---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/23/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:03 AM - Re Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited (Peter Thomson) 2. 03:20 AM - Cowling Burnt by Exhaust (Mike Hoffman) 3. 03:54 AM - Re: Cowling Burnt by Exhaust (mksoucy@yahoo.com) 4. 05:07 AM - Re: adhesive (ejessee) 5. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: adhesive (MacDonald Doug) 6. 06:58 AM - Re: Cowling Burnt by Exhaust (n801bh@netzero.com) 7. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: adhesive (Curt Thompson) 8. 07:57 AM - Re: Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited (Craig Payne) 9. 08:07 AM - Re: Cowling Burnt by Exhaust (LarryMcFarland) 10. 08:58 AM - Re: Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited (Dan Wilde) 11. 12:05 PM - Re: Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited (Clive Richards) 12. 12:09 PM - Re: adhesive (Clive Richards) 13. 12:17 PM - Fuel level sender and tank removal with 7-WTA-1 cover (kmccune) 14. 12:18 PM - Re: adhesive (ejessee) 15. 12:29 PM - Rudder cable tension (ejessee) 16. 01:26 PM - Re: Rudder cable tension. (Gary Gower) 17. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: adhesive (LarryMcFarland) 18. 11:41 PM - Re: adhesive (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:09 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited From: Peter Thomson Dan I (and I suspect a lot of others) fly on 10% ethanol with no return line, no problems. There are various old wives tales here. Bing even made a float and bowl kit for "additives". I heard such kit had new problems of its own. Eventually Rotax came out for 10% with no changes. Jabiru have a service letter on ethanol and this is the best treatment I've seen. You can probably find it on their website www.jabiru.net.au happy flying Peter CH701SP Rotax 912ULS Trio EZPilot Thermostasis oil thermostat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:36 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Cowling Burnt by Exhaust From: "Mike Hoffman" This is a heads up when installing your cowling. Pay attention to the clearance between the exhaust pipes and cowling at the forward most point. After 7 hours of engine run time I have noticed the paint on the outside of the cowling starting to blister about the size of a quarter. When I installed the cowling I thought I had ample clearance (about 1 1/2 inches) but I found the exhaust starting to burn the cowling on the inside. This could have a disastrous effect if the cowling got hot enough to start a fire. I have now wrapped both pipes (at the front ) with heat wrap exhaust tape and put heat reflective pads on the inside of the cowling for additional protection as well. These materials were bought from Summit Racing and were not very expensive. I have only run the engine on the ground for about 3/4 of am hour and and seems to be the solution. I was called out of town for work and will continue to put more time on it when I return. Anyone else have this problem? Mike Hoffman Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269033#269033 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:51 AM PST US From: "mksoucy@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Cowling Burnt by Exhaust I would also make sure the engine is not running to lean Mike Sent from my iPod On Oct 23, 2009, at 6:20 AM, "Mike Hoffman" wrote: This is a heads up when installing your cowling. Pay attention to the clearance between the exhaust pipes and cowling at the forward most point. After 7 hours of engine run time I have noticed the paint on the outside of the cowling starting to blister about the size of a quarter. When I installed the cowling I thought I had ample clearance (about 1 1/2 inches) but I found the exhaust starting to burn the cowling on the inside. This could have a disastrous effect if the cowling got hot enough to start a fire. I have now wrapped both pipes (at the front ) with heat wrap exhaust tape and put heat reflective pads on the inside of the cowling for additional protection as well. These materials were bought from Summit Racing and were not very expensive. I have only run the engine on the ground for about 3/4 of am hour and and seems to be the solution. I was called out of town for work and will continue to put more time on it when I return. Anyone else have this problem? Mike Hoffman Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269033#269033 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: adhesive From: "ejessee" Tommy, It was "Dennis" in Michigan. I did get your reply as well and as always.. thank you. I think I'll go with the slightly larger trim if I can find the number. I don't feel at liberty to post a full picture of his beautiful plane, but the trim I am looking for is in the attachment. Are there pictures of your plane on the forum? I don't remember seeing it. Thanks again. -------- Ernest Jessee N4931M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269042#269042 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/windowtrim_159.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:43 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: adhesive I got similar stuff to that from Aircraft Spruce. Don't recall the part number though. