Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:45 AM - Re: CZ seats (ruruny@aol.com)
2. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: CZ seats (John Marzulli)
3. 08:28 AM - Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (Randy L. Thwing)
4. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (Dan Wilde)
5. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (Tom Longo)
6. 10:02 AM - Re: Electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (Gary Gower)
7. 10:39 AM - Re: CZ seats (ga23)
8. 11:36 AM - Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (Geoff Heap)
9. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (Gary Gower)
10. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (Tom Longo)
11. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (Curt Thompson)
12. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (NYTerminat@aol.com)
13. 02:54 PM - Looking for a favor (Tommy Walker)
14. 03:49 PM - Re: Looking for a favor (NYTerminat@aol.com)
15. 06:00 PM - Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? (ronlee)
16. 06:51 PM - Re: Nets (ruruny@aol.com)
17. 07:22 PM - Electric fuel pump behind seat of 701 (Joe Spencer)
18. 10:34 PM - Rotax Ring Mount (John Marzulli)
19. 11:53 PM - Re:Electric fuel pump behind seat of 701 (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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Mine did not come with velcro on the seat backs or the seat itself. I used
velcro on the seat and 2 small brass hinges
at the bottom of each back. I screwed them in the seat and used A4 rivets
on the acft side. The seat backs pivot forward
to give easy access to the 3rd passenger in the luggage compartment(only
kidding).
Brian
http://www.701builder.com/interior04.htm
Message 2
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To address another point: SportAir stopped supporting Zenith and building
accessories some time ago.
I also remember hearing that CZAW went out of business.
John Marzulli
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:40 AM, <ruruny@aol.com> wrote:
> Mine did not come with velcro on the seat backs or the seat itself. I used
> velcro on the seat and 2 small brass hinges
> at the bottom of each back. I screwed them in the seat and used A4 rivets
> on the acft side. The seat backs pivot forward
> to give easy access to the 3rd passenger in the luggage compartment(only
> kidding).
>
> Brian
>
> http://www.701builder.com/interior04.htm
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
do not archive
Hello:
Our Club 1958 172 has no mech pump no elect. pump with Continental
engine. Maybe later Lyc powered ones are the complicated ones? (And
the shakey ones)?
www.eaa163.com click on "flying club" link
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: John Marzulli
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: electric fuel pump behind seat of a
701?
Depends on the 172: Older 172s only have a mechanical pump, newer ones
have the boost pump.
The difference is the newer 172s have fuel injection.
Good luck!
John Marzulli
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
ga23 wrote:
>
> When I was down at Lockwood aviation in Florida I was told that an electric pump
is not needed in high wing planes using a 912 Rotax. As a matter of fact they
told me the new CTS and Tecnams will not have electric fuel pumps. Save your
time and do not put an extra piece of equipment that will not help and can
cause problems. I also bought the same electric pump and never used it, simply
not needed. (My opinion of course)
>
> Greg
>
>
I have 100 hours on my 701 and built it to the plans (no electric fuel
pump). No problems at all so far.
Dan Wilde
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
Instructor that is a friend had a student in training in his Rans S12 with
Rotax 582 and engine started starving for fuel and would only idle due to
paper fuel filter being clogged with water from Ethanol in fuel suspending
water and plugging filter over time. You could not see the water in filter
but could not blow through it, it looked fine. He had replaced his primer
bulb with an in-line Faucet fuel pump a while back so when he saw 0 psi on
the fuel pressure gauge he turned on the electric and got 1 psi of pressure
that let the motor now run at full power to safely fly back and land. The
Rans has fuel tanks in the wings. I put a in-line fuel pump in my Kolb MK
III after that and never had any problems. Just my two cents, everybody has
their own opinion but I have installed one in my 701 that I am building
already and feel better I will have a back up.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan
Wilde
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a
701?
ga23 wrote:
>
> When I was down at Lockwood aviation in Florida I was told that an
electric pump is not needed in high wing planes using a 912 Rotax. As a
matter of fact they told me the new CTS and Tecnams will not have electric
fuel pumps. Save your time and do not put an extra piece of equipment that
will not help and can cause problems. I also bought the same electric pump
and never used it, simply not needed. (My opinion of course)
>
> Greg
>
>
I have 100 hours on my 701 and built it to the plans (no electric fuel
pump). No problems at all so far.
