Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:08 AM - New 701 and 582 (Phil)
2. 08:33 AM - Re: New 701 and 582 (fritz)
3. 08:41 AM - Re: New 701 and 582 (Phil)
4. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: New 701 and 582 (fritz)
5. 01:27 PM - Re: New 701 and 582 (Phil)
6. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: New 701 and 582 (David L. Orr)
7. 07:46 PM - Re: New 701 and 582 (Phil)
Message 1
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Hello all,
I've been haunting the list for a bit. Not a lot of traffic lately, but the archives
are helpful.
I've recently finished my training and gotten my Sport license. I've been thinking
about building a plane for longer than I care to admit (I think I must be
some kind of expert on at least the variety and types of homebuilt aircraft),
but two particular options have stayed at the top of my list for a very long
time: a Pietenpol or a CH701. Obviously, I'm interested in low and slow. In
fact, I'd prefer around a 70mph cruise. I've flown several times in Cubs, and
I very much like how slowly they trundle over the ground, giving one time to
see everything (I'm an aerial sightseer at heart). I've flown in a ppc, and would
probably just get one of those if I could get over the fact that you're flying
a series of air-filled fabric tubes, and there was some way around the ridiculous
setup and takedown process.
Anyway, I flew in my first CH701 about a week ago, and it was a lovely airplane
in every way. I really like most of its features (the shorter and more stable
wing, the metal construction, the wonderful control feel, etc). The only thing
that pulls me toward the Piet is the lower cost and the open cockpit (which
is both nice and a disadvantage at the same time). But I'm under no illusions
as to how long it would take to build a Piet from scratch. So, there's the
cost issue.
Which, finally, brings me to the point of this post. (Just wanted to introduce
myself a bit and give some background.)
I understand the economics of the 912 80hp engine (with it's great TBO) and 4-stroke
niceness. But with the cost of the kit, the cost of even a used lowish-time
912 might be out of my range (if I could find a good one). A low-time 582,
on the other hand, looks good, price-wise, except for that short TBO, and the
2-stroke worries.
I know Heintz designed the 701 for a 582, but I'm thinking that was a lighter (smaller?)
plane. As I've said, I'm not looking for fast cruise performance.
Will the 582 work well on the current kit? Are there concerns? Would I have
to worry more about engine outs?
Thanks for any insights you can offer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306319#306319
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: New 701 and 582 |
I've flown 300 hrs in an earlier 701 with the 582. pros and cons.
But, in making your decision, compare apples with apples---- would you put
the 582 in a Piet?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil" <hopkinsp2@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: New 701 and 582
>
> Hello all,
>
> I've been haunting the list for a bit. Not a lot of traffic lately, but
> the archives are helpful.
>
> I've recently finished my training and gotten my Sport license. I've been
> thinking about building a plane for longer than I care to admit (I think I
> must be some kind of expert on at least the variety and types of homebuilt
> aircraft), but two particular options have stayed at the top of my list
> for a very long time: a Pietenpol or a CH701. Obviously, I'm interested
> in low and slow. In fact, I'd prefer around a 70mph cruise. I've flown
> several times in Cubs, and I very much like how slowly they trundle over
> the ground, giving one time to see everything (I'm an aerial sightseer at
> heart). I've flown in a ppc, and would probably just get one of those if
> I could get over the fact that you're flying a series of air-filled fabric
> tubes, and there was some way around the ridiculous setup and takedown
> process.
>
> Anyway, I flew in my first CH701 about a week ago, and it was a lovely
> airplane in every way. I really like most of its features (the shorter
> and more stable wing, the metal construction, the wonderful control feel,
> etc). The only thing that pulls me toward the Piet is the lower cost and
> the open cockpit (which is both nice and a disadvantage at the same time).
> But I'm under no illusions as to how long it would take to build a Piet
> from scratch. So, there's the cost issue.
>
> Which, finally, brings me to the point of this post. (Just wanted to
> introduce myself a bit and give some background.)
>
> I understand the economics of the 912 80hp engine (with it's great TBO)
> and 4-stroke niceness. But with the cost of the kit, the cost of even a
> used lowish-time 912 might be out of my range (if I could find a good
> one). A low-time 582, on the other hand, looks good, price-wise, except
> for that short TBO, and the 2-stroke worries.
>
> I know Heintz designed the 701 for a 582, but I'm thinking that was a
> lighter (smaller?) plane. As I've said, I'm not looking for fast cruise
> performance. Will the 582 work well on the current kit? Are there
> concerns? Would I have to worry more about engine outs?
>
> Thanks for any insights you can offer.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306319#306319
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: New 701 and 582 |
No, I wouldn't. I'm pretty sure I'd put in a Corvair engine in the Piet (but it's
too heavy for the CH701). I'm not sure what that shows me, though.
You've got a lot of time with yours. What are the pros and cons you mention?
And you say yours is an earlier 701. Would the 582 work on the current 701 the
same as on yours?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306326#306326
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New 701 and 582 |
if you are thinking "Corvair"----- why not Corvair powered Ch 750.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil" <hopkinsp2@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:41 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: New 701 and 582
>
> No, I wouldn't. I'm pretty sure I'd put in a Corvair engine in the Piet
> (but it's too heavy for the CH701). I'm not sure what that shows me,
> though.
>
> You've got a lot of time with yours. What are the pros and cons you
> mention? And you say yours is an earlier 701. Would the 582 work on the
> current 701 the same as on yours?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306326#306326
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New 701 and 582 |
Economics. What I would save on the engine building the 750 with a Corvair, I'd
spend on the kit. It's quite a bit more expensive, and doesn't offer much more
payload. And, like I said, I'm looking for slow, so the faster cruise for
the 750 is actually a drawback for me. But I'll look at it some more.
Still very interested to hear the pros and cons of the 582 on the current 701 kit.
Since you have so many hours on yours, your insight into it would be great!
It's not that I'm wedded to any particular engine. The Corvair conversion is interesting
to me, as it seems to be a good application of auto engines for flying,
and the price is good. If I had my druthers, I'd probably hang an A-65 on
whatever I built. I can do that with the Piet, but, again, the A65 is too heavy
for the 701.
So, if I build the 701, then it seems like my real engine options (without exploring
some less well-tried and supported options that I see some people are doing
but that I don't feel qualified to try) are the 80hp 912 (expensive), the
582 (much better price, but 2-stroke, low TBO and concerns over performance),
or possibly the VW (which I have lots of concerns about).
I've looked at the archives, and searched on the web, but I don't find much info
on this particular topic (582 in current 701).
The Zenith guys are all at Oshkosh (as probably at least some of the list folks
are....sigh....), but I'll call them in a couple of weeks and see what they have
to say. Just thought it would be worth asking here as well.
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306358#306358
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New 701 and 582 |
Phil, a Continental A65,C-75,or a C-85 is not out of the question for the 701.
You can go light and leave off the starter and alternator or go with some light
weight accessories. Here is a Youtube video with an A65 on a 701. I got an e-mail
from the owner of the plane and he cruises at 70 mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJsvDkXrPIo&feature=related
David L. Orr
Building a Zenith 701 with a C85. http://www.eaa430.org/projects/orr/orr.htm
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New 701 and 582 |
Hmmmm, I might could be talked into hand propping. What's the weight of an A65
without those addons? Wikipedia says 170 lbs.
Do you know of anyone else who's built a 701 with an A65 or other Continental?
I see you're building one with a C85. What weight is your engine? I'd like
to talk to that guy in the video.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306403#306403
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