Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:42 AM - Re: 701 stalls (jetboy)
2. 04:41 AM - Instrument panel mounting (Harvey Richards)
3. 06:19 AM - Re: 701 stalls (Ryan Vechinski)
4. 07:55 AM - Re: Instrument panel mounting (Larry)
5. 08:54 AM - Re: 701 stalls (Les Goldner)
6. 10:41 AM - Re: Instrument panel mounting (Keith Ashcraft)
7. 10:45 AM - cabin heat (Alvin Rose)
8. 10:59 AM - Re: 701 stalls (BokKat)
9. 11:10 AM - Re: cabin heat (Robert D. Taylor)
10. 11:53 AM - Re: cabin heat (BokKat)
11. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: 701 stalls (JG)
12. 07:13 PM - Re: Instrument panel mounting (Larry)
Message 1
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I have not been able to get mine to power off stall. There is not enough elevator
authority available at low speeds without the propwash present. It just rides
down like the others said around 40 kts with elevator on the stop and -400fpm.
with power on and high nose yes I have had rapid wingdrop which I'm not allowing
to develop further like I was quite comfortable with spins in the C150A.
I'm actually quite fond of the no stall characteristics and one of the effects
of fitting the micro vortex generator kits to the elevator might affect this,
so I'm still deciding on that mod.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268488#268488
Message 2
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| Subject: | Instrument panel mounting |
I seem to remember somewhere I read about changing the mounts on either side of
the instrument panel that rivet to the cabin frame. Has anyone here done this?
pros and cons. Thanks
--------
CH 701
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268498#268498
Message 3
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First off=2C I have no experience in a 701=2C so take this for what you pai
d for it.
I will=2C however=2C point you in the direction of an account I read=2C on
the builder portion of the zenith website:
http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/7-learn.html
> From: bobkat@btinet.net
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
> Date: Sun=2C 18 Oct 2009 16:50:36 -0500
>
>
> Mine does exactly the same as Gordon's. Airspeed decreases=2C it responds
> sluggishly=2C but just sits there=2C no buffet=2C no nose drop and if you
watch
> the VSI it increases to 3 - 400 fpm holding the stick all the way back.
> I keep the ball centered=2C so I don't know if it would drop a wing with
> uncoordinated flight or not. I'd expect it would a bit=2C but for what it
s
> worth the fellow in Oshkosh last year (from Cal) told the crowd it is alm
ost
> unspinnable. Its really safe=2C anyway! If its performing and responding
> to control inputs normally=2C I wouldn't fear a deeper stall. As JG calls
it=2C
> "Nibble at it" at first=2C then work harder at it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday=2C October 18=2C 2009 8:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
>
>
> >
> > Mine is very dossal and it doesn't really stall. No buffet of any kind
=2C it
> > just loses speed and the vertical speed increases --it remains
> > controllable. Absolutely nothing violent=2C weird or unexpected.
> > Gordon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
> > To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday=2C October 18=2C 2009 6:21 AM
> > Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
> >
> >
> >> <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
> >>
> >> This question is for the more experienced pilots. Have you taken your
> >> 701 into a deep power off stall? Some aircraft will eventually enter a
> >> spin but others will continue to buffet=2C fall and rebuffed over and
over
> >> (with the ball centered of course). What has been your experience? I a
m
> >> in the test flight stage of my airplane and don?Tt want to get to d
eep
> >> in before I have a feel for what will happen next.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268383#268383
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel mounting |
You might be interest in the way I built mine. I mounted the entire
instrument panel on rubber mounts. You can see a picture of the mounts
on the following site. http://www.skyhawg.com/dash.html. The beauty of
my arrangement is that I can remove the entire panel in one piece. I
left about 18" extra wire bundle. I can actually take the panel out of
the cabin or put it in the seat to work on.
Take care, Larry, N1345L
Harvey Richards wrote:
>
> I seem to remember somewhere I read about changing the mounts on either side
of the instrument panel that rivet to the cabin frame. Has anyone here done this?
pros and cons. Thanks
>
> --------
> CH 701
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268498#268498
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 5
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Thanks Ryan,
This is good stuff to keep in mind when we start to get too cocky.
Les
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Vechinski
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:14 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
First off, I have no experience in a 701, so take this for what you paid
for
it.
I will, however, point you in the direction of an account I read, on the
builder portion of the zenith website:
http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/7-learn.html
> From: bobkat@btinet.net
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:50:36 -0500
>
>
> Mine does exactly the same as Gordon's. Airspeed decreases, it
responds
> sluggishly, but just sits there, no buffet, no nose drop and if you
watch
> the VSI it increases to 3 - 400 fpm holding the stick all the way
back.
