Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:23 AM - Contributions Down By 21%... (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:11 AM - Financing the CH-801 (Jay Parker)
2. 07:02 AM - Chat Reminder (George Race)
3. 07:53 AM - Re: Financing the CH-801 (John Swartout)
4. 08:07 AM - Re: Financing the CH-801 (n801bh@netzero.com)
5. 08:51 AM - Re: Financing the CH-801 (John Bolding)
6. 09:44 AM - Re: Financing the CH-801 (Jay Parker)
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| Subject: | Contributions Down By 21%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover
my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income
to support the Lists and rely solely on the contributions of members to keep the
expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
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also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related
data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and
the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter
of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time as well. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs
and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments,
make a modest contribution each year to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a contribution today. I also offer some incentive
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Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Financing the CH-801 |
I think this message may be dismissed as irrelevant by a lot of you veteran
pilots and builders, who build their planes from scratch finding inexpensi
ve alternative engines to put in your plane, and have just essential avioni
cs. You may have a lot of free cash and time to build your planes in other
cases. I do commend your ingenuity and frugal know how to those who can acc
omplish their goals on less money.=C2- But has anyone looked into financi
ng major components on your plane once the airframe has been completed.=C2
- I for one plan to build the CH-801 airframe with spare cash (does anyon
e really have spare cash?) I save without taking out a loan and build each
section slowly, one section at a time until finished. This may take a few y
ears as I rarely have spare cash and time is always a factor. =C2-I may b
e disillusioned and you guys who have actually built your planes may be chu
ckling.=C2- But has anyone gone as far as to try to find financial backin
g/loans
for other major components such as a new engine or glass panel avionics?
=C2- For guys like me, could I get some ideas as to how you did it or pla
n to do? The engines and glass avionics ain=99t cheap and I would lik
e to know if you can get a loan for these other things other than maxing ou
t credit cards (lordy, not the way to go I would think at their interest ra
tes). Most institutions won=99t give you a loan on a kitplane as ther
e is nothing to show for it until it is finished and certified.=C2- I pla
n to get a 200 hp DeltaHawk Diesel engine once certified in a couple years,
but was shocked to see on their website the final cost of the engine and a
ll the supporting attachments: engine mount, oil and coolant tanks, superch
argers, turbo etc. http://www.deltahawkengines.com/Firewall%20pric
es.shtml coming to a total of $62,500.=C2- That=99s not including p
ropeller.=C2- Holy cow!=C2- When I was looking at engines I was thinkin
g maybe $25,000 to $30,000 for a brand
new engine, but apparently all the supporting parts add up significantly.
=C2- When building my avionics panel using a program called X-Panel 5000,
I=99m looking at about another $25,000 and that=99s something
I don=99t want to skimp on.=C2- How are you folks, who like me, who
are not particularly rich, going to get those other big money items?=C2-
If you=99re independently wealth this isn=99t an issue.
Jay Parker
=C2-
Message 2
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Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT
www.mykitairplane.com <http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Financing the CH-801 |
Jay, when I started my CH-801, I wanted the DeltaHawk diesel 200 hp, too.
Its projected cost, at the time, "in a couple of years," was $19,000. I go
t
a delivery position (free) and went about building my airplane. Oh, yeah,
that was -- let's see -- ten years ago? When the projected price, "in a
couple of years" reached $30,000 for the DeltaHawk, I started thinking abou
t
the soon-to-be-produced Jabiru 5100 "180 hp" engine. The introductory pric
e
(before the first one rolled off the assembly line) was around $13,800.
Such a deal. In the event, it turned out to be a 170 hp engine, I had some
concerns about static cooling, and it wasn't clear that I could use a large
diameter propeller (80" or so), so I abandoned that idea. After they went
into production, it seems to me the price jumped to around $19,000. In the
end (well, about 4 years ago) I decided not to screw around with an unprove
n
engine, since I'm going to fly my bush plane in the bush, and bought a
Teledyne Mattituck TMX O-360 carbureted ECI kit engine, which was about
$18,000 then without magnetos--since my one nod to newfangled technology is
to install Emag's P-mags. Incidentally, the plane isn't done yet, but it i
s
about done. Just hook up and route the engine wires, fit the cowl, fit the
glass, wire up the panel, slap a propeller on it, and put some seats in it,
and it's done (yes, it's already painted). Oh, and build the new (2004?)