Dan Wilde
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
07:52:00
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
Cost,- AP repair,- lots of more fuel, 100LL fuel cost, more expensive p
arts to fail,- tires more expensive, two more seats, probably lots-more
diferences :-)
-
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Love my little and simple 701 STOL.
--- On Sun, 11/22/09, Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701?
But a Cessna 172 is also a high wing with a mechanical pump and it has a bo
ost pump, no? So what is the difference?
-
-- Craig
-
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith7018
01-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701?
-
The 701 is gravity feed, to a mechanic pump in the 912,- no need a fuel p
ump.- KISS- what is not installed wll not fail...
-
Saludos
Gary Gower,
701 912S-- 275 hrs...
--- On Sun, 11/22/09, ejessee <eejessee@us.ibm.com> wrote:
From: ejessee <eejessee@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Zenith701801-List: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701?
I have a facet fuel pump as shown below.-
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php
I would like to use it as an auxiliary pump (backup pump) on my 912 UL.-
Are there opinions as to the safety of placing this pump behind the seat of
my 701 (right inside the bottom access door)?- I ask as I think about fu
el vapors.
Anyone else placed an electric fuel pump there?
--------
Ernest Jessee
N4931M
Read this topic online here:
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Brian that is what I was thinking about doing only using trim hinges. Small brass
hinges may be a better choice. By the way, where did you get the luggage compartment
nets?
Greg
[quote="ruruny(at)aol.com"]Mine did not come with velcro on the seat backs or the
seat itself. I used velcro on the seat and 2 small brass hinges
at the bottom of each back. I screwed them in the seat and used A4 rivets on
the acft side. The seat backs pivot forward
to give easy access to the 3rd passenger in the luggage compartment(only kidding).
Brian
http://www.701builder.com/interior04.htm (http://www.701builder.com/interior04.htm)
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274433#274433
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
Gravity feed is the theory. In practice, not always so. I've seen enough posts
on this list regarding full wing tanks not running down to the header(I have a
size D tank header). One Scandinavian pilot was concerned that his engine might
stop from fuel starvation. Even though he had two full wing tanks his header
was near empty despite his efforts to get the flow started. Upon landing he
opened the gascolator drain for just a few seconds then closed it again. That
started the flow and the wing tanks began to flow and fill the header. This was
a common post just a few years ago. Most likely caused by bad/insufficient
venting. A Trike owned by a member of my Local EAA chapter (216 in South Jersey)
had an engine out. Inspection of the VENTED fuel tank cap revealed a spider
web to be the cause.
I have a backup facet pump in the cabin just before the line goes through the firewall
to the Gascolator. They are so cheap. Why would I NOT put one there. If
it were to fail fuel can still pass through. It will not impede the Mechanical
pump suction on the Rotax. I also fitted another facet pump behind my seat
on the vertical line from the wing tanks. I may or may not need/use it to get
the flow started but its there if I need it..Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274435#274435
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
Is easy, he as an instructor should know that we (Pilots) should never inst
all a paper gas filter in any aircraft (or ultralight)...-- a Gascolato
r is- enough if we pass the fuel though a Chamois cloth before the gas ta
nk.- As the old pilots do.--
-
No paper filter installed, no filter clogged, no need for an electric pump
that could fail or leak, or...-- That Simple.
-
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Tom Longo <tclongo@att.net> wrote:
From: Tom Longo <tclongo@att.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701
?
