---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/11/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:04 AM - Chat (George Race) 2. 08:45 AM - Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/10/10 (sam hord) 3. 12:21 PM - Re: Fork tube analysis and prospective stainless steel substitute (Curt Thompson) 4. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/10/10 (Mark Sherman) 5. 03:52 PM - Re: Fork tube analysis and prospective stainless steel substitute (JG) 6. 04:55 PM - Bungee discussion (dennkrumm@aol.com) 7. 06:00 PM - Re: Bungee discussion (Chris Blackmore) 8. 07:27 PM - Re: Bungee discussion (Art Gibeaut) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:51 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith701801-List: Chat Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT www.mykitairplane.com Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page. George ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/10/10 From: sam hord I have seen the bungee in the plans, but didn't like it. I am going with the push rod. Thank you for your response. If anybody has gone this route please let us hear about it. Sam On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Zenith701801-List Digest Server < zenith701801-list@matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Zenith701801-List Digest can also be found in either of > the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Zenith701801-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text > editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-01-10&Archive=Zenith701801 > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-01-10&Archive=Zenith701801 > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith701801-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sun 01/10/10: 4 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 08:56 AM - Chat (George Race) > 2. 09:41 AM - Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/10 (sam > hord) > 3. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/10 (Art > Gibeaut) > 4. 09:03 PM - Fork tube analysis and prospective stainless steel > substitute (Curt Thompson) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:56:14 AM PST US > From: "George Race" > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Chat > > Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT > > www.mykitairplane.com > > Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page. > George > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:41:52 AM PST US > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/10 > From: sam hord > > How are you keeping the elevater cables separated so they do not rub and > wear? > Sam > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Zenith701801-List Digest Server < > zenith701801-list@matronics.com> wrote: > > > * > > > > ================================================ > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > ================================================ > > > > Today's complete Zenith701801-List Digest can also be found in either of > > the > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > > of the Zenith701801-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text > > editor > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter10-01-08&Archive=Zenith701801 > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter10-01-08&Archive=Zenith701801 > > > > > > ============================================== > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > ============================================== > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Zenith701801-List Digest Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Fri 01/08/10: 1 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 07:57 AM - Re: elevator (Keith Ashcraft) > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 07:57:53 AM PST US > > From: Keith Ashcraft > > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: elevator > > > > Sam, I have seen and think I have a picture or two, but.... I don't know > > how or > > where. > > > > Keith > > CH701 -- scratch > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: sam hord > > Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:24:49 PM > > Subject: Zenith701801-List: elevator > > > > Has anybody changed the elevator cables to push rods? > > > > Sam > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:26:15 PM PST US > From: Art Gibeaut > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - > 01/08/10 > > > Zenith uses a bungey on one of the cables attached to the passenger side. > I'm at > that stage right now, and several of the guys on this list pointed it out > to > me. A picture is in the instructions. > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, sam hord wrote: > > > From: sam hord > > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - > 01/08/10 > > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > > Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 11:22 AM > > How are you keeping the elevater cables > > separated so they do not rub and wear? > > Sam > > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:58 PM, > > Zenith701801-List Digest Server > > wrote: > > > > * > > > > > > > > ======================= > > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > > ======================= > > > > > > > > Today's complete Zenith701801-List Digest can also be > > found in either of the > > > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the > > Digest formatted > > > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > > Hyperlinked Indexes > > > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain > > ASCII version > > > > of the Zenith701801-List Digest and can be viewed with a > > generic text editor > > > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter10-01-08&Archive=Zenith701801 > > > > > > > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter10-01-08&Archive=Zenith701801 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Zenith701801-List > > Digest Archive > > > > > > --- > > > > Total Messages Posted Fri > > 01/08/10: 1 > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > 1. 