---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/26/12: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 10:03 AM - Contributions Down By 23%... (Matt Dralle) 1. 12:48 AM - Re: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube (maxjohansson@elisanet.fi) 2. 06:54 AM - Re: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube (n801bh@netzero.com) 3. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube (Stripling Cliff & Carolyn) 4. 08:47 AM - Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube (striplic) 5. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube (maxjohansson@elisanet.fi) 6. 06:57 PM - Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 11/25/12 (Dougnoble@aol.com) 7. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 11/25/12 (JohnDRead@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:46 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith701801-List: Contributions Down By 23%... Dear Listers, As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expenses paid. I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet connection is a commercial-grade, dual T1 connection with public address space. I also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter of hours. All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Site, you can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:33 AM PST US From: maxjohansson@elisanet.fi Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube Re Torque tube There is nothing wrong per se with the 701 control torque tube but the whole setup is a kludge resulting in one side biased flaperon control and also in simultaneously sloppy and too rigid elevator control cables. Using a inner coaxial tube in order to separate the two control inputs is also for me the best thing I have done in my 701 so far in order to make flying more enjoyable and precise. By selecting a slightly thicker wall for the inner tube It is easy to show using simple rotational inertia calculations that the strenght of the inner tube is at least equal to the outer tube. No fancy calculations is needed. Re Snorkel fuel caps and fuel spillage I have not had any issues with my snorkel caps if left pointed into the wind after fuelling. All fuel spillage has come from the quick drains. It seems that the small o-ring in the quick drain cannot handle the alcohol in the fuel. Fortunately I had an extra quick drain and could prepare one at a time with new viton o-rings. Unfortunately I exchanged them on the go without emptying the tanks, so each time some fuel was spilled into my shirt sleeve. My wife was not a friend that night. best regards Max NYTerminat@aol.com kirjoitti: > I put on snorkel caps that has a pitot tube that faces front. Make sure if > using your standard Zenith caps, that you have drilled the extra holes in > them according to the dwgs. > > There is nothing wrong with the Zenith touque tube. > > In a message dated 11/25/2012 2:38:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > minisalways@shaw.ca writes: > > --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "bobmccully" > > > Hello I am very new to this forum. I have built a CH701 and it has been > test flown with no major issues but I am wondering about those gas tank > caps. Do they vent properly? Do they allow even flow distribution? Or, should I > be looking for a better option? > > Also, I too was not happy with the original setup for the bellcrank/torque > tube. I used the example from the Zenair newsletter that a builder > submitted and I have to say that it works great. Wonder if Zenair could adopt it > as the new standard > bob > > -------- > not sure what this is? > > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388926#388926 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:03 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube Geez.... I always thought the controls in the 701's were identical to th e 801's, other then upsizing the material used to construct them. I thou ght the geometry of them were the same. My 801 does NOT show signs of bi asing the flaperons and the elevator is nice and smooth during its movem ent. I did go a little overboard in making sure all my controls had very little if any play in them. I also use the No Slot Flaperon design as m y plane was the prototype and the dozens of others that have bought that kit from me or constructed their own set up have not mentioned any quir ks in their control system. As for the fuel vent /spillage issue, when I built my 801 I incorporated additional fuel vents in my tanks that exit the lower skin of the wing. On my first flight with the stock caps it was clear the 701/ 801 wing d esign has so much suction on the top of the wing as to pull fuel out thr ough the vent holes in the staock caps with the fuel level at 3/4 to ful l. I simply epoxied those holes over, basicially making the caps a seale d unit and by using my additional vents, the fuel system has worked per fectly for over 400 hours. Even with my higher fuel flows of 25+ GPH dur ing take off there has not been an issue with venting. IMHO. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: maxjohansson@elisanet.fi Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube Re Torque tube There is nothing wrong per se with the 701 control torque tube but the w hole setup is a kludge resulting in one side biased flaperon control and also in simultaneously sloppy and too rigid elevator control cables. Us ing a inner coaxial tube in order to separate the two control inputs is also for me the best thing I have done in my 701 so far in order to make flying more enjoyable and precise. By selecting a slightly thicker wal l for the inner tube It is easy to show using simple rotational inertia calculations that the strenght of the inner tube is at least equal to th e outer tube. No fancy calculations is needed. Re Snorkel fuel caps and fuel spillage I have not had any issues with my snorkel caps if left pointed into the wind after fuelling. All fuel spillage has come from the quick drains. It seems that the small o-ring in the quick drain cannot handle the alco hol in the fuel. Fortunately