> I keep the ball centered, so I don't know if it would drop a wing with
> uncoordinated flight or not. I'd expect it would a bit, but for what
its
> worth the fellow in Oshkosh last year (from Cal) told the crowd it is
almost
> unspinnable. Its really safe, anyway! If its performing and responding
> to control inputs normally, I wouldn't fear a deeper stall. As JG
calls
it,
> "Nibble at it" at first, then work harder at it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
>
>
<cscsail@gmavt.net>
> >
> > Mine is very dossal and it doesn't really stall. No buffet of any
kind,
it
> > just loses speed and the vertical speed increases --it remains
> > controllable. Absolutely nothing violent, weird or unexpected.
> > Gordon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
> > To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 6:21 AM
> > Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
> >
> >
> >> <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
> >>
> >> This question is for the more experienced pilots. Have you taken
your
> >> 701 into a deep power off stall? Some aircraft will eventually
enter a
> >> spin but others will continue to buffet, fall and rebuffed over and
over
> >> (with the ball centered of course). What has been your experience?
I am
> >> in the test flight stage of my airplane and don?Tt want to get
to deep
> >> in before I have a feel for what will happen next.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268383#268383
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
&===============
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel mounting |
Larry,
What metal thickness is the "frame" made from? Is it 0.025 or heavier?
Keith
********************************************************************
________________________________
From: Larry <lrm@skyhawg.com>
Sent: Mon, October 19, 2009 8:49:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Instrument panel mounting
You might be interest in the way I built mine. I mounted the entire instrument panel on rubber mounts. You can see a picture of the mounts on the following site. http://www.skyhawg.com/dash.html. The beauty of my arrangement is that I can remove the entire panel in one piece. I left about 18" extra wire bundle. I can actually take the panel out of the cabin or put it in the seat to work on.
Take care, Larry, N1345L
Harvey Richards wrote:
>
> I seem to remember somewhere I read about changing the mounts on either side
of the instrument panel that rivet to the cabin frame. Has anyone here done this?
pros and cons. Thanks
>
> --------
> CH 701
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268498#268498
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 7
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Has anyone found a solution to cabin heat in the 701.
I have a shroud around the muffler and a fan to blow in air
but it does not provide much heat ..especially when it is cold.
does anyone have a good and effective solution for cabin heat
up north
Alvin Rose
Message 8
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I agree. Sounds like he entered an accererated stall while doing a sort
of 'low altitude Chandelle!" I admit I haven't even pushed these much
at high altitude because the angle of attack is so great I get
uncomfortable. But a straight ahead power on or power off stall is
pretty docile.
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Goldner
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
Thanks Ryan,
This is good stuff to keep in mind when we start to get too cocky.
Les
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Vechinski
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:14 AM
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
First off, I have no experience in a 701, so take this for what you
paid for it.
I will, however, point you in the direction of an account I read, on
the builder portion of the zenith website:
http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/7-learn.html
> From: bobkat@btinet.net
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:50:36 -0500
>
<bobkat@btinet.net>
>
> Mine does exactly the same as Gordon's. Airspeed decreases, it
responds
> sluggishly, but just sits there, no buffet, no nose drop and if you
watch
> the VSI it increases to 3 - 400 fpm holding the stick all the way
back.
> I keep the ball centered, so I don't know if it would drop a wing
with
> uncoordinated flight or not. I'd expect it would a bit, but for what
its
> worth the fellow in Oshkosh last year (from Cal) told the crowd it
is almost
> unspinnable. Its really safe, anyway! If its performing and
responding
> to control inputs normally, I wouldn't fear a deeper stall. As JG
calls it,
> "Nibble at it" at first, then work harder at it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
>
>
<cscsail@gmavt.net>
> >
> > Mine is very dossal and it doesn't really stall. No buffet of any
kind, it
> > just loses speed and the vertical speed increases --it remains
> > controllable. Absolutely nothing violent, weird or unexpected.
> > Gordon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
> > To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 6:21 AM
> > Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 stalls
> >
> >
> >> <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
> >>
> >> This question is for the more experienced pilots. Have you taken
your
> >> 701 into a deep power off stall? Some aircraft will eventually
enter a
> >> spin but others will continue to buffet, fall and rebuffed over
and over
> >> (with the ball centered of course). What has been your
experience? I am
> >> in the test flight stage of my airplane and don?Tt want to get
to deep
> >> in before I have a feel for what will happen next.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268383#268383
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
&===============
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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If your setup provides good air flow, but the air is not warm enough,
perhaps the air needs a bit more time to be heated. You could try
stuffing that shroud with coarse steel wool to slow down the airflow.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alvin Rose
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 1:05 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: cabin heat
Has anyone found a solution to cabin heat in the 701.