wider-span horizontal tail. Personally, I wouldn't borrow money to finance
parts. These things can take time, and compound interest doesn't lower th
e
cost :). I bought my engine when I did because things were going so well
(danger signal) I thought I'd need it imminently. I've got about $7,000 in
my completely adequate day VFR panel, complete with Dynon glass and a backu
p
altimeter and airspeed. There are cheaper ways to get flying than buying a
new engine. Build within your budget. (My $0.02)
John
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think this message may be dismissed as irrelevant by a lot of you
> veteran pilots and builders, who build their planes from scratch finding
> inexpensive alternative engines to put in your plane, and have just
> essential avionics. You may have a lot of free cash and time to build you
r
> planes in other cases. I do commend your ingenuity and frugal know how to
> those who can accomplish their goals on less money. But has anyone looke
d
> into financing major components on your plane once the airframe has been
> completed. I for one plan to build the CH-801 airframe with spare cash
> (does anyone really have spare cash?) I save without taking out a loan an
d
> build each section slowly, one section at a time until finished. This may
> take a few years as I rarely have spare cash and time is always a factor.
> I may be disillusioned and you guys who have actually built your planes
> may be chuckling. *But has anyone gone as far as to try to find financia
l
> backing/loans for other major components such as a new engine or glass pa
nel
> avionics?* For guys like me, could I get some ideas as to how you did it
> or plan to do? The engines and glass avionics ain=92t cheap and I would l
ike
> to know if you can get a loan for these other things other than maxing ou
t
> credit cards (lordy, not the way to go I would think at their interest
> rates). Most institutions won=92t give you a loan on a kitplane as there
is
> nothing to show for it until it is finished and certified. I plan to get
> a 200 hp DeltaHawk Diesel engine once certified in a couple years, but wa
s
> shocked to see on their website the final cost of the engine and all the
> supporting attachments: engine mount, oil and coolant tanks, supercharger
s,
> turbo=85 etc. http://www.deltahawkengines.com/Firewall%20prices.shtml com
ing
> to a total of $62,500. That=92s not including propeller. Holy cow! Whe
n I
> was looking at engines I was thinking maybe $25,000 to $30,000 for a bran
d
> new engine, but apparently all the supporting parts add up significantly.
> When building my avionics panel using a program called X-Panel 5000, I=92
m
> looking at about another $25,000 and that=92s something I don=92t want to
skimp
> on. How are you folks, who like me, who are not particularly rich, going
> to get those other big money items? If you=92re independently wealth thi
s
> isn=92t an issue.
>
> Jay Parker
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Financing the CH-801 |
I will be as polite as possible. I am not rich. in fact far from it, but
every penny I have, I earned. Proper planning with your money and livin
g within your means goes a long toward being successful with any project
. Too often we see people who have to be seen with the 'latest/greatest/
yada yada yada. Most if not all end up going belly up and hard working h
onest citizens eat their abusive spending habits through higher prices o
n items, higher credit fees and taxes. I would love to have a Gulfstream
G-5 to fly to my private island and cruise around in a 300' boat. Ain't
gonna happen <G>. If you can't buy the whole kit outright and up fron
t Zenith offers componants so you can pay as you go. As for the Delta ha
wk, I was one of their first customers who offered them a firm purchase
commitment and they were going to deliver my engine in April 2001. I eve
n offered to to all the R&D to get it to fit in an 801 but the rudely to
ld me I didn't have the skills to engineer a firewall forward package. Y
ou know the rest of the story by now. Remember................... If th
ere is a will, there is a way... How honest are you with yourself?
do not archive.