Instructor that is a friend had a student in training in his Rans S12 with
Rotax 582 and engine started starving for fuel and would only idle due to
paper fuel filter being clogged with water from Ethanol in fuel suspending
water and plugging filter over time. You could not see the water in filter
but could not blow through it, it looked fine. He had replaced his primer
bulb with an in-line Faucet fuel pump a while back so when he saw 0 psi on
the fuel pressure gauge he turned on the electric and got 1 psi of pressure
that let the motor now run at full power to safely fly back and land. The
Rans has fuel tanks in the wings. I put a in-line fuel pump in my Kolb MK
III after that and never had any problems. Just my two cents, everybody has
their own opinion but I have installed one in my 701 that I am building
already and feel better I will have a back up.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan
Wilde
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a
701?
ga23 wrote:
>
> When I was down at Lockwood aviation in Florida I was told that an
electric pump is not needed in high wing planes using a 912 Rotax. As a
matter of fact they told me the new CTS and Tecnams will not have electric
fuel pumps. Save your time and do not put an extra piece of equipment that
will not help and can cause problems. I also bought the same electric pump
and never used it, simply not needed. (My opinion of course)
>
> Greg
>
>---
I have 100 hours on my 701 and built it to the plans (no electric fuel
pump).- No problems at all so far.
Dan Wilde
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
07:52:00
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
Like I said you don't need one that's good for you, but I have one and won't
be talked out of using it, my choice but thanks for your
advice...........Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:25 PM
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a
701?
Is easy, he as an instructor should know that we (Pilots) should
never install a paper gas filter in any aircraft (or ultralight)... a
Gascolator is enough if we pass the fuel though a Chamois cloth before the
gas tank. As the old pilots do.
No paper filter installed, no filter clogged, no need for an
electric pump that could fail or leak, or... That Simple.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Tom Longo <tclongo@att.net> wrote:
From: Tom Longo <tclongo@att.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat
of a 701?
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 12:15 PM
Instructor that is a friend had a student in training in his Rans
S12 with
Rotax 582 and engine started starving for fuel and would only idle
due to
paper fuel filter being clogged with water from Ethanol in fuel
suspending
water and plugging filter over time. You could not see the water
in filter
but could not blow through it, it looked fine. He had replaced his
primer
bulb with an in-line Faucet fuel pump a while back so when he saw
0 psi on
the fuel pressure gauge he turned on the electric and got 1 psi of
pressure
that let the motor now run at full power to safely fly back and
land. The
Rans has fuel tanks in the wings. I put a in-line fuel pump in my
Kolb MK
III after that and never had any problems. Just my two cents,
everybody has
their own opinion but I have installed one in my 701 that I am
building
already and feel better I will have a back up.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Dan
Wilde
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:45 AM
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat
of a
701?
<dwilde@clearwire.net>
ga23 wrote:
<ga2323@comcast.net>
>
> When I was down at Lockwood aviation in Florida I was told that
an
electric pump is not needed in high wing planes using a 912 Rotax.
As a
matter of fact they told me the new CTS and Tecnams will not have
electric
fuel pumps. Save your time and do not put an extra piece of
equipment that
will not help and can cause problems. I also bought the same
electric pump
and never used it, simply not needed. (My opinion of course)
>
> Greg
>
>
I have 100 hours on my 701 and built it to the plans (no electric
fuel
pump). No problems at all so far.
Dan Wilde
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
07:52:00
--
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The Professional version does not have this message.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
During airplane operations, when do you know when to use the pump? On
always? Landing or takeoff? When the engine starts to sputter? Low fuel
pressure?
Curt
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
I use mine on start up, take off and landing, just like I was taught in the
spam cans. Always do your run up without the electric pump to make sure
your mechanical one is pumping.
Another advantage is if you get vapor lock the electric pump will push
through new fuel rather than the engine pump trying to suck vapors.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/912S/180hrs.
In a message dated 11/23/2009 4:57:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Curt.Thompson@verizon.net writes:
During airplane operations, when do you know when to use the pump? On
always? Landing or takeoff? When the engine starts to sputter? Low fuel
pressure?
Curt
Message 13
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| Subject: | Looking for a favor |
Builders,
I am finishing up my 701 and it's going to be polished. I got most everything
done, but for the final pass.
I am looking to rent/borrow/whatever a Cyclo orbital polisher. I will gladly pay
shipping both ways and take full responsibility if the polisher dies while
I'm using it.
If you have a polisher and don't mind sharing, please contact me at twalker(at)cableone.net
Oh, the reason I don't want to buy one is because I got this 701 sold. Believe
me, the next one is going to be bare or polished. What a job!
