Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:23 AM - Some Very Nice Comments... (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:53 AM - Re: 701 Max Flap Extension Speed (Carl)
2. 05:10 AM - Elevator Cables Again (Tommy Walker)
3. 05:26 AM - Elevator cables again (Joe Spencer)
4. 07:55 AM - Re: Elevator Cables Again (David L. Orr)
5. 09:30 AM - Re: Elevator Cables Again (Geoff Heap)
6. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Cables Again (Gordon)
7. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Cables Again (Robert Pelland)
8. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Cables Again (David L. Orr)
9. 01:48 PM - Re: 701 Max Flap Extension Speed (jetboy)
10. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Cables Again (Robert Pelland)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Some Very Nice Comments... |
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Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Max Flap Extension Speed |
Dan
Been close to that point, without damage. For peace of mind I would closely
inspect everything in between the flap lever and the wing skin for wrinkles
in the area of the flapper attach points, with particular attention to the
control rod attach points near the fuselage.
I've added a yellow warning lite on my enunciator when flaps are down. In my
case it helps to counter the age/maturity factor.
Carl
---- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Wilde" <dwilde@clearwire.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:10 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 Max Flap Extension Speed
>
> FYI 701 pilots:
>
> This last weekend I was practicing short field takeoffs. I deployed the
> flaps (have only one setting at 15 degrees) and had a good takeoff. After
> the takeoff I got distracted by the radio or scenery or who knows what and
> proceeded to fly to my first destination. After a couple of minutes, I
> noticed that my trim tab did not seem to be working correctly as it was
> not in the normal position for high speed cruise i.e. 90 mph. Then it
> dawned on my that the flaps were still deployed and I was cruising at 90
> well over the flap extension limit of 65 mph. I slowed the plane down,
> raised the flaps and everything returned to normal.
> During the short time the flaps were deployed at high speed, the plane did
> not exhibit any bad behavior. There was no flutter, shaking or anything
> else alarming. On landing, I looked over the flaperons closely and there
> was no signs of stress.
>
> I am sure I am not the only one who has ever done this but I don't
> remember seeing it here so I thought I would mention it.
> Dan Wilde
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Elevator Cables Again |
That is an anomaly of the 701. Like Keith said, because of the offset you
will have that tension when the stick is moved to the right. A couple of
guys came up with a solution they said works. I have a picture of it, but
haven't tried it. You basically have to remake the control arm.
I guess the trick is to get the cable tight enough when the stick is to the
left that it doesn't flop and not bind too much when the stick it to the
right. Just keep experimenting.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Elevator cables again |
>I got Caleb on the phone and he gave me the cable tension; 20# + or- 5#
but I can't
get close to 20# without the cables tightening and limiting movement to
the
right.
No way I can run any tension on mine...the only way I could get full
right aileron without binding is to run the elevator cables way slack.
On mine, it gets worse with flaps out, maybe one of the reasons they
took out the 2nd notch of flaps. I put the 2nd notch in mine and with a
100 horse 912 on a go around with both notches out there isn't enough
aileron to keep it from rolling uncontrollably left. IMO the control
system needs a redesign to symmetrical to eliminate the problem
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Cables Again |
Tommy, would you mind posting a picture of the modified control arm.
