Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:04 AM - Re: Home built Help and Jon Croke/......ok that is all (ray)
2. 07:44 AM - Re: Yep, ON TO BUILDING a CH750 (LarryMcFarland)
3. 07:47 AM - Re: Home built Help and Jon Croke/......ok that is all (BokKat)
4. 08:34 AM - Re: Yep, ON TO BUILDING a CH750 (David Mikesell)
5. 01:34 PM - Re: 801 Videos (Jake Crause)
6. 02:49 PM - Re: Gascolator position for 701? (jetboy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Home built Help and Jon Croke/......ok that is |
all
Just to be clear, does Jon have any official affiliation with any of the
Zenith/Zenair companies? What are his qualifications to be giving
advice on this subject?
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
(Working on 801 stab)
Art Gibeaut wrote:
>
> OK guys, what do you say we stop fanning the fire, and let this die.
>
> Here's my "one man's opinion" and I'm not trying to influence anyone; Jon is
a great guy and has been of immense help to me on my 701. I own all of his 701
DVD's and he has always promptly answered my questions, either by email or on
the phone no matter how stupid they were. I too will keep the DVD's as a record
and remembrance of the fun I've had on this project. But that's just me, and
I'm in no way judging anyone else.
>
> My point is this; he is an excellent resource and his work is invaluable to present
and future builders. I think we can all agree that we want him to continue
his excellent work, so what do you say we all just stop beating this to death
and get back to building. We're not the 601 crowd. How about it? Please?
>
> --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Home built Help and Jon Croke/......ok that
is all
>> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 6:20 PM
>> David,
>>
>> I agree that Jon's sending that message was an unwise
>> move. It was an over-reaction to someone selling his
>> videos. Not smart ...
>>
>> But now you are over-reacting to Jon's over-reaction.
>> Hear me out ...
>>
>>
>>
>> If you read his message dispassionately, it was really
>> quite benign. All he was saying was "Hey, if everybody
>> does this, then my business won't have a chance, and
>> there won't be any videos in the future." None of
>> the viciousness that you have attributed to it was in his
>> message.
>>
>>
>> As to his cancelling your order, my guess would be that it
>> might have been more of a reaction to your spirited posts
>> than your selling his videos.
>>
>> I've talked to Jon a number of times and I believe
>> he's a good guy, and I will continue to do business with
>> him.
>>
>>
>> Will I sell his videos when I'm done? No, but not
>> because he doesn't want me to. I'll keep them
>> because they are a good video record of how my airplane is
>> put together. I believe they are worth keeping for future
>> reference.
>>
>>
>> Ken Ryan
>> CH 750, tail complete, moving slowly and deliberately
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 2:32 PM,
>> <skyguynca@skyguynca.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys I am sorry that Jon chose to take this public on the
>> forum. He
>>
>> basically said by selling my new/unused videos I am taking
>> money from him
>>
>> and going to drive him out of business. Then he
>> cancel's my order for the
>>
>> CH750 DVD's....wow talking about driving someone out of
>> business, he is
>>
>> doing that for himself.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well I am going to take a more legal channel with Jon since
>> we had a
>>
>> contract and he accepted it when he said he would ship my
>> videos today and
>>
>> then decided to not ship them at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for all your support guys, one thing I suggest:
>>
>> If doing business with Homebuit Help or Jon Croke, get
>> everything in writing
>>
>> because you can see where being a customer got me.
>>
>>
>>
>> David M.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
>>
>> [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On Behalf Of joe motis
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:06 PM
>>
>> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
>>
>> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Home built Help and Jon
>> Croke
>>
>>
>>
>> <joemotis@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon,
>>
>> I bought a couple of your videos and I am using them to
>> scratch build my CH
>>
>> 750
>>
>> I am building at EAA 96 's hangar in Compton Ca and
>> have had quite a
>>
>> bit of interest from and help from a few of the Young
>> Eagles. I was
>>
>> considering giving a talk at our monthly meeting and
>> showing one of
>>
>> the videos to the chapter to try and incite some interest
>> to get
>>
>> someone else to start building a CH 750. Now I am wondering
>> if that is
>>
>> ethical or not. I kind of see it as if I buy a movie and
>> watch it with
>>
>> my friends. I am not sure now, from you're point of
>> view if that is
>>
>> ethical.