07:57 AM - Re: elevator (Keith Ashcraft) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Time: 07:57:53 AM PST US > > > > From: Keith Ashcraft > > > > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: elevator > > > > > > > > Sam, I have seen and think I have a picture or two, but.... > > I don't know how or > > > > where. > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > CH701 -- scratch > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: sam hord > > > > Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:24:49 PM > > > > Subject: Zenith701801-List: elevator > > > > > > > > Has anybody changed the elevator cables to push rods? > > > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========= > > > > -List" > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List > > > > ========= > > > > http://forums.matronics.com > > > > ========= > > > > le, List Admin. > > > > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > ========= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:03:42 PM PST US > From: "Curt Thompson" > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fork tube analysis and prospective stainless > steel > substitute > > On my plans built CH701, I have been polishing a few of the parts like the > landing gear and front fork. I was wondering if I could replace the front > fork tube with stainless steel parts and get a similar look. I would need > to make sure that the replacement had the same strength as the original. > So, with the help of my son, we did a SolidWorks analysis of a 4130N tube, > 2 > inch diameter, 21 inches long with a 0.065" wall. The top is solidly > anchored and a force is applied horizontally at the bottom. Here is a link > of the simulation video that SolidWorks made: > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8uamuysV_8 > > > The video ends when the fork tube fails. It took a force of 540 lbs. As > you can see, the tube bent a lot before it failed. If you make the fork > tube stronger you are likely to move the loads elsewhere and it will break > somewhere else. > > > One thing comes to mind here, if you bend the front axle and lock up the > wheel you are going to see a lot more than 540lbs. There was a picture > on > this list over a year ago that showed a bent fork tube after what was > claimed to be a normal landing. I don't know how common this problem > actually is. > > > We substituted the fork tube with T-316L stainless steel in the simulation. > It took a wall thickness of 0.250" before we arrived at a similar result. > Since that would make the fork tube about four times as heavy, I have > decided to stay with the 4130N of the plans. I may go up one notch in > thickness of 4130N though. I might also replace the front axle with a > solid > shaft. On the shaft I have now, I machined bushings and welded them in > place. > > > Curt Thompson > > Redmond, WA, USA > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:48 PM PST US From: "Curt Thompson" Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Fork tube analysis and prospective stainless steel substitute Here is a link to the previous thread that has pictures of how the fork tube bent. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=56639 &highlight=weak+701+nose+gear Curt ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:16 PM PST US From: "Mark Sherman" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/10/10 Sam. I you are going to use pushrods you will need to change the geometry of the elevator bell crank. The cables get looser and tighter depending on the aileron position. That is the reason for the bungee cord, to take up the slack. Mark S. 701/912ULS 80 HRS ----- Original Message ----- From: sam hord To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:40 AM Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/10/10 I have seen the bungee in the plans, but didn't like it. I am going with the push rod. Thank you for your response. If anybody has gone this route please let us hear about it. Sam On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Zenith701801-List Digest Server wrote: * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Zenith701801-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Zenith701801-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 10-01-10&Archive=Zenith701801 Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 10-01-10&Archive=Zenith701801 ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/10/10: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:56 AM - Chat (George Race) 2. 09:41 AM - Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/10 (sam hord) 3. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/10 (Art Gibeaut) 4. 09:03 PM - Fork tube analysis and prospective stainless steel substitute (Curt Thompson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:14 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith701801-List: Chat Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT www.mykitairplane.com Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page. George ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/10 From: sam hord How are you keeping the elevater cables separated so they do not rub and wear? Sam On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Zenith701801-List Digest Server < zenith701801-list@matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ======================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================= > > Today's complete Zenith701801-List Digest can also be found in either of > the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Zenith701801-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text > editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 10-01-08&Archive=Zenith701801 > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 10-01-08&Archive=Zenith701801 > > > ===================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ===================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith701801-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 01/08/10: 1 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:57 AM - Re: elevator (Keith Ashcraft) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:57:53 AM PST US > From: Keith Ashcraft > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: elevator > > Sam, I have seen and think I have a picture or two, but.... I don't know > how or > where. > > Keith > CH701 -- scratch > > > ________________________________ > From: sam hord > Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:24:49 PM > Subject: Zenith701801-List: elevator > > Has anybody changed the elevator cables to push rods? > > Sam > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:15 PM PST US From: Art Gibeaut Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/10 Zenith uses a bungey on one of the cables attached to the passenger side. I'm at that stage right now, and several of the guys on this list pointed it out to me. A picture is in the instructions. --- On Sun, 1/10/10, sam hord wrote: > From: sam hord > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/10 > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 11:22 AM > How are you keeping the elevater cables > separated so they do not rub and wear? > Sam > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:58 PM, > Zenith701801-List Digest Server > wrote: > > * > > > > ======================= > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > ======================= > > > > Today's complete Zenith701801-List Digest can also be > found in either of the > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the > Digest formatted > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > Hyperlinked Indexes > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain > ASCII version > > of the Zenith701801-List Digest and can be viewed with a > generic text editor > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 10-01-08&Archive=Zenith701801 > > > > > Text Version: > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 10-01-08&Archive=Zenith701801 > > > > > > > ===================== > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > ===================== > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Zenith701801-List > Digest Archive > > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Fri > 01/08/10: 1 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 07:57 AM - Re: elevator (Keith Ashcraft) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 07:57:53 AM PST US > > From: Keith Ashcraft > > Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: elevator > > > > Sam, I have seen and think I have a picture or two, but.... > I don't know how or > > where. > > > > Keith > > CH701 -- scratch > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: sam hord > > Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:24:49 PM > > Subject: Zenith701801-List: elevator > > > > Has anybody changed the elevator cables to push rods? > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========= > > -List" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List > > ========= > > http://forums.matronics.com > > ========= > > le, List Admin. > > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:42 PM PST US From: "Curt Thompson" Subject: Zenith701801-List: Fork tube analysis and prospective stainless steel substitute On my plans built CH701, I have been polishing a few of the parts like the landing gear and front fork. I was wondering if I could replace the front fork tube with stainless steel parts and get a similar look. I would need to make sure that the replacement had the same strength as the original. So, with the help of my son, we did a SolidWorks analysis of a 4130N tube, 2 inch diameter, 21 inches long with a 0.065" wall. The top is solidly anchored and a force is applied horizontally at the bottom. Here is a link of the simulation video that SolidWorks made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8uamuysV_8 The video ends when the fork tube fails. It took a force of 540 lbs. As you can see, the tube bent a lot before it failed. If you make the fork tube stronger you are likely to move the loads elsewhere and it will break somewhere else. One thing comes to mind here, if you bend the front axle and lock up the wheel you are going to see a lot more than 540lbs. There was a picture on this list over a year ago that showed a bent fork tube after what was claimed to be a normal landing. I don't know how common this problem actually is. We substituted the fork tube with T-316L stainless steel in the simulation. It took a wall thickness of 0.250" before we arrived at a similar result. Since that would make the fork tube about four times as heavy, I have decided to stay with the 4130N of the plans. I may go up one notch in thickness of 4130N though. I might also replace the front axle with a solid shaft. On the shaft I have now, I machined bushings and welded them in place. Curt Thompson Redmond, WA, USA ========== -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Fork tube analysis and prospective stainless steel substitute From: JG I once helped re-build a 701 that had hit a fence on take-off. A heavier nose leg had been fitted, causing the firewall to be damaged as well. Replacing the firewall is a MAJOR job........ A new nose leg and prop are much easier and less costly...... Don't know how you can bend a nose leg on a 701, even in a heavy landing scenario. The nose wheel should be way high off the ground at landing AofA, and the weight distribution should be such that you can hold the nose up after the mains take the weight. The vertical CofG of the aircraft is quite high, such that at the AofA at touchdown it effectively moves back and the aircraft nearly balances on the mains at that attitude. If you can't hold the nose up and it comes down hard, then either the horizontal CofG is way forward, or the main gear is canted back somewhat. The 'angle of dangle' of the main gear is often not noticed, but can vary due to wear or improper fitting of those rubber blocks. If the gear is angled back just a bit it puts much more load on the nose wheel. For real STOL use, especially on rough strips, it's best to try to have the weight on the nose wheel to be minimum. Fully loaded to aft CofG, if someone pulls the tail down to the ground, it should just about stay there. The angle of the main gear can be adjusted, often by just reversing those rubber blocks, or if necessary by grinding a slight taper on them with a course sanding disc in an angle grinder. But of course, first must get the CofG of the aircraft correct, by weight and balance measurements. JG www.stolspeed.com On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Curt Thompson wrote: > Here is a link to the previous thread that has pictures of how the fork > tube bent. > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=56639&highlight=weak+701+nose+gear > > > Curt > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Bungee discussion From: dennkrumm@aol.com Sam - I am building an 801 and have questioned my EAA Tech Adviser on a different way to separate the elevator cables (and rudder cables) from ru bbing together. He pointed out how ultra-lights have been avoiding the ru bbing of controls cables since their inception by threading the cables thr ough a piece of high strength, high density plastic tubing. A lot of ultr a cables are complete encased in tubing - thus preventing any wear on the cable itself. He recommend placing the tubing where the cables cross pat hs. The tubing I.D. (inner dia.) should be slightly larger than the cable diameter. There are three ways to anchor the tubing: 1) Where the tubing crosses and creates an "X" pattern, put two cable ties in the middle of the "X", one over the other in their own "X" pattern. This locks the tubes from moving up and down the cable. 