Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:05 PM - Tyres and rims (pipross)
2. 04:23 PM - C of G and a heavy nose... (pipross)
3. 05:08 PM - Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (Ken Arnold)
4. 05:08 PM - Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (ronlee)
5. 05:22 PM - Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (James Sagerser)
6. 05:44 PM - Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (LarryMcFarland)
7. 06:02 PM - Re: Tyres and rims (Les Goldner)
8. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (Les Goldner)
9. 07:52 PM - Better steps for the cowling. (John Marzulli)
10. 07:59 PM - Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (pipross)
11. 08:03 PM - Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (pipross)
12. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (johndread@aol.com)
13. 08:19 PM - Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (pipross)
14. 08:20 PM - Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (pipross)
15. 08:21 PM - Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (pipross)
16. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: C of G and a heavy nose... (JG)
Message 1
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Hi all,
I have the 6 inch Matco rims with the 8 inch tires. I'm contemplating going to
6 inch tires as well, to lower my aerodynamic 'footprint' a little. Who has what
as far as rim/tire combo's are concerned? and for anyone whos downsized their
tyres, has their been any noticeable differences
Thanks
Ross
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282335#282335
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| Subject: | C of G and a heavy nose... |
Hi all,
I brought a 701 with a EA81 engine 6 months ago. I've done about 100 hours in it
so far but I'm still struggling with the weight and balance. When I brought
it, it was forward CG, to the point of being dangerous, when I cut the throttle,
just myself onboard, it would drop like a stone (think helicopter autorotation..)
I thought.. some weight in the tail... 5kg's... and suddenly it had a glide
ratio. I now have 8kg's in the tail (I know it's alot) and it handles well.
Too much more weight in the tail and it gets a bit wobbly, not aft CG, but
too much weight on a long arm. What I'm trying to achieve is being able to hold
my nose off on touchdown, with power off, which is what I can do with other
well balanced aircraft. Whilst I understand that if I put a rotax in I would probably
solve the weight and balance problem, I don't really want to spend the
$$$ involved in that. The EA81 goes well, apart from the weight problem. I have
a warp drive prop. Any comments and suggestions would be useful..
Cheers
Ross
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282338#282338
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
Ross,
I suggest you sell this thing. But, there are still 2 cycle replacement
engines around that are cheap and light weight.
Ken
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "pipross" <pipross@xtra.co.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:21 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: C of G and a heavy nose...
>
> Hi all,
> I brought a 701 with a EA81 engine 6 months ago. I've done about 100 hours
> in it so far but I'm still struggling with the weight and balance. When I
> brought it, it was forward CG, to the point of being dangerous, when I cut
> the throttle, just myself onboard, it would drop like a stone (think
> helicopter autorotation..) I thought.. some weight in the tail... 5kg's...
> and suddenly it had a glide ratio. I now have 8kg's in the tail (I know
> it's alot) and it handles well. Too much more weight in the tail and it
> gets a bit wobbly, not aft CG, but too much weight on a long arm. What I'm
> trying to achieve is being able to hold my nose off on touchdown, with
> power off, which is what I can do with other well balanced aircraft.
> Whilst I understand that if I put a rotax in I would probably solve the
> weight and balance problem, I don't really want to spend the $$$ involved
> in that. The EA81 goes well, apart from the weight problem. I have a warp
> drive prop. Any comments and suggestions w!
> ould be useful..
>
> Cheers
> Ross
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282338#282338
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
It's hard to keep the nose off the ground consistently with slats. The nose either
wants to go up or down with little stick movement. Take the slats off and
put on vortex generators and it will be much easier to flare and keep the nose
wheel off and steady.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282349#282349
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
The trailing edge of the elevator is bent slightly up to compensate for the
lighter designed weight (80HP) of the 701. Bend the trailing edge down
"slightly" and it will make a huge difference on keeping the nose off longer
on landing and give you more authority in back trim on landing approach.
