Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:56 AM - Float Update (BILL Wilcox)
2. 10:36 AM - Tornado @ SNF (Craig Payne)
3. 11:41 AM - Re: Float Update (John Swartout)
4. 01:27 PM - Re: Tornado @ SNF (John Marzulli)
5. 02:05 PM - Re: Tornado @ SNF (MacDonald Doug)
Message 1
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John
I now have 3 years of float flying. I have changed the front attach points and
the angle of incidence every year. The front attach points get stronger and
the angle of incidence keeps getting smaller. Because of changes in my life I
will probably not be going on floats this year. I retired and sold my home and
am moving. I will no longer have the hanger to hang the plane and still have
changes I wish to make. I am in AZ so I do not have access to my notes so
what I am writing about is from memory.
I ended up re-making the front attach points again last year. I took two pieces
of angle iron and bolted them under the lower engine mounts. I welded a pipe
to the lower sections of angle iron. I inserted a short section solid rod
in each end. This created a stable and strong front mount. This is my third
and final try at developing the front float attachment. The front strut attaches
to the solid part of the pipe.
I attached the struts to the floats the way Full Lotus recommended. They are attached
to the center of three longitudinal tubes in the top of the float. The
three tubes do flex both when the plane is in the air and when it is on the
water. It is noticeable but has not been a problem.
I did not have any direction on the angle of the struts so my front and rear struts
are nearly vertical with a diagonal strut for stiffening. This set up has
resulted in no issues I have noticed.
I still have not got the angle of incidence correct yet. I first installed it
with 6 or 7 degrees of angle of incidence. The plane was slow in flight creating
overheating problems which were solved by opening up more of the lower cowl
to let the air out. The stall speed was significantly higher than on wheels.
Every time I put it on floats I lower the angel and the plane gets faster and
stalls slower. Even with the problems it is quite a performer on Full Lotus
floats.
The flat bottom of the full lotus floats makes them a great performer but without
a keel you cannot do step turns. You can change the direction you are pointed
but you are still traveling in the same direction. It does do plow turns
nicely although I need to keep the water rudder down.
Bill
N801BW
Time: 10:17:12 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Float Update?
From: John Swartout <jgswartout@gmail.com>
Dear Bill,
You have some more float time on your Full Lotus floats now, and I have a
few questions. I've got my new 10 ft. horizontal tail about done, and so
I'm back to looking at the firewall/cabin area to make sure there will be a
good strut attach arrangement before I hang the engine for (hopefully) the
last time.
Regarding the way the struts are attached to the floats, it looks like you
attached the struts at the center stiffener tube. The CZAW plans show the
Zenair floats cantilevered outboard of the strut fittings, with the float
centers spaced 2.00m apart. Did you keep that same spacing between floats?,
which would either splay the angle of the struts to the fuselage centerline,
or require longer struts. Or did you keep the strut lengths and angles the
same, thus moving the floats closer together? (I know you initially set the
reference line/float top angle at around 7 degrees, which would lengthen the
forward struts about 4", all else being equal.)
What is the diameter of the stiffener tubes? I couldn't find it on the Full
Lotus website, and don't know if it's greater than the diameter of the tubes
in the 1450 or 1650 floats. A guy who has mounted over 40 airplanes on
floats, including some Full Lotus installations, told me that these bigger
planes on longer Full Lotus floats should really use an "M" strut pattern
rather than an "N" pattern, to get the forward strut farther forward and the
aft strut farther aft on the float, minimizing the unsupported fore- and aft
sections of the floats and thereby minimizing flexing of the stiffener
tubes. There is a picture of a Murphy Rebel using this arrangement at
www.lightsportaircraft.ca/murphy-rebel-pilotreport.html. Have you found a
lack of stiffness in the floats to be a problem using the "N" pattern?
Finally, have you found a satisfactory fix for the forward top strut
attachment issue?
Thanks.
John
Message 2
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Storm Batters Sun 'n Fun Fly-In; 70 Trapped in Collapsed Building
Email this article |Print this article
March 31, 2011
by Scott Simmons
Webmaster
A sudden storm took visitors to the Sun 'n Fun Fly-In by surprise Thursday
morning, when an unexpected tornado did millions of dollars worth of damage.
The roof of a youth activity center on the Sun 'n Fun campus has collapsed;
early reports indicate as many as 70 people may be trapped inside, and
rescue efforts are currently underway. AVweb staffers are currently working
to ascertain the nature and extent of the devastation.
-- Craig
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Float Update |
Dear Bill,
Thanks a million for the update. After dozens of hours of analysis and
several changes of mind, I'm moving in a similar direction with the front
strut mounts. Talked to Jeff Holomis a couple days ago about mounting
options, and he suggested using the main spring gear instead of rear- and
diagonal struts and cross wires. Although that comes with a significant
weight penalty (25 lbs, probably) it's fast, easy, rock solid, and if I
don't like it it's a simple matter to make some more struts once I get
all the angles right. I wasn't planning for more than about 2300 lb gross
on floats, so I guess I can make it 2325 for a while if I need to.
I hope the changes you're experiencing are all good ones. I don't believe
I'd trade Prince William Sound for Arizona, given the choice, but
life doesn't always go according to plan.
John
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:30 AM, BILL Wilcox <keystone@gci.net> wrote:
>
> John
> I now have 3 years of float flying. I have changed the front attach poin
ts
> and the angle of incidence every year. The front attach points get stron
ger
> and the angle of incidence keeps getting smaller. Because of changes in
my
> life I will probably not be going on floats this year. I retired and sol
d
> my home and am moving. I will no longer have the hanger to hang the plan
e
> and still have changes I wish to make. I am in AZ so I do not have acces
s
> to my notes so what I am writing about is from memory.