Thanks and do not archive.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
--------
Tommy Walker
N8701 - Anniston, AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274453#274453
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for a favor |
Tommy,
It will probably cost more for shipping than to buy one. Even if you buy a
cheap one from Harbor Freight you will be ahead.
Bob Spudis
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
If you test how much fuel will flow out the end of your fuel line at carburetor
level of a Rotax 912, the volume you see will scare you into putting an axillary
elect pump on. Now move the line down to the bottom of the engine and a lot
more fuel will flow.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274486#274486
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Greg,
I did a search on Ebay for cargo nets, I already knew what size I needed
and what kind.
I found one that looked close and emailed the seller for exact dimensions,
it was perfect with hooks.
The one vertical splits the fwd and rear cargo. It also lays across the fw
d cargo to the back of the
seats. I found Bimini eye straps at West Marine, these fasten to the fusel
age with 2 a5 rivets and hold
the cargo net in place. It looks and works good.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Alonso <gregalonso@yahoo.com>Bimini Eye Straps
Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 8:48 pm
Subject: Nets
Brian,
Where did you get the nets for the luggage compartment?
Greg
N701ZG
Message 17
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| Subject: | Electric fuel pump behind seat of 701 |
The reason a backup electric fuel pump is needed on a 912s equipped 701
is that the pitch attitude possible in a light weight max performance
climb puts the engine above the level of the fuel tanks, or potentially
so...if the engine driven fuel pump fails when operating at such a steep
attitude gravity feed won't work; compounding the problem is that the
failure would probably occur at low altitude when trying to clear a
close in obstacle on takeoff. If I am doing a max effort climb I turn it
on...if not I don't. I also turn it on before engine start to check
operation of the pump, then turn it off for start
Mine is on the left side floor near the sidewall where any leaks would
show.
Joe
Message 18
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| Subject: | Rotax Ring Mount |
I have not seen any talk about this, but was wondering if anyone else may
have had this problem:
One of the holes on my Rotax provided ring mount was too small. The holes
are supposed to be AN7 size. Three were fine, but one was just a little too
small.
We ended up drilling it out and all was fine... but still.
Anyone else see this?
BTW - Special thanks to Curt for helping me get the beast on!
http://marzulliphoto.net/Airplanes/Engine-On/10410037_p94GD/1/721226351_fsf2W#721226351_fsf2W
Thanks,
John Marzulli
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Electric fuel pump behind seat of 701 |
Questions to the owners (engine already working or actually flying) that ha
ve the extra electric pump:
1.- Are you sure the final gas pressure (both pumps working) is less than t
he floats can stop?
2.- Do you have a gasoline pressure dial-(could be an EIS) installed in t
he carb side if the fuel system?.
In case the pressure is too high (danger of push the floats down).
3.- Did you installed a gas pressure regulator (another gadget that can pot
entialy fail)betwen the mech pump and the carburators?
4.- Do you know (where to look for) the max pressure that the carb floats c
an stop without danger of flooding?
5.- Did you installed a "crash switch" in case of a take off or landing inc
ident/accident the electric pump will turn instantly off?-
If not will have lots of prssurized gas, flowing in case of fire...
-
Geee, is getting more complicate and dangerous than safe, in my humble opin
ion...
-
Dont have to answer to the list,,,- Just be sure you have the answers.
-
This is not to bother anyone, just my best way to clear doubts in this-hi
gh-redundant instalation.
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Not negative thinking. Just hoping all answers are OK (Safe) in all particu
lar cases.
--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Joe Spencer <jpspencer@cableone.net> wrote:
From: Joe Spencer <jpspencer@cableone.net>
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Electric fuel pump behind seat of 701
The reason a backup electric fuel pump is needed on a 912s equipped 701 is
that the pitch attitude possible in a light weight max performance climb pu
ts the engine above the level of the fuel tanks, or potentially so...if the
engine driven fuel pump fails when operating at such a steep attitude grav
ity feed won't work; compounding the problem is that the failure would prob
ably occur at low altitude when trying to clear a close in obstacle on take
off. If I am doing a max effort climb I turn it on...if not I don't. I also
turn it on before engine start-to check operation of the pump, then turn
it off for start
Mine is on the left side floor near the sidewall where any leaks would show
.
-
Joe
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