>>
>> What is your take?
>>
>> My opinion on cancelling this gentleman's order is;
>> what a shame and a
>>
>> poor business decision. Finally, what kind of support are
>> you talking
>>
>> about? If I hit a wall the choices are Zenith, my tech
>> advisers with
>>
>> EAA and this list. I wouldn't even consider calling
>> you, no offense
>>
>> meant. I would call you if the DVD was defective and that
>> is about it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe Motis
>>
>> scratch built CH 750
>>
>> WilliamWynn Corvair
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:10 PM, David Mikesell <skyguynca@skyguynca.com>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well Jon cancelled my order for the CH750 videos. Well
>> that totally ruins
>>
>>> all respect for this guy. He is a real piece of work.
>> I sell something
>>
>> that
>>
>>> I bought from him that is brand new and unused, he
>> wants me to just throw
>>
>> it
>>
>>> away and waste the money that I worked to earn. Since
>> I sell the new
>>
>> unused
>>
>>> videos and reply to his rude and uncalled for comments
>> he cancels my
>>
>> order.
>>
>>> I must say he has a deep metal problem.
>>> David M.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Jon Croke
>>> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:39 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Homebuilt Help
>> DVD's for the 701 for sale
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Homebuilt Help DVD's
>> for the 701 for sale
>>
>>> Hey guys, I am no longer building the 701 and looking
>> to sell my Homebuilt
>>
>>> Help DVDs. I have
>>> It is perfectly legal to buy and sell these videos
>> second-hand, but I must
>>
>>> state that both buyers and sellers of
>> previously-purchased DVDs will not
>>
>>> be welcome to get technical support from me.
>>> Business is business and we all need to save a buck
>> by "recycling" - but
>>
>>> this is a sure method to put my one-man operation out
>> of business.
>>
>>> I appreciate every customer that makes a purchase from
>> me -- thanks for
>>
>> your
>>
>>> support.
>>> Jon
>>> HomebuiltHELP
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matro
>>
>>
>>
>> nics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
>>
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>>
>> -List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
>>
>> ==========
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> ==========
>>
>> le, List Admin.
>>
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yep, ON TO BUILDING a CH750 |
Hi David,
I just visited with Mike Maury, who is scratch building his 750 in Iowa.
He's on scanman55@partnercom.net
and I don't know if he's onto the Matronics page yet. I'm sure he'd be
pleased to hear from you and
share the building experience.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote:
>
> I have been studying my CH750 Plans and I am soooooo pumped about
> finally starting to scratch build it. I have watched Doug at QSP
> putting their 750 kit together (oh and for you guys who dont know
> they are having a open house/rudder workshop/BBQ get together this
> weekend!!!) and I must say what a improvement to the 701. I wish I
> could afford the kit but alas with my wife in medical school becoming
> a doctor I have to build from scratch. I love building from scratch so
> no big deal. Anyone else scratch building a 750?
>
> David M.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *NYTerminat@aol.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 07, 2009 6:05 PM
> *To:* zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith701801-List: Home built Help and Jon Croke
>
> And Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> In a message dated 10/7/2009 7:44:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> Jon@joncroke.com writes:
>
> This is not the forum for some these issues, so this will be my
> last on this
> topic.
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *
>
> *
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Home built Help and Jon Croke/......ok that is |
all
I think he's just a guy who had built Zenith aircraft before, so carefully
filmed every detail of the construction of one, then sold the videos.
I had good enough technical service from Zenith, but sometimes with one
exception, I felt I was interrupting their day and taking up their valuable
time. Once or twice I felt I was being scolded for not understanding
something, even though I had previously built two aircraft and had flown a
few thousand hours over 30 years.
After I discovered the videos and consulted Jon by e-mail or phone, I found
he knew every nut and bolt and has all kinds of neat tricks he passed along
to me for constructing various frustrating head scratching parts. I found
it much easier to talk to Jon about 'how to' details than the Zenith guys.
Not knocking the Zenith guys at all, they gave good information but it was
just easier for me and personally I got a lot of good info and tricks of the
trade from him. Only one time I received a return e-mail but that was
several months later and only contained a short cryptic unhelpful reply.
So I personally think Jon is performing a darned good public service to
builders who choose to use him and would hate to see him go out of business.