I had an extra quick drain and could prepar e one at a time with new viton o-rings. Unfortunately I exchanged them o n the go without emptying the tanks, so each time some fuel was spilled into my shirt sleeve. My wife was not a friend that night. best regards Max NYTerminat@aol.com kirjoitti: > I put on snorkel caps that has a pitot tube that faces front. Make sur e if > using your standard Zenith caps, that you have drilled the extra hol es in > them according to the dwgs. > > There is nothing wrong with the Zenith touque tube. > > In a message dated 11/25/2012 2:38:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > minisalways@shaw.ca writes: > > --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "bobmccully" > > > Hello I am very new to this forum. I have built a CH701 and it has b een > test flown with no major issues but I am wondering about those gas ta nk > caps. Do they vent properly? Do they allow even flow distribution? Or , should I > be looking for a better option? > > Also, I too was not happy with the original setup for the bellcrank/t orque > tube. I used the example from the Zenair newsletter that a builder > submitted and I have to say that it works great. Wonder if Zenair cou ld adopt it > as the new standard > bob > > -------- > not sure what this is? > > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388926#388926 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ____________________________________________________________ Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/50b38250ca1402500169st01vuc ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube From: Stripling Cliff & Carolyn Max, I have been reading this with interest. I am at the stage of installing the fuselage controls and would like to know of alternative methods other than the stock cable arrangement. I am unfamiliar with what you are describing in the "inner coaxial tube" method of controlling the elevators separate from the ailerons. Do you have any pictures of your arrangement and/or pointers to suppliers of materials. I would appreciate any information. I did see an arrangement while in Oshkosh this year where the builder installed push pull tubes (such as in Van's RVs). I can't attempt anything heavy that will increase weight in the tail as I will have more of a weight balance problem (I already have changed out the fuselage fuel tank in favor of the wing tanks which is already a big weight change toward the rear. His was the "turbo-prop engined Zenith that was causing such a stir. It was highly modified and done with flush rivets. My engine will be the Rotax 532 with wooden prop. Thanks, Cliff ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube From: "striplic" Max (and all), I have been reading this with interest. I am at the stage of installing the fuselage controls and would like to know of alternative methods other than the stock cable arrangement. I am unfamiliar with what you are describing in the "inner coaxial tube" method of controlling the elevators separate from the ailerons. Do you have any pictures of your arrangement and/or pointers to suppliers of coaxial materials. I would appreciate any information. I did see an arrangement while in Oshkosh this year where the builder installed push pull tubes (such as in Van's RVs). I can't attempt anything heavy that will increase weight in the tail as I already have a weight balance problem having changed out the fuselage fuel tank in favor of the wing tanks. His was the turbo-prop engined Zenith that was causing such a stir. It is highly modified and done with flush rivets. My engine will be the Rotax 532 with wooden prop so I need all the weight up front I can manage. Thanks, Cliff PS If anyone has a Rotax side mount exhaust system including the manifold I need the complete system including accessories (I have the brackets). If it has been altered to fit the older 701 kit that would be even better. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388974#388974 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:51 AM PST US From: maxjohansson@elisanet.fi Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system and torque tube Cliff, sorry, my description was somewhat misleading to someone not yet working on the discussed parts. There is no push pull tubes apart from the 7C1-3 connected to the stick. The aileron is controlled using the new inner tube and the arm assembly welded to the 7C2-2 tube is now fixed and non-rotating. This rotation was the original evil. From the stick the 7C1-3 control rod must additionally now use real bearing rod ends and not only simple bolts and tube holes as before. Many methods to fix the arm assembly has been described and depicted on the various 701 lists. The best description of the tubes (with pictures and some material dimensions) have in my opinion been submitted by Joe Truncale. The CrMo 4130 structural tubes with suitable OD and ID can be ordered from Aircraft Spruce. The table is on page 62, but my catalogue is a few years old . . . BR Max Stripling Cliff & Carolyn [striplic@gmail.com] kirjoitti: > > Max, > > I have been reading this with interest. I am at the stage of installing the fuselage controls and would like to know of alternative methods other than the stock cable arrangement. I am unfamiliar with what you are describing in the "inner coaxial tube" method of controlling the elevators separate from the ailerons. Do you have any pictures of your arrangement and/or pointers to suppliers of materials. I would appreciate any information. > > I did see an arrangement while in Oshkosh this year where the builder installed push pull tubes (such as in Van's RVs). I can't attempt anything heavy that will increase weight in the tail as I will have more of a weight balance problem (I already have changed out the fuselage fuel tank in favor of the wing tanks which is already a big weight change toward the rear. His was the "turbo-prop engined Zenith that was causing such a stir. It was highly modified and done with flush rivets. My engine will be the Rotax 532 with wooden prop. > > Thanks, > Cliff > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:15 PM PST US From: Dougnoble@aol.com Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 11/25/12 Yes there are much better ways to do the controls concerning the torque tube system. In a message dated 11/26/2012 12:04:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, zenith701801-list@matronics.com writes: * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Zenith701801-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Zenith701801-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=37461&View=html&Chapter 12-11-25&Archive=Zenith701801 Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=37461&View=txt&Chapter 2012-11-25&Archive=Zenith701801 =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/25/12: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:38 AM - Re: 701 Fuel system (bobmccully) 2. 