Simple solution. Jim
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 5:21 PM, pipross <pipross@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I brought a 701 with a EA81 engine 6 months ago. I've done about 100 hours
> in it so far but I'm still struggling with the weight and balance. When I
> brought it, it was forward CG, to the point of being dangerous, when I cut
> the throttle, just myself onboard, it would drop like a stone (think
> helicopter autorotation..) I thought.. some weight in the tail... 5kg's...
> and suddenly it had a glide ratio. I now have 8kg's in the tail (I know it's
> alot) and it handles well. Too much more weight in the tail and it gets a
> bit wobbly, not aft CG, but too much weight on a long arm. What I'm trying
> to achieve is being able to hold my nose off on touchdown, with power off,
> which is what I can do with other well balanced aircraft. Whilst I
> understand that if I put a rotax in I would probably solve the weight and
> balance problem, I don't really want to spend the $$$ involved in that. The
> EA81 goes well, apart from the weight problem. I have a warp drive prop. Any
> comments and suggestions w!
> ould be useful..
>
> Cheers
> Ross
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282338#282338
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
Hi Ross,
Not sure of your configuration, but you might put the radiator back
under the belly a ways and move the 18 lbs or so that far to improve
your center of gravity.
I've attached a picture of an installation that does exactly that, tho
he's not using a Subaru, the installation is clearly the same for 601 or
701 with an EA-81.
My site shows the installation of this radiator on my engine page.
See attached image too.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
pipross wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I brought a 701 with a EA81 engine 6 months ago. I've done about 100 hours in
it so far but I'm still struggling with the weight and balance. When I brought
it, it was forward CG, to the point of being dangerous, when I cut the throttle,
just myself onboard, it would drop like a stone (think helicopter autorotation..)
The EA81 goes well, apart from the weight problem.
>
> Cheers
> Ross
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282338#282338
>
>
>
Message 7
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Don't know the answer, but upsizing my tires from 18 to 21" diameter had no
noticeable impact on airspeed.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pipross
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:05 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Tyres and rims
Hi all,
I have the 6 inch Matco rims with the 8 inch tires. I'm contemplating going
to 6 inch tires as well, to lower my aerodynamic 'footprint' a little. Who
has what as far as rim/tire combo's are concerned? and for anyone whos
downsized their tyres, has their been any noticeable differences
Thanks
Ross
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282335#282335
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
This sounds like a bad idea to me. If slats bring the center of lift forward
somewhat taking them off will exacerbate the balance problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ronlee
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:08 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: C of G and a heavy nose...
It's hard to keep the nose off the ground consistently with slats. The nose
either wants to go up or down with little stick movement. Take the slats off
and put on vortex generators and it will be much easier to flare and keep
the nose wheel off and steady.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282349#282349
Message 9
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| Subject: | Better steps for the cowling. |
I finally got around to finishing my ( new style ) cowling.
The current version of the manual is incomplete and incorrect. I used a
combination of advise from Roger at Zenith, the forum and the HBH video.
Here is how I did it:
1) Fit the top and bottom halves together, sliding the top half into the
lip. I then made sure the the seam between the top half and the recessed lip
of the bottom half was OK.
2) Clamped and taped it together.
3) Determined the center of the top half of the cowl and the center of the
airplane. I then extended forwarrd the rivet lines on the side of the
fuselage to use as reference for getting it even.
4) I then determined the angle of the cowl and got it centered and even. I
used the seam lines on the cowl in conjection with some rivet lines on the
fuselage to get it even and centered.
5) Once I had that I then marked where I neeeded to trip the cowling to
clear the gear leg and windshield. I only trimmed the gear leg hole a bit,
the molding supplied a large amount of clearence. I trimmed a small a amount
of the top cowling to clear the windshield and sealing.
6) Once I had the the cowl trimmed I then drilled and clecoed the front four
holes to join the top and bottom halves. I determined my safe area of the
fuselage flange taped the cowling into place and drilled the cowling into
the fuselage flange. I made the holes A4 sized.