I suggested to Zenith and Jon that that his videos should be included in the
kit price and be part of the kit. This would be a tremendous resource and
time saver for us all, even the Zenith tech support phone people. Never
heard from Zenith about it. Presumably opens a liability hassle for them.
Again, not taking sides - just my experiences......
Wind finally went down in ND so time to go and fly and let you guys keep
building out there! Trust me, all those hours of building are worth it! My
last post, too.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "ray" <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Home built Help and Jon Croke/......ok that
is all
>
> Just to be clear, does Jon have any official affiliation with any of the
> Zenith/Zenair companies? What are his qualifications to be giving advice
> on this subject?
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
> (Working on 801 stab)
>
> Art Gibeaut wrote:
>> <aagibeaut@yahoo.com>
>>
>> OK guys, what do you say we stop fanning the fire, and let this die.
>> Here's my "one man's opinion" and I'm not trying to influence anyone; Jon
>> is a great guy and has been of immense help to me on my 701. I own all of
>> his 701 DVD's and he has always promptly answered my questions, either by
>> email or on the phone no matter how stupid they were. I too will keep the
>> DVD's as a record and remembrance of the fun I've had on this project.
>> But that's just me, and I'm in no way judging anyone else.
>>
>> My point is this; he is an excellent resource and his work is invaluable
>> to present and future builders. I think we can all agree that we want him
>> to continue his excellent work, so what do you say we all just stop
>> beating this to death and get back to building. We're not the 601 crowd.
>> How about it? Please?
>>
>> --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Home built Help and Jon Croke/......ok
>>> that is all
>>> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
>>> Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 6:20 PM
>>> David,
>>>
>>> I agree that Jon's sending that message was an unwise
>>> move. It was an over-reaction to someone selling his
>>> videos. Not smart ...
>>>
>>> But now you are over-reacting to Jon's over-reaction.
>>> Hear me out ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you read his message dispassionately, it was really
>>> quite benign. All he was saying was "Hey, if everybody
>>> does this, then my business won't have a chance, and
>>> there won't be any videos in the future." None of
>>> the viciousness that you have attributed to it was in his
>>> message.
>>>
>>>
>>> As to his cancelling your order, my guess would be that it
>>> might have been more of a reaction to your spirited posts
>>> than your selling his videos.
>>>
>>> I've talked to Jon a number of times and I believe
>>> he's a good guy, and I will continue to do business with
>>> him.
>>>
>>>
>>> Will I sell his videos when I'm done? No, but not
>>> because he doesn't want me to. I'll keep them
>>> because they are a good video record of how my airplane is
>>> put together. I believe they are worth keeping for future
>>> reference.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken Ryan
>>> CH 750, tail complete, moving slowly and deliberately
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 2:32 PM, <skyguynca@skyguynca.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Guys I am sorry that Jon chose to take this public on the
>>> forum. He
>>>
>>> basically said by selling my new/unused videos I am taking
>>> money from him
>>>
>>> and going to drive him out of business. Then he
>>> cancel's my order for the
>>>
>>> CH750 DVD's....wow talking about driving someone out of
>>> business, he is
>>>
>>> doing that for himself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well I am going to take a more legal channel with Jon since
>>> we had a
>>>
>>> contract and he accepted it when he said he would ship my
>>> videos today and
>>>
>>> then decided to not ship them at all.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for all your support guys, one thing I suggest:
>>>
>>> If doing business with Homebuit Help or Jon Croke, get
>>> everything in writing
>>>
>>> because you can see where being a customer got me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David M.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
>>>
>>> [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com]
>>> On Behalf Of joe motis
>>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:06 PM
>>>
>>> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Home built Help and Jon
>>> Croke
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <joemotis@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jon,
>>>
>>> I bought a couple of your videos and I am using them to
>>> scratch build my CH
>>>
>>> 750
>>>
>>> I am building at EAA 96 's hangar in Compton Ca and
>>> have had quite a
>>>
>>> bit of interest from and help from a few of the Young
>>> Eagles. I was
>>>
>>> considering giving a talk at our monthly meeting and
>>> showing one of
>>>
>>> the videos to the chapter to try and incite some interest
>>> to get
>>>
>>> someone else to start building a CH 750. Now I am wondering
>>> if that is
>>>
>>> ethical or not. I kind of see it as if I buy a movie and
>>> watch it with
>>>
>>> my friends. I am not sure now, from you're point of
>>> view if that is
>>>
>>> ethical.
