Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - Elevator Skin, Not as expected (Perry Delano)
2. 05:18 AM - Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected (MacDonald Doug)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected (John Marzulli)
4. 06:29 AM - Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected (Perry Delano)
5. 02:55 PM - Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected (Graeme Cole Tool Centre)
6. 08:12 PM - Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected (JohnDRead@aol.com)
7. 11:39 PM - Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected (Perry Delano)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Elevator Skin, Not as expected |
Hi All,
I thought being a shade tree mechanic and a mechanical engineer would serve
me well in building a plane, I'm having my doubts. Please see attached
photos. The elevator (kit Pieces) should be new version with the bend on the
bottom skin (downward). As you can see the bent flange protrudes well past
the top skin and if I were to put in the solid rivets along the trailing
edge I would have to pull the skins together as they meet at point top and
bottom planes intersecting rather than being parallel to each other. As you
can see in one photo the bend line is out from under the top section of the
skin. Thought I measured 3X and cut...well drilled a lot of holes, anyway
dazed and confused. Is this elevator scrap.
Sent same basic email to Caleb at Zenith.
Regards,
Perry
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected |
Perry, I don't remember the exact mistake I made with my first elevator as
it was about=C2-six years ago, but whatever it was, you've duplicated it
perfectly.=C2- I scrapped my entire elevator but didn't need too.=C2- Y
ou will likely need a new skin though and then match drill the holes moved
by=C2-20mm or so.=C2- In the assembly manual there is about half a chap
ter about finding the center point on the nose of the end ribs.=C2-=C2-
The steps=C2-kind of seem redundant and should be pretty self explanatory
but belive it or not, each of those steps is fairly critical to follow or
you end up exactly as you have.=0A=C2-=0AAnother point to consider is the
little duck tail bend in the elevator was meant to help the trim with a li
ght two stroke on the nose.=C2- With a 912 Rotax or any other engine whic
h is heavier, the duck tail actually causes insuficient trim and most build
ers end up bending it back to neutral.=C2- It would be easier to eliminat
e the ducktail bend while building the elevator instead of on an assembled
and painted aircraft.=0A=C2-=0AHope this information helps.=0A=C2-=0ADo
ug M=0ACH-701 from scratch=0ANW Ontario, Canada=0A =0A=0A__________________
______________=0A From: Perry Delano <pdelano@telus.net>=0ATo: zenith701801
-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 1:37:56 AM=0ASubject:
Zenith701801-List: Elevator Skin, Not as expected=0A =0A=0AHi All, =0A=C2
-=0AI thought being a shade tree mechanic and a mechanical engineer would
serve me well in building a plane, I=99m having my doubts. Please se
e attached photos. The elevator (kit Pieces) should be new version with the
bend on the bottom skin (downward). As you can see the bent flange protrud
es well past the top skin and if I were to put in the solid rivets along th
e trailing edge I would have to pull the skins together as they meet at poi
nt top and bottom planes intersecting rather than being parallel to each ot
her. As you can see in one photo the bend line is out from under the top se
ction of the skin. =C2- Thought I measured 3X and cut..well dril
led a lot of holes, anyway dazed and confused. Is this elevator scrap.=0A
=C2-=0ASent same basic email to Caleb at Zenith.=0A=C2-=0ARegards,=0A
=C2-=0APerry
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected |
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Elevator Skin, Not as expected |
Hi Doug,
Thanks for your speedy reply. I was pretty disappointed when I finally
clued in last night that things had gone very wrong and was thinking I
better think about a different hobby and was hoping someone would send
something this morning to help me soldier on. I=99d already
replaced a rear rib on the elevator because I mucked it up after
noticing too much of a gap between it and the skin after riveting.
I know you are right about the new skin, I just did not want to believe
it.
Regards,
Perry
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MacDonald Doug
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Elevator Skin, Not as expected
Perry, I don't remember the exact mistake I made with my first elevator
as it was about six years ago, but whatever it was, you've duplicated it
perfectly. I scrapped my entire elevator but didn't need too. You will
likely need a new skin though and then match drill the holes moved by
20mm or so. In the assembly manual there is about half a chapter about
finding the center point on the nose of the end ribs. The steps kind of
seem redundant and should be pretty self explanatory but belive it or
not, each of those steps is fairly critical to follow or you end up
exactly as you have.
