. I'll report back with the numbers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Joe Spencer Wrote
> <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>
> The reason Joe got p****d is that HE chooses his words carefully TOO, and
> because you were negligent in deleting extraneous stuff from the post, he
> got quoted as saying stuff he didn't agree with , much less SAY. I
> would have said the same thing, pay attention and you're the one that
> needs to apologize.
>
> John
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry" <lrm@skyhawg.com>
> To: "701 list" <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:20 PM
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Joe Spencer Wrote
>
>
> I really try to chose my words very carefully. I read and
>> re-read my posts before I send them. I only re-read what I write.> Take
>> care, Larry N1345L
>>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Things were running so smoothly...... |
I really thought this would die out after a day or two. Wrong.
When the networks pull "The Simpsons" off for lack of interest, maybe they'll run
"Larry & Joe" instead of "Larry, Curly & Moe."
This entire exercise has raised the CO2 level several notches, run Polar bears
off icebergs, caused the Government to kill the Clunker program, revived interest
in a cover-up at Roswell and increased sales of email firewall products.
There is no "right" or "wrong" in either camp...it just got out of control.
Enough is enough. Stop. Whoa. Quit. Cool it.
You guys go stand in the corner for one hour; don't talk, don't write emails, no
eating, drinking or sitting.....then write on the blackboard 100 times, "I will
not do whatever it was ever again unless I just can't restrain myself, and
I'll not wear this cap with the propeller on top the rest of this week."
Recall that new members of this List are usually warned that they'll need a 'thick
skin' to survive.
You guys have been around long enough to know that nobody intentionally stabs another....chides
maybe, but NEVER do we reflect on apparent lack of proper parentage.
So either get along, ignore it, or just go to the offender's house and kick his
ass, but do it off-line.
Please archive!
Zed/owner of flame-proof suit
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Joe Spencer Wrote |
Regardless of who is right or wrong or how strong you feel about
something, you don't cross the line by calling people liars or stupid.
You just don't, it's an unwritten rule. And when you do, you owe that
person an apology. Is that too difficult for you to understand?
You see what's below, I guess I would be negligent if I didn't delete
it. Do you get my point?
Larry N1345L
John Bolding wrote:
> <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>
> The reason Joe got p****d is that HE chooses his words carefully TOO,
> and because you were negligent in deleting extraneous stuff from the
> post, he got quoted as saying stuff he didn't agree with , much less
> SAY. I would have said the same thing, pay attention and you're the
> one that needs to apologize.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry" <lrm@skyhawg.com>
> To: "701 list" <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:20 PM
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Joe Spencer Wrote
>
>
>
> I really try to chose my words very carefully. I read and
>> re-read my posts before I send them. I only re-read what I write.>
>> Take care, Larry N1345L
>>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Slats/No slats + VG's V speed checks |
Listees:
BokKat wrote: " I'm off to recheck all my V speeds, then repeat it all
minus slats, then put on VG's and do it again"
I would have liked to do the same eventually but have concluded that
the FAA Regs make it very difficult to accomplish. Please let us know
your numbers and, if possible, with GPS cross checks for IAS accuracy.
Thanks,
Stan
701/3300
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Things were running so smoothly...... |
I'm with Zed, but have to admit I'm on pins and needles, the "winner" always gets
the last word.
Roy 701 etc.
do not archive
----- Original Message ----
From: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:45:29 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Things were running so smoothly......
I really thought this would die out after a day or two. Wrong.
When the networks pull "The Simpsons" off for lack of interest, maybe they'll run
"Larry & Joe" instead of "Larry, Curly & Moe."
This entire exercise has raised the CO2 level several notches, run Polar bears
off icebergs, caused the Government to kill the Clunker program, revived interest
in a cover-up at Roswell and increased sales of email firewall products.
There is no "right" or "wrong" in either camp...it just got out of control.
Enough is enough. Stop. Whoa. Quit. Cool it.
You guys go stand in the corner for one hour; don't talk, don't write emails, no
eating, drinking or sitting.....then write on the blackboard 100 times, "I will
not do whatever it was ever again unless I just can't restrain myself, and
I'll not wear this cap with the propeller on top the rest of this week."
Recall that new members of this List are usually warned that they'll need a 'thick
skin' to survive.
You guys have been around long enough to know that nobody intentionally stabs another....chides
maybe, but NEVER do we reflect on apparent lack of proper parentage.
So either get along, ignore it, or just go to the offender's house and kick his
ass, but do it off-line.
Please archive!
Zed/owner of flame-proof suit
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Slats/No slats + VG's V speed checks |
Log book entry right?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:50 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Slats/No slats + VG's V speed checks
> I would have liked to do the same eventually but have concluded that
> the FAA Regs make it very difficult to accomplish. Please let us know
> your numbers and, if possible, with GPS cross checks for IAS accuracy.
>
> Stan
> 701/3300
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Slats/No slats + VG's V speed checks |
>I would have liked to do the same eventually but have concluded that
>the FAA Regs make it very difficult to accomplish. Please let us know
>your numbers and, if possible, with GPS cross checks for IAS accuracy.
The FAA part was simple with my FSDO. A phone call notifying of
reentering Phase 1 testing for 5 hours after a major change, followed up
with a letter. They responded with a letter of approval. New wt/bal and
proper logbook entries, do the testing, another logbook entry and that
was about it. Basically. I think it's detailed in one of the FAA pubs
somewhere but don't know which.Maybe some FSDOs are harder to work with,
I don't know about that. But the regs are simple and allow you to do
this, last time I checked.
Joe
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming Tool |
If you edge form too close to the rivet line, sometimes you get dimples
around the rivets when they pull down.
Edge forming is super simple, I do a lot with a block of nylon that I cut
a groove in with a bandsaw. I just hold the sheet down on the work table
grab the edge with the slot in the nylon block hold a bend and slide it
back and forth along the edge. In my opinion, I can get just as nice an
edge with this, as with other tools, and it's super cheap. I think a block
of hardwood (oak), with a groove would work just fine as well.
Jeff
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Things were running so smoothly...... |
The recent "coaching" comments are well said, lighthearted and even entertaining.
[Wink] But the "fun" needs to end soon...I forgot, what were we talking about??
[Rolling Eyes] Don
--------
701 #76120
Jabiru #2456 51hours
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Message 16
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[quote="JohnDRead(at)aol.com"]I am familiar with vgs and how they work. The fact
is that a slotted wing is the best way to get STOL characteristics. And I'll
repeat vgs make a poor (or under performing) airfoil work better. They will
not make a regular airfoil into a STOL airfoil. Find a copy of Abbot and Von
Doenhoff, they explain slots very well.
John Read
I didnt see anything on vg's in Abbot and Von Doenhoff what pg. John
dave
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