>>>
>>> What is your take?
>>>
>>> My opinion on cancelling this gentleman's order is;
>>> what a shame and a
>>>
>>> poor business decision. Finally, what kind of support are
>>> you talking
>>>
>>> about? If I hit a wall the choices are Zenith, my tech
>>> advisers with
>>>
>>> EAA and this list. I wouldn't even consider calling
>>> you, no offense
>>>
>>> meant. I would call you if the DVD was defective and that
>>> is about it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe Motis
>>>
>>> scratch built CH 750
>>>
>>> WilliamWynn Corvair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:10 PM, David Mikesell
>>> <skyguynca@skyguynca.com>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well Jon cancelled my order for the CH750 videos. Well
>>> that totally ruins
>>>
>>>> all respect for this guy. He is a real piece of work.
>>> I sell something
>>>
>>> that
>>>
>>>> I bought from him that is brand new and unused, he
>>> wants me to just throw
>>>
>>> it
>>>
>>>> away and waste the money that I worked to earn. Since
>>> I sell the new
>>>
>>> unused
>>>
>>>> videos and reply to his rude and uncalled for comments
>>> he cancels my
>>>
>>> order.
>>>
>>>> I must say he has a deep metal problem.
>>>> David M.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Jon Croke
>>>> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:39 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Homebuilt Help
>>> DVD's for the 701 for sale
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Homebuilt Help DVD's
>>> for the 701 for sale
>>>
>>>> Hey guys, I am no longer building the 701 and looking
>>> to sell my Homebuilt
>>>
>>>> Help DVDs. I have
>>>> It is perfectly legal to buy and sell these videos
>>> second-hand, but I must
>>>
>>>> state that both buyers and sellers of
>>> previously-purchased DVDs will not
>>>
>>>> be welcome to get technical support from me.
>>>> Business is business and we all need to save a buck
>>> by "recycling" - but
>>>
>>>> this is a sure method to put my one-man operation out
>>> of business.
>>>
>>>> I appreciate every customer that makes a purchase from
>>> me -- thanks for
>>>
>>> your
>>>
>>>> support.
>>>> Jon
>>>> HomebuiltHELP
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matro
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> nics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
>>>
>>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>>
>>> -List"
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
>>>
>>> ==========
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>> ==========
>>>
>>> le, List Admin.
>>>
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yep, ON TO BUILDING a CH750 |
Thanks Larry, will do !!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Yep, ON TO BUILDING a CH750
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Hi David,
> I just visited with Mike Maury, who is scratch building his 750 in Iowa.
> He's on scanman55@partnercom.net
> and I don't know if he's onto the Matronics page yet. I'm sure he'd be
> pleased to hear from you and
> share the building experience.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> do not archive
>
> skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote:
>>
>> I have been studying my CH750 Plans and I am soooooo pumped about finally
>> starting to scratch build it. I have watched Doug at QSP putting their
>> 750 kit together (oh and for you guys who dont know they are having a
>> open house/rudder workshop/BBQ get together this weekend!!!) and I must
>> say what a improvement to the 701. I wish I could afford the kit but alas
>> with my wife in medical school becoming a doctor I have to build from
>> scratch. I love building from scratch so no big deal. Anyone else scratch
>> building a 750?
>>
>> David M.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *NYTerminat@aol.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 07, 2009 6:05 PM
>> *To:* zenith701801-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Zenith701801-List: Home built Help and Jon Croke
>>
>> And Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> In a message dated 10/7/2009 7:44:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> Jon@joncroke.com writes:
>>
>> This is not the forum for some these issues, so this will be my
>> last on this
>> topic.
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>> *
>
>
>
Message 5
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|
Jon,-=0A=0AWhen are you going to get around to filming an 801?- Boy do
I need it......=0A=0AJake=0APooler, Ga=0Awww.homebuiltairplanes.com=0A=0A__
oo.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator position for 701? |
Because there needs to be a drain at the lowest point in the fuel system its best
to combine this with the gascolator position in the aft compartment on one
side, so the drain is available via a hole underneath. I did this with an ACS
unit and the drain check is easy to reach down the RHS near the main gear.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267146#267146
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