03:15 PM - Re: Re: 701 Fuel system (NYTerminat@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system From: "bobmccully" Hello I am very new to this forum. I have built a CH701 and it has been test flown with no major issues but I am wondering about those gas tank caps. Do they vent properly? Do they allow even flow distribution? Or, should I be looking for a better option? Also, I too was not happy with the original setup for the bellcrank/torque tube. I used the example from the Zenair newsletter that a builder submitted and I have to say that it works great. Wonder if Zenair could adopt it as the new standard bob -------- not sure what this is? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388926#388926 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:09 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system I put on snorkel caps that has a pitot tube that faces front. Make sure if using your standard Zenith caps, that you have drilled the extra holes in them according to the dwgs. There is nothing wrong with the Zenith touque tube. In a message dated 11/25/2012 2:38:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, minisalways@shaw.ca writes: --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "bobmccully" Hello I am very new to this forum. I have built a CH701 and it has been test flown with no major issues but I am wondering about those gas tank caps. Do they vent properly? Do they allow even flow distribution? Or, should I be looking for a better option? Also, I too was not happy with the original setup for the bellcrank/torque tube. I used the example from the Zenair newsletter that a builder submitted and I have to say that it works great. Wonder if Zenair could adopt it as the new standard bob -------- not sure what this is? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388926#388926 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:32 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 11/25/12 Hi Guys, Where is the info regarding the torque tube system? Thanks. Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 In a message dated 11/26/2012 7:57:25 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, Dougnoble@aol.com writes: Yes there are much better ways to do the controls concerning the torque tube system. In a message dated 11/26/2012 12:04:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, zenith701801-list@matronics.com writes: * ======================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Zenith701801-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Zenith701801-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=37461&View=html&Chapter 12-11-25&Archive=Zenith701801 Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=37461&View=txt&Chapter 2012-11-25&Archive=Zenith701801 ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith701801-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/25/12: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:38 AM - Re: 701 Fuel system (bobmccully) 2. 03:15 PM - Re: Re: 701 Fuel system (NYTerminat@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system From: "bobmccully" Hello I am very new to this forum. I have built a CH701 and it has been test flown with no major issues but I am wondering about those gas tank caps. Do they vent properly? Do they allow even flow distribution? Or, should I be looking for a better option? Also, I too was not happy with the original setup for the bellcrank/torque tube. I used the example from the Zenair newsletter that a builder submitted and I have to say that it works great. Wonder if Zenair could adopt it as the new standard bob -------- not sure what this is? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388926#388926 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:09 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: 701 Fuel system I put on snorkel caps that has a pitot tube that faces front. Make sure if using your standard Zenith caps, that you have drilled the extra holes in them according to the dwgs. There is nothing wrong with the Zenith touque tube. In a message dated 11/25/2012 2:38:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, minisalways@shaw.ca writes: --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "bobmccully" Hello I am very new to this forum. I have built a CH701 and it has been test flown with no major issues but I am wondering about those gas tank caps. Do they vent properly? Do they allow even flow distribution? Or, should I be looking for a better option? Also, I too was not happy with the original setup for the bellcrank/torque tube. I used the example from the Zenair newsletter that a builder submitted and I have to say that it works great. Wonder if Zenair could adopt it as the new standard bob -------- not sure what this is? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388926#388926< bsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE o find ifts bsp; lder's LP you for ; -Matt Dralle, List = Use ilities ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith701801-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith701801-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith701801-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith701801-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.