Another point to consider is the little duck tail bend in the elevator
was meant to help the trim with a light two stroke on the nose. With a
912 Rotax or any other engine which is heavier, the duck tail actually
causes insuficient trim and most builders end up bending it back to
neutral. It would be easier to eliminate the ducktail bend while
building the elevator instead of on an assembled and painted aircraft.
Hope this information helps.
Doug M
CH-701 from scratch
NW Ontario, Canada
From: Perry Delano <pdelano@telus.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 1:37:56 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Elevator Skin, Not as expected
Hi All,
I thought being a shade tree mechanic and a mechanical engineer would
serve me well in building a plane, I=99m having my doubts. Please
see attached photos. The elevator (kit Pieces) should be new version
with the bend on the bottom skin (downward). As you can see the bent
flange protrudes well past the top skin and if I were to put in the
solid rivets along the trailing edge I would have to pull the skins
together as they meet at point top and bottom planes intersecting rather
than being parallel to each other. As you can see in one photo the bend
line is out from under the top section of the skin. Thought I measured
3X and cut..well drilled a lot of holes, anyway dazed and
confused. Is this elevator scrap.
Sent same basic email to Caleb at Zenith.
Regards,
Perry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected |
Perry It is a bit hard to see from pictures but jpg 2 seems to indicate
the top skin is protruding further out than the bottom skin.
which indicates the top skin should have been back further towards the
elevator frame.
When you had it test fitted on the bench with ratchet tie downs holding
the skin in place as per instructions you should have been able to get
the skin trailing edge to match and clamp in position.
Unless you want to start again you will probably have to put a patch the
length of the elevator in the bottom trailing edge with the bend in it
(cut the bend out of old skin) looks like it needs to be approx 20mm
longer to intersect correctly.
I wouldnt rely 100% on all measurements in plans some things may need
to be fixed as you build make sure every thing is where it is surposed
to be when you test fit.
Graemecns
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry Delano
To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 4:37 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Elevator Skin, Not as expected
Hi All,
I thought being a shade tree mechanic and a mechanical engineer would
serve me well in building a plane, I'm having my doubts. Please see
attached photos. The elevator (kit Pieces) should be new version with
the bend on the bottom skin (downward). As you can see the bent flange
protrudes well past the top skin and if I were to put in the solid
rivets along the trailing edge I would have to pull the skins together
as they meet at point top and bottom planes intersecting rather than
being parallel to each other. As you can see in one photo the bend line
is out from under the top section of the skin. Thought I measured 3X
and cut...well drilled a lot of holes, anyway dazed and confused. Is
this elevator scrap.
Sent same basic email to Caleb at Zenith.
Regards,
Perry
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin, Not as expected |
Hi Perry,
With the amount of overlap showing I think the skin is on the
ribs upside down. You should be able to reverse it and with luck drill new
holes in the ribs. The spar holes will be a mile off though so perhaps a
new skin is the way to go.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
Message 7
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| Subject: | Elevator Skin, Not as expected |
Hi John,
Thanks for the feedback. It appears a new skin or a patch strip are both an
option. Although I'm building from plans that called for the bent edge up on
the top skin. The newer kit parts come with bent flange down on the bottom
skin. The latter added some complexity to the issue which I thought I had
sorted out pre drilling anything. Low and Behold, Not. In any case I will
move ahead with one or the other. I'll try the patch as others have
suggested and feedback from zenith seems to support. If it looks suspect,
I'll go for a new skin.
Regards,
Perry
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JohnDRead@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Elevator Skin, Not as expected
Hi Perry,
With the amount of overlap showing I think the skin is on the
ribs upside down. You should be able to reverse it and with luck drill new
holes in the ribs. The spar holes will be a mile off though so perhaps a new
skin is the way to go.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
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