Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:02 AM - Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? (NYTerminat@aol.com)
2. 05:41 AM - Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? (fritz)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? (BobKat)
4. 08:39 AM - Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? (BobKat)
5. 09:12 AM - Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? (MacDonald Doug)
6. 01:02 PM - Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? (Craig Payne)
7. 02:54 PM - Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? (Tommy Walker)
8. 02:55 PM - Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? (kmccune)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? |
You can go down the runway and lift your nose off the ground without taking
off, but if all your wheels come off the ground JUST FLY and don't try to
put it back on the runway.
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 9/28/2010 10:22:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
txpilot@consolidated.net writes:
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "txpilot"
<txpilot@consolidated.net>
I've just completed my 'low-speed' taxi tests and anticipate fixing my
squawks quickly. Now - the next question: should I do high-speed taxi tests
as recommended from the FAA, or just go right to the first flight? Of
course, talking about this airplane, 'high speed' may mean 20-25 mph!
I would like to hear about any experiences of high-speed taxi tests from
any other members.
Thanks,
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314051#314051
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? |
I agree 100%---
Fritz do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
> <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>
> Here's my feeling on high speed taxi and a lot of crow hops.
> I've made the first flight on 6-7 planes and plan to continue my M.O.
> A good landing is the result of a good approach. Crow hops IMHO are about
> the furthest from a stable approach as you can get.
> My method after medium (relative to the airplane) taxi to determine
> braking / steering is to make a full power takeoff, once clear of the
> ground I lower the nose and test all three axis quickly before continuing
> climb, climb to altitude over the airport and conduct slow flight and a
> stall so you know what to expect on landing. The 701 is different from
> any other first flight I've done, I was aware of the steep power off
> attitude so was prepared to REALLY lower the nose if the engine gagged,
> with a little power it was little different from my Pacer at idle.
> Lots of folks use the fast taxi/ crow hop scenario, I think it's an
> accident waiting to happen.
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graeme@cole" <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>
>
>> <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
>>
>> Yes do hi speed taxi tests
>> and if you have the room do some hops of increasing height and duration.
>> if you can get out of ground effect you will be testing the handeling
>> both yours and the aircrafts. while taking off and landing. make sure it
>> isn't dropping a wing or over sensitive or too heavy on the controls.
>> if any of these are felt fix before flight propper. You don't want any
>> nasty surprises.
>> thanks
>> graemecns
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "txpilot" <txpilot@consolidated.net>
>> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:19 PM
>> Subject: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>>
>>
>>> <txpilot@consolidated.net>
>>>
>>> I've just completed my 'low-speed' taxi tests and anticipate fixing my
>>> squawks quickly. Now - the next question: should I do high-speed taxi
>>> tests as recommended from the FAA, or just go right to the first flight?
>>> Of course, talking about this airplane, 'high speed' may mean 20-25 mph!
>>>
>>> I would like to hear about any experiences of high-speed taxi tests from
>>> any other members.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Dan Ginty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314051#314051
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? |
The bottom line is that its not advisable to do much in the way of crow hops
and high speed taxis. I've heard on many websites that there are a lot of
airplanes wrecked doing the high speed taxi/crow hop thing.
Yes, SPEED is your friend! Forget about the stall speed 28mph nonsense!
(Sure, but with the nose pointing upwards under power like an ICBM!) Fly
it like a 150 with lots of added drag till you are used to it! John has
some great advice here. There's an excellent discourse on first flight by
the fellow from Australia on his website. The VG fellow. Can't recall it
right now, but someone else might. Great advice there, too. As John B
said - flies like a pacer IF you leave a little power on! Without a bit
of power until you get used to it, it has the glide path of a falling brick!
Keep a little power on right down to the ground till you get used to landing
it. Don't get too slow and flare tool high like I did on the first flight
unless you enjoy feeling the 'clunk' of a hard landing and risk of gear
damage! I wish I'd have known about this web site and the great advice
here before my first flight!
After 100+ hours in my plane I still prefer to carry a bit of power right to
the ground! There's lots of drag and it'll develop a really high rate of
descent if you let it. Flare too high and too slow and it'll bite you!
It's an easy and absolutely fun plane to fly but there IS a bit of an
important learning curve on landing! Keep a bit of power on and be ready to
add a bit more. Power and adequate landing speed is your friend! A good
landing is the product of a good approach.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "fritz" <klondike@megalink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>
> I agree 100%---
> Fritz do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>
>
>> <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>>
>> Here's my feeling on high speed taxi and a lot of crow hops.