> I ended up re-making the front attach points again last year. I took two
> pieces of angle iron and bolted them under the lower engine mounts. I
> welded a =BE=94 pipe to the lower sections of angle iron. I inserted a s
hort
> section solid rod in each end. This created a stable and strong front
> mount. This is my third and final try at developing the front float
> attachment. The front strut attaches to the solid part of the pipe.
> I attached the struts to the floats the way Full Lotus recommended. They
> are attached to the center of three longitudinal tubes in the top of the
> float. The three tubes do flex both when the plane is in the air and whe
n
> it is on the water. It is noticeable but has not been a problem.
> I did not have any direction on the angle of the struts so my front and
> rear struts are nearly vertical with a diagonal strut for stiffening. Th
is
> set up has resulted in no issues I have noticed.
> I still have not got the angle of incidence correct yet. I first install
ed
> it with 6 or 7 degrees of angle of incidence. The plane was slow in flig
ht
> creating overheating problems which were solved by opening up more of the
> lower cowl to let the air out. The stall speed was significantly higher
> than on wheels. Every time I put it on floats I lower the angel and the
> plane gets faster and stalls slower. Even with the problems it is quite
a
> performer on Full Lotus floats.
> The flat bottom of the full lotus floats makes them a great performer but
> without a keel you cannot do step turns. You can change the direction yo
u
> are pointed but you are still traveling in the same direction. It does d
o
> plow turns nicely although I need to keep the water rudder down.
> Bill
> N801BW
>
>
> Time: 10:17:12 AM PST US
> Subject: Zenith701801-List: Float Update?
> From: John Swartout <jgswartout@gmail.com>
>
> Dear Bill,
>
> You have some more float time on your Full Lotus floats now, and I have a
> few questions. I've got my new 10 ft. horizontal tail about done, and so
> I'm back to looking at the firewall/cabin area to make sure there will be
a
> good strut attach arrangement before I hang the engine for (hopefully) th
e
> last time.
>
> Regarding the way the struts are attached to the floats, it looks like yo
u
> attached the struts at the center stiffener tube. The CZAW plans show th
e
> Zenair floats cantilevered outboard of the strut fittings, with the float
> centers spaced 2.00m apart. Did you keep that same spacing between
> floats?,
> which would either splay the angle of the struts to the fuselage
> centerline,
> or require longer struts. Or did you keep the strut lengths and angles t
he
> same, thus moving the floats closer together? (I know you initially set
> the
> reference line/float top angle at around 7 degrees, which would lengthen
> the
> forward struts about 4", all else being equal.)
>
> What is the diameter of the stiffener tubes? I couldn't find it on the
> Full
> Lotus website, and don't know if it's greater than the diameter of the
> tubes
> in the 1450 or 1650 floats. A guy who has mounted over 40 airplanes on
> floats, including some Full Lotus installations, told me that these bigge
r
> planes on longer Full Lotus floats should really use an "M" strut pattern
> rather than an "N" pattern, to get the forward strut farther forward and
> the
> aft strut farther aft on the float, minimizing the unsupported fore- and
> aft
> sections of the floats and thereby minimizing flexing of the stiffener
> tubes. There is a picture of a Murphy Rebel using this arrangement at
> www.lightsportaircraft.ca/murphy-rebel-pilotreport.html. Have you found
> a
> lack of stiffness in the floats to be a problem using the "N" pattern?
>
> Finally, have you found a satisfactory fix for the forward top strut
> attachment issue?
>
> Thanks.
>
> John
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tornado @ SNF |
I think every picture I have seen so far has a 701/750 in it.
Looks like the Zenith 7560 demonstrator may have been destroyed/heavily
damaged..
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>wrote:
> Storm Batters Sun 'n Fun Fly-In; 70 Trapped in Collapsed Building
>
>
> Email this article |Print this article
>
> March 31, 2011
>
>
> by Scott Simmons
>
> Webmaster
>
>
> A sudden storm took visitors to the Sun 'n Fun Fly-In by surprise Thursday
> morning, when an unexpected tornado did millions of dollars worth of damage.
> The roof of a youth activity center on the Sun 'n Fun campus has collapsed;
> early reports indicate as many as 70 people may be trapped inside, and
> rescue efforts are currently underway. AVweb staffers are currently working
> to ascertain the nature and extent of the devastation.
>
> * *
>
> -- Craig
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tornado @ SNF |
I think that is the AMD demonstrator 750.- The Zenith 750 had orange stri
pes down the slats the last time I saw it.
-
Doug MacDonald
701 driver
NW Ontario, Canada
-
Do Not Archive
--- On Thu, 3/31/11, John Marzulli <john.marzulli@gmail.com> wrote:
From: John Marzulli <john.marzulli@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Tornado @ SNF
Received: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 3:20 PM
I think every picture I have seen so far has a 701/750 in it.
-
Looks like the Zenith 7560 demonstrator may have been destroyed/heavily dam
aged..
-
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrot
e:
Storm Batters Sun 'n Fun Fly-In; 70 Trapped in Collapsed Building ---
---------
Email this article |Print this article
March 31, 2011
-
by --------- Scott Simmons
Webmaster
---------------
-
A sudden storm took visitors to the Sun 'n Fun Fly-In by surprise Thursday
morning, when an unexpected tornado did millions of dollars worth of damage
. The roof of a youth activity center on the Sun 'n Fun campus has collapse
d; early reports indicate as many as 70 people may be trapped inside, and r
escue efforts are currently underway. AVweb staffers are currently working
to ascertain the nature and extent of the devastation.
-
-- Craig
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