Tailwinds
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Financing the CH-801
I think this message may be dismissed as irrelevant by a lot of you vete
ran pilots and builders, who build their planes from scratch finding ine
xpensive alternative engines to put in your plane, and have just essenti
al avionics. You may have a lot of free cash and time to build your plan
es in other cases. I do commend your ingenuity and frugal know how to th
ose who can accomplish their goals on less money. But has anyone looked
into financing major components on your plane once the airframe has bee
n completed. I for one plan to build the CH-801 airframe with spare cas
h (does anyone really have spare cash?) I save without taking out a loan
and build each section slowly, one section at a time until finished. Th
is may take a few years as I rarely have spare cash and time is always a
factor. I may be disillusioned and you guys who have actually built yo
ur planes may be chuckling. But has anyone gone as far as to try to fin
d financial backing/loans for other major components such as a new engin
e or glass panel avionics? For guys like me, could I get some ideas as
to how you did it or plan to do? The engines and glass avionics ain
=99t cheap and I would like to know if you can get a loan for these othe
r things other than maxing out credit cards (lordy, not the way to go I
would think at their interest rates). Most institutions won=99t gi
ve you a loan on a kitplane as there is nothing to show for it until it
is finished and certified. I plan to get a 200 hp DeltaHawk Diesel engi
ne once certified in a couple years, but was shocked to see on their web
site the final cost of the engine and all the supporting attachments: en
gine mount, oil and coolant tanks, superchargers, turbo etc. ht
tp://www.deltahawkengines.com/Firewall%20prices.shtml coming to a total
of $62,500. That=99s not including propeller. Holy cow! When I
was looking at engines I was thinking maybe $25,000 to $30,000 for a bra
nd new engine, but apparently all the supporting parts add up significan
tly. When building my avionics panel using a program called X-Panel 500
0, I=99m looking at about another $25,000 and that=99s somet
hing I don=99t want to skimp on. How are you folks, who like me,
who are not particularly rich, going to get those other big money items?
If you=99re independently wealth this isn=99t an issue.Jay
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
==
____________________________________________________________
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gAAJ1HJCPpfjg3mPNA79-KnIlAaAAQAAAAFAAAAAD7nqT4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABNle
QAAAAA
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Financing the CH-801 |
No knowledge of the Deltahawk other than seeing it at Osh a few times
BUT it reminds me of the saga of the DynaCam that I am very familiar
with from as far back as the early 70's.
Was just about to invest in the company when my Dad's broker ( a Glasair
builder) did some research and .... well the story is too long as it's
still going on today and there are no airplanes flying around with
Dynacams in them.
Put in a Lycoming, Continental or Franklin until one of the new diesels
gets some time on them,
assume you are aware of http://www.dieselair.com/ ..if not it will get
you all caught up on the state of EVERY diesel slated for aircraft.
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Financing the CH-801
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:09:05 -0800 (PST)
I plan to get a 200 hp DeltaHawk Diesel engine once certified
in a couple years, but was shocked to see on their website the final
cost of the engine and all the supporting attachments: engine mount, oil
and coolant tanks, superchargers, turbo etc.
Jay Parker
roelectric.com
com/">www.buildersbooks.com
homebuilthelp.com
www.matronics.com/contribution
1-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
tronics.com
____________________________________________________________
Pharmacy Tech Training
Go to School for Pharmacy Assisting. Get free info and Apply Today!
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Financing the CH-801 |
Thanks for the advice.- DeltaHawk compared their engine to the Lycoming I
O 360 and said it was cheaper than that after you put on all the extra part
s (firewall forward).- I'm still a couple years off from buying an engine
and hopefully DH will get certified and perhaps I'll win the lottery.
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, John Bolding <jnbolding1@teleshare.net> wrote:
From: John Bolding <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Financing the CH-801
No knowledge of the Deltahawk other than seeing it at Osh a few times BUT i
t reminds me of the saga of the DynaCam that I am very familiar with from a
s far back as the early 70's.
Was just about to invest in the company when my Dad's broker ( a Glasair bu
ilder) did some research and .... well the story is too long as it's still
going on today and there are no airplanes flying around with Dynacams in th
em.
Put in a Lycoming, Continental or Franklin until one of the new diesels get
s some time on them,
assume you are aware of http://www.dieselair.com/- ..if not it will get y
ou all caught up on the state of EVERY diesel slated for aircraft.
-
-
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Financing the CH-801
I--plan to get a 200 hp DeltaHawk Diesel engine once certified in a cou
ple years, but was shocked to see on their website the final cost of the en
gine and all the supporting attachments: engine mount, oil and coolant tank
s, superchargers, turbo etc.-
Jay Parker
-
roelectric.com
com/">www.buildersbooks.com
homebuilthelp.com
www.matronics.com/contribution
1-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
tronics.com
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Go to School for Pharmacy Assisting. Get free info and Apply Today!
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