>> I've made the first flight on 6-7 planes and plan to continue my M.O.
>> A good landing is the result of a good approach. Crow hops IMHO are about
>> the furthest from a stable approach as you can get.
>> My method after medium (relative to the airplane) taxi to determine
>> braking / steering is to make a full power takeoff, once clear of the
>> ground I lower the nose and test all three axis quickly before continuing
>> climb, climb to altitude over the airport and conduct slow flight and a
>> stall so you know what to expect on landing. The 701 is different from
>> any other first flight I've done, I was aware of the steep power off
>> attitude so was prepared to REALLY lower the nose if the engine gagged,
>> with a little power it was little different from my Pacer at idle.
>> Lots of folks use the fast taxi/ crow hop scenario, I think it's an
>> accident waiting to happen.
>>
>> John
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Graeme@cole" <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
>> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>>
>>
>>> <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
>>>
>>> Yes do hi speed taxi tests
>>> and if you have the room do some hops of increasing height and duration.
>>> if you can get out of ground effect you will be testing the handeling
>>> both yours and the aircrafts. while taking off and landing. make sure
>>> it isn't dropping a wing or over sensitive or too heavy on the controls.
>>> if any of these are felt fix before flight propper. You don't want any
>>> nasty surprises.
>>> thanks
>>> graemecns
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "txpilot" <txpilot@consolidated.net>
>>> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:19 PM
>>> Subject: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>>>
>>>
>>>> <txpilot@consolidated.net>
>>>>
>>>> I've just completed my 'low-speed' taxi tests and anticipate fixing my
>>>> squawks quickly. Now - the next question: should I do high-speed taxi
>>>> tests as recommended from the FAA, or just go right to the first
>>>> flight? Of course, talking about this airplane, 'high speed' may mean
>>>> 20-25 mph!
>>>>
>>>> I would like to hear about any experiences of high-speed taxi tests
>>>> from any other members.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Dan Ginty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314051#314051
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? |
This is the website. JG in Australia. Good advice on this website about
flying, landing, testing, etc. In a separate e-mail he told me to carry
around 3000 RPM right to the ground with the Rotax 912 and stock airplane.
Still amazes me how fast it comes down and what nice landings it makes even
at 3000 RPM. Plenty of time to land much slower once you get the feel of
it.
The fellow from California at the 701 STOL Seminar at Oshkosh in 09 said it
was around 100 hours before he really got comfortable with the plane,
especially landing it very slow and STOL!
Even if you come in way too fast, just hold it off with barely enough nose
high to keep from climbing/ballooning and maintain directional control with
rudder and it'll land itself and gently roll to a stop. Choose no wind
or light wind straight down the runway conditions for first flight to
eliminate that variable! Once I flew it to the runway at 50 - 60 mph just
to see how it would handle, and the landing was still a no brainer, a
greaser in fact! FAR BETTER too fast than too slow.
I was told by a factory pilot at Oshkosh to fly the approach very slow like
my VG'd Kitfox I had at the time, and that is true once you are comfortable
with the plane, but for the first flight if you've never flown one before, I
think that's bad advice. Come in faster with much more control till you
get used to it. Like the California pilot said, once you get the hang of
it it's an extremely safe, almost unstallable idiot proof airplane! Just
a few quirks to iron out and before you push the envelope.
Sorry I got off the topic of high speed taxi and crow hops....But if you do
those, be prepared and have a game plan in your mind for landing it.
http://stolspeed.com/
--------------------------------------------------
From: "BobKat" <bobkat@btinet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>
> The bottom line is that its not advisable to do much in the way of crow
> hops and high speed taxis. I've heard on many websites that there are a
> lot of airplanes wrecked doing the high speed taxi/crow hop thing.
> Yes, SPEED is your friend! Forget about the stall speed 28mph nonsense!
> (Sure, but with the nose pointing upwards under power like an ICBM!) Fly
> it like a 150 with lots of added drag till you are used to it! John has
> some great advice here. There's an excellent discourse on first flight by
> the fellow from Australia on his website. The VG fellow. Can't recall it
> right now, but someone else might. Great advice there, too. As John B
> said - flies like a pacer IF you leave a little power on! Without a bit
> of power until you get used to it, it has the glide path of a falling
> brick!