I have a shroud around the muffler and a fan to blow in air
but it does not provide much heat ..especially when it is cold.
does anyone have a good and effective solution for cabin heat
up north
Alvin Rose
Message 10
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Up here in ND I wear my big pac boots. I had a Kitfox/912 with a hot
water heater and blower I plumbed into the water coolng circuit which
worked OK. I sold it before I tweaked it fully, though. I always
meant to install a simple bypass to switch all the hot liquid heat over
to the in cockpit radiator. I had hooked them up in paralell but had no
means of bypassing the external water cooler. That might be my next
project fot the 701.
Last winter I found that there was so much outside air leakage into the
cokcpit that it really helped to put simple weather stripping on the
doors and seal off any prospective holes where cold air could permeate.
I got lots of mileage out of those simple steps.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alvin Rose
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 12:05 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: cabin heat
Has anyone found a solution to cabin heat in the 701.
I have a shroud around the muffler and a fan to blow in air
but it does not provide much heat ..especially when it is cold.
does anyone have a good and effective solution for cabin heat
up north
Alvin Rose
Message 11
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*Gday All,**
*
*I suppose that I should comment here, having done some hundreds upon
hundreds of stalls and slow maneuvers in 701 and Savannah aircraft**. Some
with slats and many more with VGs, always watching for any unpleasant
surprises. **
*
*I've tried all sorts of stalls, even with the ball way off-center, and
everything else wrong that I could think of. Even if one wing drops, it's
just a matter of easing the stick and some opposite rudder, and it's flying
again. This wing is so steady and dependable, and the 'stall' is really
just an increasing 'mush'. I've never ever felt like it was dropping into a
spin. It's actually a pleasant experience, and really good practice, to try
idle and low power stalls at altitude - gives a good 'feel' for the aircraft
at low speed.**
*
*The only way I've found an alarming wing drop is with full flaps on the
Savannah (Zenith eliminated that setting many years ago, for good reason...)
With that full flap, and a sudden large aileron input, it's possible to get
a rapid wing drop opposite to the aileron input. The down-going aileron
has stalled, causing a loss of lift and large increase in drag, pulling that
wing back and down. It's pretty alarming, but once again, it's only a
matter of centering and easing the stick and the plane is flying again.
I've never felt like it was entering a real spin. *
*
*
*The only other maneuver that I have found alarming, and is much more likely
to encounter in real life, is wing drop due to torque roll from a 100hp
Rotax driving a large geared prop at full power. At very slow speed there's
just not enough aerodynamic force from the ailerons to counteract all that
torque force. Lifting off at too slow an airspeed and straight into a climb
that keeps the airspeed low, can start an increasing roll that is made worse
by countering with aileron. I know of four 701's that have come to grief
just this way...... If you must lift off very slow then be ready with lots
of rudder to prevent the roll from starting and hold the aircraft down in
ground effect so it can accelerate rapidly.*
*
*
*For recent detailed test results on these effects have a look at *
*http://www.stolspeed.com/flight-testing-savannah
**
*
*Even with VGs on the elevator, the stall is still just an increasing mush
at a higher and higher angle of attack and thus lower airspeed. But with
slats, the drag increases enormously as the angle of attack increases, so
the airspeed then drops rapidly, and the aircraft will drop suddenly due to
no lift at that nil speed. That's great for a short landing if you're one
foot above the ground, but just don't let it happen when you're ten feet
up...... *
*
*
*Please don't be afraid of practicing stalls in your STOL aircraft. You
need to have a good familiar feel of the handling at those speeds if you're
really going to do any STOL Ops.*
*
*
*It's a heck of a lot of fun - enjoy it!*
*
*
*JG*
*
*
*
*
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Mike Hoffman <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>wrote:
> mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Thanks to all that replied, I hate surprises.
>
> Mike H
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268455#268455
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel mounting |
I believe it's .025, not real sure. I used the blank panel that came
with the kit, just cut out the center. Take care, Larry
Keith Ashcraft wrote:
> Larry,
> What metal thickness is the "frame" made from? Is it 0.025 or heavier?
>
> Keith
> ********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Larry <lrm@skyhawg.com>
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, October 19, 2009 8:49:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Instrument panel mounting
>
>
> You might be interest in the way I built mine. I mounted the entire instrument panel on rubber mounts. You can see a picture of the mounts on the following site. http://www.skyhawg.com/dash.html. The beauty of my arrangement is that I can remove the entire panel in one piece. I left about 18" extra wire bundle. I can actually take the panel out of the cabin or put it in the seat to work on.
>
> Take care, Larry, N1345L
>
> Harvey Richards wrote:
>>
>> I seem to remember somewhere I read about changing the mounts on either side
of the instrument panel that rivet to the cabin frame. Has anyone here done this?
pros and cons. Thanks
>>
>> --------
>> CH 701
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268498#268498
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
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