Thanks
David L.Orr
EAA430
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Cables Again |
I don't think Zenith is coming clean with you. They know perfectly well that this
is a (small) bona fide design flaw. At one time they would suggest a bungee
cord hooked onto the loose cable inside the rear fuselage to keep the tension
on it. I tried this and it's half assed. I gave up on these halfway solutions
until I came across a post of a fix that made perfect sense. i looked at the
two pictures and knew it was the right answer. I can post the pics tomorrow. I
don't think it's the same one that Tommy means. Basically you split off the elevator
bell crank away from the Torque tube and mount it separately. Its not
a quick fix but in my opinion its the right way to do it. I'm not flying yet but
i have the modifications done and now each control works fine with no interference
from the other.......Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272707#272707
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Cables Again |
I agree -- it is a bad design. I have to keep the cables almost slack when
the stick is pulled right, so that it won't bind-up when moved left. I do
use the bungee cord system and it seems to work ok, but the stick always has
a pull to the right when flying and when the flaperons are deployed the
whole system tightens up and it is difficult to move the stick full left. At
over a 100 hrs I've gotten used to it, but if there is a better design, I'd
like to see it.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 12:29 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Elevator Cables Again
>
> I don't think Zenith is coming clean with you. They know perfectly well
> that this is a (small) bona fide design flaw. At one time they would
> suggest a bungee cord hooked onto the loose cable inside the rear fuselage
> to keep the tension on it. I tried this and it's half assed. I gave up on
> these halfway solutions until I came across a post of a fix that made
> perfect sense. i looked at the two pictures and knew it was the right
> answer. I can post the pics tomorrow. I don't think it's the same one that
> Tommy means. Basically you split off the elevator bell crank away from the
> Torque tube and mount it separately. Its not a quick fix but in my opinion
> its the right way to do it. I'm not flying yet but i have the
> modifications done and now each control works fine with no interference
> from the other.......Geoff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272707#272707
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Cables Again |
Geoff
Here are a few pics of the mod, that makes everything work properly.
Sorry for the poor quality of the photos.
Robert
the 701 & 750 scratch
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Heap
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 12:29 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Elevator Cables Again
<stol10@comcast.net>
I don't think Zenith is coming clean with you. They know perfectly
well that this is a (small) bona fide design flaw. At one time they
would suggest a bungee cord hooked onto the loose cable inside the rear
fuselage to keep the tension on it. I tried this and it's half assed. I
gave up on these halfway solutions until I came across a post of a fix
that made perfect sense. i looked at the two pictures and knew it was
the right answer. I can post the pics tomorrow. I don't think it's the
same one that Tommy m
eans. Basically you split off the elevator bell crank away from the
Torque tube and mount it separately. Its not a quick fix but in my
opinion its the right way to do it. I'm not flying yet but i have the
modifications done and now each control works fine with no interference
from the other.......Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272707#272707
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Cables Again |
Thanks for the pictures Robert. Did you have to modify both ends of the Pitch
Rod with CW rod ends or just the end in the picture?
Thanks
David L. Orr
EAA430
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Max Flap Extension Speed |
Dan the specified flaps down speed has never been revised since the change to 1100lbs
weight and max flap angle 16 degrees contained in the plans rev.4 so there
should be a higher speed that is structurally safe, just that nobody has stated
what it is.
The CZAW aircraft are placarded at 55 Kts because they operate in Europe meeting
the BCAR-S rules at 1100lbs. (these are microlights in Europe and OZ / NZ rather
than homebuilts/ experimental)
I have also had many occasions of flaps down overspeed, although with the Jabiru
2200 it wont cruise much over 55 Kt. With only 16 deg flaps down available,
its easy to get 70Kts plus on approach, in this condition theres not much G load
though. I inspected the entire control system for problems, nothing found.
I did discover a rigging error where my flaps were set with approx. 4 degress
reflex (that is they were at minus 4 when should have been 0 setting) and I think
this occured when misreading the diagrams rather than any overload occuring)
I now recheck regularly.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272732#272732
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Cables Again |
David
I didn't do the actual modification. It was done by a friend of mine who
Winters in Arizona, so I don't know if he did not. However, knowing him,
I would expect that both ends were done in this fashion.
Fly safe
Robert
EAA851832
----- Original Message -----
From: David L. Orr
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Elevator Cables Again
<dlorrzen701@earthlink.net>
Thanks for the pictures Robert. Did you have to modify both ends of
the Pitch Rod with CW rod ends or just the end in the picture?
Thanks
David L. Orr
EAA430
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