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada Do Not Archive --- On Fri, 10/23/09, ejessee wrote: > From: ejessee > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: adhesive > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Received: Friday, October 23, 2009, 7:06 AM > --> Zenith701801-List message > posted by: "ejessee" > > Tommy, > It was "Dennis" in Michigan. I did get your reply as > well and as always.. thank you. I think I'll go with > the slightly larger trim if I can find the number. > > I don't feel at liberty to post a full picture of his > beautiful plane, but the trim I am looking for is in the > attachment. > > Are there pictures of your plane on the forum? I > don't remember seeing it. > > Thanks again. > > -------- > Ernest Jessee > N4931M > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269042#269042 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/windowtrim_159.jpg > > > > > Zenith701801-List Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > __________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:47 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Cowling Burnt by Exhaust I have commented on this a few times.. Remember guys, when the EGT gauge says the temp is 1400+f that is HOT... I have taken a IR temp gun and r ead the numbers off a stove top burner on my electric stove. When glowin g red hot it registers 1450f. We all know you can't hold your hand close to this for even a second so when designing your firewall forward set u p keep this in mind... Moral of the story is radiant heat needs to be de alt with properly. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Mike Hoffman" Subject: Zenith701801-List: Cowling Burnt by Exhaust bay.rr.com> This is a heads up when installing your cowling. Pay attention to the cl earance between the exhaust pipes and cowling at the forward most point. After 7 hours of engine run time I have noticed the paint on the outside of the cowling starting to blister about the size of a quarter. When I installed the cowling I thought I had ample clearance (about 1 1/2 inche s) but I found the exhaust starting to burn the cowling on the inside. This could have a disastrous effect if the cowling got hot enough to sta rt a fire. I have now wrapped both pipes (at the front ) with heat wrap exhaust tape and put heat reflective pads on the inside of the cowling f or additional protection as well. These materials were bought from Summi t Racing and were not very expensive. I have only run the engine on the ground for about 3/4 of am hour and an d seems to be the solution. I was called out of town for work and will c ontinue to put more time on it when I return. Anyone else have this problem? Mike Hoffman Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269033#269033 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ____________________________________________________________ Obama Raises Pell Grants Get Your Degree with Government Grants and Scholarships! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=Rw_JfxYULUICK8sxgrOZv wAAJ1HJCPpfjg3mPNA79-KnIlAaAAQAAAAFAAAAAApApj4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABI2R wAAAAA ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:41 AM PST US From: "Curt Thompson" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: adhesive The part I used was ACS 05-01500 ($.97/ft). Pictures is attached. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/opencenter.php I used Permatex #80328 Weatherstrip Cement to glue it in place. It did not work. I'm looking for something better to glue it. Anyone know of something that works? Curt ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:52 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited You can build the equivalent of the official Rotax fuel manifold with parts from Aircraft Spruce and McMaster-Carr. Look at their multi-port manifolds. One tricky part is the restrictor on the return line. I think the Rotax manuals call this out as a 0.030 inch pinhole. I intend to make mine by filling a brass NPT nipple with solder and drilling a pinhole in it. The manifold will be mounted vertically and the return line will come off of the top of the manifold (like the Rotax one) since (as I understand it) in a vapor lock situation what is being returned is vapor, not liquid fuel. Another subtle point is that the lines to and from the mechanical fuels pump have different IDs (1/4 inch in and 5/16ths out?). On the 701 I won't be trying to return the fuel all the way to the wing tanks. I'm running the return line to a multi-port manifold (also from Spruce or McMaster) on the firewall where it will mix with cool fuel coming from the tanks. I believe this is the way Quality Sport Planes plumbs their 701s. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of txpilot Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:29 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited I just found out that Rotax has now approved autogas with 10% ethanol for the 912 series engines. Since it seems 100LL will eventually be going away, I have to revisit the question about the fuel return line from the fuel manifold. I was originally planning on running 100LL on my aircraft so I wasn't concerned about vapor lock issues. Therefore, I never installed the return line suggested by Rotax. However, since it seems the powers-that-be will eventually force us to alternative fuels, I'm wondering if installing this return line for running premium autogas would be a good idea. I just priced the parts needed from Lockwood to install the fuel manifold and it comes to a whopping $514.01. Am I the only one concerned about this? Is anyone currently running autogas without the return line? Thanks, Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269003#269003 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:59 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Cowling Burnt by Exhaust Yes Mike, I tried to burn up my cowling in the first run ups and had to change materials and also wrap the pipes. Your exhaust needs to be 3/4-inch or more clear of the cowling, and when its even that close it's a good idea to put in an aluminum piece to get more clearance, like a bump-out or half tube like the one seen on my cowling. The front end is open and allows air to make the exhaust pipe area even cooler. A flange riveted behind each side can be blended in with the fiberglass without problems. Hard to even see them after you've painted. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/radforwardfront.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/cowlfairingsinside.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com at 147 hours Mike Hoffman wrote: > > This is a heads up when installing your cowling. Pay attention to the clearance between the exhaust pipes and cowling at the forward most point. > > After 7 hours of engine run time I have noticed the paint on the outside of the cowling starting to blister about the size of a quarter. When I installed the cowling I thought I had ample clearance (about 1 1/2 inches) but I found the exhaust starting to burn the cowling on the inside. > > This could have a disastrous effect if the cowling got hot enough to start a fire. I have now wrapped both pipes (at the front ) with heat wrap exhaust tape and put heat reflective pads on the inside of the cowling for additional protection as well. These materials were bought from Summit Racing and were not very expensive. > > I have only run the engine on the ground for about 3/4 of am hour and and seems to be the solution. I was called out of town for work and will continue to put more time on it when I return. > > Anyone else have this problem? > > Mike Hoffman > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:38 AM PST US From: Dan Wilde Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited t > Am I the only one concerned about this? Is anyone currently running autogas without the return line? > > Thanks, > > Dan Ginty > I have been running premium autogas on my 912S (100HP) for over 90 hours with no problems and I do not have a return line. I connected the fuel lines per Zenith firewall forward instructions. All of my fuel lines are enclosed in firesleeve which should help shield it from high temps. Dan Wilde 701 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:09 PM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited Dan Here in UK it is mandatory to install the return line to a fuel tank to use auto gas as per Rotax instructions, but our CAA say we cannot use auto gas if it contains alcohol unless we are a microlight. Clive ----- Original Message ----- From: "txpilot" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 3:28 AM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fuel return line on Rotax 912ULS - revisited > > I just found out that Rotax has now approved autogas with 10% ethanol for > the 912 series engines. Since it seems 100LL will eventually be going > away, I have to revisit the question about the fuel return line from the > fuel manifold. > > I was originally planning on running 100LL on my aircraft so I wasn't > concerned about vapor lock issues. Therefore, I never installed the > return line suggested by Rotax. However, since it seems the > powers-that-be will eventually force us to alternative fuels, I'm > wondering if installing this return line for running premium autogas would > be a good idea. I just priced the parts needed from Lockwood to install > the fuel manifold and it comes to a whopping $514.01. > > Am I the only one concerned about this? Is anyone currently running > autogas without the return line? > > Thanks, > > Dan Ginty > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269003#269003 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:31 PM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: adhesive Hi Ernest Ray used Poly Zap on his 601as recomended on zenith list some years ago Clive ----- Original Message ----- From: "ejessee" Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: adhesive > > I'm painting my 701 and putting all new rubber round wing roots, > windshield, dash, etc. > > What sort of adhesive have you guys used to hold that rubber in place? > Especially around the wing roots, it seems that something will be > required. > > > One more thing that is embarressing... Someone with a beautiful polished > 701 gave me a McMaster Carr part number for their windshield trim. I have > lost the email [Embarassed] If someone could tell me the part number > for that windshield trim I am seeing from McMaster Carr, I would be > greatful. I beg pardon for loosing it. > > Thanks. > > -------- > Ernest Jessee > N4931M > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268969#268969 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fuel level