> Keep a little power on right down to the ground till you get used to
> landing it. Don't get too slow and flare tool high like I did on the
> first flight unless you enjoy feeling the 'clunk' of a hard landing and
> risk of gear damage! I wish I'd have known about this web site and the
> great advice here before my first flight!
> After 100+ hours in my plane I still prefer to carry a bit of power right
> to the ground! There's lots of drag and it'll develop a really high
> rate of descent if you let it. Flare too high and too slow and it'll bite
> you! It's an easy and absolutely fun plane to fly but there IS a bit of an
> important learning curve on landing! Keep a bit of power on and be ready
> to add a bit more. Power and adequate landing speed is your friend! A
> good landing is the product of a good approach.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "fritz" <klondike@megalink.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:33 AM
> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>
>>
>> I agree 100%---
>> Fritz do not archive
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>>
>>
>>> <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>>>
>>> Here's my feeling on high speed taxi and a lot of crow hops.
>>> I've made the first flight on 6-7 planes and plan to continue my M.O.
>>> A good landing is the result of a good approach. Crow hops IMHO are
>>> about the furthest from a stable approach as you can get.
>>> My method after medium (relative to the airplane) taxi to determine
>>> braking / steering is to make a full power takeoff, once clear of the
>>> ground I lower the nose and test all three axis quickly before
>>> continuing climb, climb to altitude over the airport and conduct slow
>>> flight and a stall so you know what to expect on landing. The 701 is
>>> different from any other first flight I've done, I was aware of the
>>> steep power off attitude so was prepared to REALLY lower the nose if the
>>> engine gagged, with a little power it was little different from my Pacer
>>> at idle.
>>> Lots of folks use the fast taxi/ crow hop scenario, I think it's an
>>> accident waiting to happen.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Graeme@cole" <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
>>> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>>>
>>>
>>>> <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
>>>>
>>>> Yes do hi speed taxi tests
>>>> and if you have the room do some hops of increasing height and
>>>> duration. if you can get out of ground effect you will be testing the
>>>> handeling
>>>> both yours and the aircrafts. while taking off and landing. make sure
>>>> it isn't dropping a wing or over sensitive or too heavy on the
>>>> controls.
>>>> if any of these are felt fix before flight propper. You don't want any
>>>> nasty surprises.
>>>> thanks
>>>> graemecns
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "txpilot" <txpilot@consolidated.net>
>>>> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:19 PM
>>>> Subject: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> <txpilot@consolidated.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've just completed my 'low-speed' taxi tests and anticipate fixing my
>>>>> squawks quickly. Now - the next question: should I do high-speed
>>>>> taxi tests as recommended from the FAA, or just go right to the first
>>>>> flight? Of course, talking about this airplane, 'high speed' may mean
>>>>> 20-25 mph!
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to hear about any experiences of high-speed taxi tests
>>>>> from any other members.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan Ginty
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314051#314051
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? |
I did some high speed taxi tests on my CH-701. I won't say how fast I got up too
becasue it is not an advisible thing to do. I was surprised that the plane
did not want to fly. It had no tendancy to lift off at all. I found that the
flapperons were active and I had great direction control with the nose wheel
steering BUT...
If things had gone wrong, the plane would have ballooned to about 100 feet and
left me sitting there stunned. The 701 will not normally fly unless the nose
gear comes up first. However, if a gust of wind had caught me the wrong way,
my high speed run could have been disasterous.
I was fortunate enough to get a 701 checkout from Roger in the factory plane.
Wow, what an awesome little aircraft. He said, and I agree, that I should be
able to handle my plane with no problems. That would not have been the case without
the checkride. The few tricks he showed me were well worth the trip to
Mexico.
Now all I need is my CofA to arrive and I can go fly mine.
Please keep in mind, the 701 is not an RV. High speed taxi tests are very dangerous
when you are taxiing at about your stall speed.
Fly safe
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 from Scratch
Waiting on Canadian paperwork
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
--- On Tue, 9/28/10, txpilot <txpilot@consolidated.net> wrote:
> From: txpilot <txpilot@consolidated.net>
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
> To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
> Received: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 9:19 PM
> --> Zenith701801-List message
> posted by: "txpilot" <txpilot@consolidated.net>
>
> I've just completed my 'low-speed' taxi tests and
> anticipate fixing my squawks quickly. Now - the next
> question: should I do high-speed taxi tests as
> recommended from the FAA, or just go right to the first
> flight? Of course, talking about this airplane, 'high
> speed' may mean 20-25 mph!