7) I removed the cowling. and clecoed the nutplates onto the bottom cowl for
the forward holes. I put the nutplates on the "wrong" side so the barrel was
pointing away from the plane.
8) I got each plate parallel with the lip of the cowl and drilled one hole
with an A3 bit and clecoed. I then drilled the remaining hole.
9) Removed all the nutplates and drilled the center hole out to AN3.
10) Cleaned & deburred the holes
11) I applied a slight countersink to the A3 holes that hold the nutplate
using a hand reamer. Use A3 blind rivets to secure the nutplates. Do not
drill out the holes on the nutplates.
12) I drilled out the holes on the top cowling to AN5
13) Using a flat riveter head I riveted the nutplates to the inside lip of
the bottom half so the barrel pointed into the airplane.
14) I clecoed the nutplates to the fuselage flange where the cowl met and
used a similar technique.
15) At this point I did not install the left and right nutplates where the
top and bottom halves of the cowling connect to the fuselage.
Some photos:
http://marzulliphoto.net/Airplanes/Cowl-Details/10989127_EFxbS/1/768223695_Av4yx
John Marzulli
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/ <http://www.genevievemarzulli.org/>
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/ <http://marzulliphoto.net/>
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ <http://701builder.blogspot.com/>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
Thanks for your replys... I forgot to mention it was built without slats (with
VG's), I'm not a fan of two strokes particularly, I used to fly trikes and was
not comfortable over bush or water hoping my two stroke would keep cycling, the
radiator idea is pretty good, i'll attach a photo showing the current setup
if I can find a side on one
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282379#282379
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
Like this too, when you say bend, are we talking about cable adjustments, or something
a little more agricultural??...
Ross
[quote="lvuman(at)gmail.com"]The trailing edge of the elevator is bent slightly
up to compensate for the lighter designed weight (80HP) of the 701. Bend the
trailing edge down "slightly" and it will make a huge difference on keeping the
nose off longer on landing and give you more authority in back trim on landing
approach. Simple solution. Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282380#282380
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
Hi Ross;
There was a post a year or so ago that was OK'd by the
factory. The problem was that the elevator trim did not have much authori
ty in
one direction. The solution was to bend the rear of the elevator up so it
was
inline with the LE of the elevator. This should also help the hold the
nose off.
John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 1/19/2010 9:04:31 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
pipross@xtra.co.nz writes:
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "pipross" <pipross@xtra.co.nz>
Like this too, when you say bend, are we talking about cable adjustments,
or something a little more agricultural??...
Ross
[quote="lvuman(at)gmail.com"]The trailing edge of the elevator is bent
slightly up to compensate for the lighter designed weight (80HP) of the
701.=EF=BD Bend the trailing edge down "slightly" and it will make a
huge difference
on keeping the nose off longer on landing and give you more authority in
back trim on landing approach.=EF=BD Simple solution.=EF=BD Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282380#282380
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
Some pre painting photos that'll show the layout... Thanks for the elevator info
John..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282384#282384
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/old7013_103.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
and some more....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282385#282385
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/old7011_400.jpg
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
and now
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282386#282386
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/7017_399.jpg
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: C of G and a heavy nose... |
The slats don't bring the center of lift forward. A bit surprising I know,
but tested over and over again, that removing the slats caused no change in
trim.
See the testing and results at www.stolspeed.com
There's a whole new set of tests there, comparing the performance with
slats/no slats.
JG
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Les Goldner
<lgold@quantum-associates.com>wrote:
> lgold@quantum-associates.com>
>
> This sounds like a bad idea to me. If slats bring the center of lift
> forward
> somewhat taking them off will exacerbate the balance problem.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ronlee
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:08 PM
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: C of G and a heavy nose...
>
>
> It's hard to keep the nose off the ground consistently with slats. The nose
> either wants to go up or down with little stick movement. Take the slats
> off
> and put on vortex generators and it will be much easier to flare and keep
> the nose wheel off and steady.
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282349#282349
>
>
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