sender and tank removal with 7-WTA-1 cover From: "kmccune" What is the reason for moving the fuel sender to the side? It seams at the very least more leak proof on top. And for those with the optional 7-WTA-1 wing tank cover two questions: Can you remove the tank easily through the opening? Can you use two per wing for dual tanks? I ask because I am thinking of a second set of covers just in case I want to add a second set of tanks later. Thanks Kevin -------- History is a great teacher if you take time to study it. Steve Bennett Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269137#269137 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: adhesive From: "ejessee" Thanks. Do you know if Poly Zap will work for gluing rubber to aluminum on wing roots? again... thanks for responding. -------- Ernest Jessee N4931M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269138#269138 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Rudder cable tension From: "ejessee" I'm full of questions as I begin re-assembly after paint. Thanks for your patience. Even before painting, I felt that my rudder cables might need to be tightened. I have searched the forum. I found plans for a tension guage: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=55022&highlight=rudder+cable However, I would have expected that even 10 lbs might be too much for the pullies that the cables go through as they turn up toward the tail from level with the floor. Any pointers on setting this tension. Do I need to build this tension gage and if so, what is correct tension? I have all the drawings, but have not located any guidance on setting that tension. -------- Ernest Jessee N4931M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269139#269139 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:08 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Rudder cable tension. Hello Ernest, - Had the same thoughts as you about the pulleys, so I just used the "good en ough" tension gauge built in my hands...-- :-)-- Just at the moment the rudder looked firm when I tried the play...- Also check (while adjus ting the tension) that the front wheel is straight when the-rudder is cen tered. - Hope this helps. Saludos Gary Gower. - --- On Fri, 10/23/09, ejessee wrote: From: ejessee Subject: Zenith701801-List: Rudder cable tension I'm full of questions as I begin re-assembly after paint.- Thanks for you r patience. Even before painting, I felt that my rudder cables might need to be tighten ed.- I have searched the forum.- I found plans for a tension guage:- http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=55022&highlight=rudder+cabl e However, I would have expected that even 10 lbs might be too much for the p ullies that the cables go through as they turn up toward the tail from leve l with the floor. Any pointers on setting this tension.- Do I need to build this tension ga ge and if so, what is correct tension?- I have all the drawings, but have not located any guidance on setting that tension. -------- Ernest Jessee N4931M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269139#269139 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:16 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: adhesive Curt, You might look up a product called Poly Zap. That's what I used for my acrylic to trim rubber and it works well for 4 years now. Only takes a drop each inch or so to the bottom of the groove. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Curt Thompson wrote: > The part I used was ACS 05-01500 ($.97/ft). Pictures is attached. > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/opencenter.php > > I used Permatex #80328 Weatherstrip Cement to glue it in place. It did not > work. I'm looking for something better to glue it. Anyone know of > something that works? > > Curt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:41 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: adhesive Also as I recall you don't use a continuous bead. Instead use a drop every inch or so. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clive Richards Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: adhesive Hi Ernest Ray used Poly Zap on his 601as recomended on zenith list some years ago Clive ----- Original Message ----- From: "ejessee" Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: Zenith701801-List: adhesive > > I'm painting my 701 and putting all new rubber round wing roots, > windshield, dash, etc. > > What sort of adhesive have you guys used to hold that rubber in place? > Especially around the wing roots, it seems that something will be > required. > > > One more thing that is embarressing... Someone with a beautiful polished > 701 gave me a McMaster Carr part number for their windshield trim. I have > lost the email [Embarassed] If someone could tell me the part number > for that windshield trim I am seeing from McMaster Carr, I would be > greatful. I beg pardon for loosing it. > > Thanks. > > -------- > Ernest Jessee > N4931M > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268969#268969 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith701801-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith701801-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith701801-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith701801-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.