>
> I would like to hear about any experiences of high-speed
> taxi tests from any other members.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan Ginty
Message 6
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| Subject: | High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? |
On the flaps the advice from Michael Heintz was to not even mess with them
for the first 50 hours.
-- Craig
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? |
Hi,
We built two 701s and did "Hi" speed taxi testing. My building partner was better
than I. I am going to include a link at the end of this email where you can
see the actual "Hi" speed testing. The goal was to taxi fast enough to get
elevator authority and raise the nose wheel off the ground, then see how far
you can taxi on the two main tires using the rudder. This was a lot of fun and
helped with landing the airplane on the first flight. My building partner was
able to taxi almost the length of our 2500 ft runway with the nose wheel off
the ground.
Good Luck!!!
Tommy Walker in Alabama
There are several more videos here of taxi tests
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMcfbEuTiM
--------
Tommy Walker
N8701 - Anniston, AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314160#314160
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea? |
Sorry I just had to quote you and remove the do not arch... this is good stuff,
I want to be able eread it when its time!
Kevin
[quote="bobkat"]This is the website. JG in Australia. Good advice on this website
about
flying, landing, testing, etc. In a separate e-mail he told me to carry
around 3000 RPM right to the ground with the Rotax 912 and stock airplane.
Still amazes me how fast it comes down and what nice landings it makes even
at 3000 RPM. Plenty of time to land much slower once you get the feel of
it.
The fellow from California at the 701 STOL Seminar at Oshkosh in 09 said it
was around 100 hours before he really got comfortable with the plane,
especially landing it very slow and STOL!
Even if you come in way too fast, just hold it off with barely enough nose
high to keep from climbing/ballooning and maintain directional control with
rudder and it'll land itself and gently roll to a stop. Choose no wind
or light wind straight down the runway conditions for first flight to
eliminate that variable! Once I flew it to the runway at 50 - 60 mph just
to see how it would handle, and the landing was still a no brainer, a
greaser in fact! FAR BETTER too fast than too slow.
I was told by a factory pilot at Oshkosh to fly the approach very slow like
my VG'd Kitfox I had at the time, and that is true once you are comfortable
with the plane, but for the first flight if you've never flown one before, I
think that's bad advice. Come in faster with much more control till you
get used to it. Like the California pilot said, once you get the hang of
it it's an extremely safe, almost unstallable idiot proof airplane! Just
a few quirks to iron out and before you push the envelope.
Sorry I got off the topic of high speed taxi and crow hops....But if you do
those, be prepared and have a game plan in your mind for landing it.
http://stolspeed.com/
--------------------------------------------------
From: "BobKat"
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>
>
> The bottom line is that its not advisable to do much in the way of crow
> hops and high speed taxis. I've heard on many websites that there are a
> lot of airplanes wrecked doing the high speed taxi/crow hop thing.
> Yes, SPEED is your friend! Forget about the stall speed 28mph nonsense!
> (Sure, but with the nose pointing upwards under power like an ICBM!) Fly
> it like a 150 with lots of added drag till you are used to it! John has
> some great advice here. There's an excellent discourse on first flight by
> the fellow from Australia on his website. The VG fellow. Can't recall it
> right now, but someone else might. Great advice there, too. As John B
> said - flies like a pacer IF you leave a little power on! Without a bit
> of power until you get used to it, it has the glide path of a falling
> brick!
> Keep a little power on right down to the ground till you get used to
> landing it. Don't get too slow and flare tool high like I did on the
> first flight unless you enjoy feeling the 'clunk' of a hard landing and
> risk of gear damage! I wish I'd have known about this web site and the
> great advice here before my first flight!
> After 100+ hours in my plane I still prefer to carry a bit of power right
> to the ground! There's lots of drag and it'll develop a really high
> rate of descent if you let it. Flare too high and too slow and it'll bite
> you! It's an easy and absolutely fun plane to fly but there IS a bit of an
> important learning curve on landing! Keep a bit of power on and be ready
> to add a bit more. Power and adequate landing speed is your friend! A
> good landing is the product of a good approach.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "fritz"
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:33 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: High speed taxi tests: good or bad idea?
>
> >
> >
> > I agree 100%---
> > Fritz
> > ---
--------
Always do what you are afraid to do.
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)
"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009
"Life is a good deal...it's worth it"
Dorothy McCune
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314161#314161
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