2) Build a support bracket at the "X" and attach the center of the "X" on the bracket. And 3) (if your cables are not continuously in contact with each other) Secure the tubing onto the cable to keep it from moving, but use a long enough piece of tubing that when the cables do touch, the tubing is at that location (+ or - a foot or so). You will then get contact with the tubes - not the cables. This sounds like it should work pretty slick and I hope to use it for my 801 when I get to that stage in the building process. My rudder cables will now have a more direct routing to the rudder horns without any sligh t "detours", as is their current path through the fuselage. Hope you find this helps. Dennis Krummel N801DK PS - I plan on using the hydraulic tubing. It is very strong and has good resistance to wear. -----Original Message----- From: sam hord Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 9:22 am Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/1 0 How are you keeping the elevater cables separated so they do not rub and wear? Sam ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:43 PM PST US From: "Chris Blackmore" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Bungee discussion Try corelon ( spelling) truck air brake lines -------Original Message------- From: dennkrumm@aol.com Subject: Zenith701801-List: Bungee discussion Sam - I am building an 801 and have questioned my EAA Tech Adviser on a different way to separate the elevator cables (and rudder cables) from rubbing together. He pointed out how ultra-lights have been avoiding the rubbing of controls cables since their inception by threading the cables through a piece of high strength, high density plastic tubing. A lot of ultra cables are complete encased in tubing - thus preventing any wear on the cable itself. He recommend placing the tubing where the cables cross paths. The tubing I.D. (inner dia.) should be slightly larger than the cable diameter. There are three ways to anchor the tubing: 1) Where the tubing crosse s and creates an "X" pattern, put two cable ties in the middle of the "X", one over the other in their own "X" pattern. This locks the tubes from movin g up and down the cable. 2) Build a support bracket at the "X" and attach the center of the "X" on the bracket. And 3) (if your cables are not continuously in contact with each other) Secure the tubing onto the cab le to keep it from moving, but use a long enough piece of tubing that when t he cables do touch, the tubing is at that location (+ or - a foot or so). Y ou will then get contact with the tubes - not the cables. This sounds like it should work pretty slick and I hope to use it for m y 801 when I get to that stage in the building process. My rudder cables w ill now have a more direct routing to the rudder horns without any slight detours", as is their current path through the fuselage. Hope you find t his helps. Dennis Krummel N801DK PS - I plan on using the hydraulic tubing. It is very strong and has goo d resistance to wear. -----Original Message----- From: sam hord Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 9:22 am Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/08/ 10 How are you keeping the elevater cables separated so they do not rub and wear? Sam ========== ========== ========== ========== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:25 PM PST US From: Art Gibeaut Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Bungee discussion Sounds like a good plan, but do yourself a favor and do nothing until you rig the elevator cables, and then experience what happens as you move the stick left and right. You'll understand at that point. Cables rubbing is a secondary issue. The primary issue (as pointed out by some else prior) is the fact that the cables are not centered on the torque tube and will tighten and loosen as the stick is moved right and left. You need something to take up the slack (bungey) or you will be chasing this forever. I chased it for 3 nites before I finally listened to the guys on this list. You need a device to take up the slack, and rubbing cables will be eliminated when you do that. Just trying to help guys, and share the mistakes I've made so you don't have to make them. Good luck. --- On Mon, 1/11/10, dennkrumm@aol.com wrote: > From: dennkrumm@aol.com > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Bungee discussion > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 6:09 PM > > Sam - I am building an 801 and have > questioned my EAA Tech Adviser on a different way to > separate the elevator cables (and rudder cables) from > rubbing together. He pointed out how ultra-lights have > been avoiding the rubbing of controls cables since their > inception by threading the cables through a piece of high > strength, high density plastic tubing. A lot of ultra > cables are complete encased in tubing - thus preventing any > wear on the cable itself. He recommend placing the > tubing where the cables cross paths. The tubing I.D. > (inner dia.) should be slightly larger than the cable > diameter. > > There are three ways to anchor the > tubing: 1) Where the tubing crosses and creates an > "X" pattern, put two cable ties in the middle of > the "X", one over the other in their own > "X" pattern. This locks the tubes from > moving up and down the cable. 2) Build a support > bracket at the "X" and attach the center of the > "X" on the bracket. And 3) (if your cables > are not continuously in contact with each other) > Secure the tubing onto the cable to keep it from moving, but > use a long enough piece of tubing that when the cables do > touch, the tubing is at that location (+ or - a foot or > so). You will then get contact with the tubes - not > the cables. > > This sounds like it should work pretty slick and I > hope to use it for my 801 when I get to that stage in the > building process. My rudder cables will now have a > more direct routing to the rudder horns without any slight > "detours", as is their current path through the > fuselage. Hope you find this helps. > > > > Dennis Krummel N801DK > > > > PS - I plan on using the hydraulic tubing. It is very > strong and has good resistance to wear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: sam hord > > To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 9:22 am > > Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 1 > Msgs - 01/08/10 > > > > > > > > > > > > How are you keeping the elevater cables separated so they > do not rub and wear? > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith701801-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith701801-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith701801-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith701801-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.