Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:20 PM - Re: Re: Slats (Joe Spencer)
2. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Slats (Ben)
3. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: Slats (infow)
4. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: Slats (roy szarafinski)
Message 1
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I've been in aviation a long time and have met all types, but never one
more competent and ethical than John Gilpin. If it's on his website you
can believe it.
As far as the slat/vg comparison goes...there is no question that the
VGs outperform the slats in all respects but the previously mentioned
very small takeoff roll penalty(my experience). The plane is much more
efficient in all other respects with the slats replaced by vgs. I
realize there are some who will never accept the facts because they have
a closed mind or some similar reason...that's certainly their choice but
also their loss. Generally, those who reject the VGs have no experience
whatsoever with them on the 701.
Best to all
Joe Spencer
Message 2
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I will be a total believer when John Gilpin designs, test flys and mark
ets his own plane based on slat-less wings. Until then he is a VG salesm
an who wants to sell his product..... Ps... I have installed the Zenith
VG's on the horizontal stabilizer of my 801 and I admit it made a big di
fference............ But.... my horizontal stabilizer didn't have slats
on it to start with so I cannot draw any conclusions.... YMMV..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Joe Spencer" <jpspencer@cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Slats
I've been in aviation a long time and have met all types, but never one
more competent and ethical than John Gilpin. If it's on his website you
can believe it. As far as the slat/vg comparison goes...there is no que
stion that the VGs outperform the slats in all respects but the previous
ly mentioned very small takeoff roll penalty(my experience). The plane i
s much more efficient in all other respects with the slats replaced by v
gs. I realize there are some who will never accept the facts because the
y have a closed mind or some similar reason...that's certainly their cho
ice but also their loss. Generally, those who reject the VGs have no exp
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Political system upset?
Democrats BIG advantage in America about to completely vanish
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Message 3
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I guess what you are saying is JG does not have the facts! Well Zenith sure took
notice of the
fact that JG was the one that did the research by placing them on the leading edge
of the
elevator... so much notice they copied them. Selling VG's is not something that
you will get
rich from... and I don't know why he does it??? You do not believe what JG does
is fact... no
one is asking you too, who cares! Kind of piss's me off when people start making
these kind
of statements with no facts. The research is all on his web site... read it,
slat less
wing/VG's, longer wing, beanie mod, streamlined stab/elev... backed up with data!
So lets not
bury our head in the sand... especially since Zenith realized that these mods were
a real
benefit(from a marketing point of view... follow the dollar), so much so they designed
the new
750 with these mods plus! Right now I'm waiting to see if Zenith places them on
the new 750
wing!!!
Ron
:--)> I will be a total believer when John Gilpin designs, test flys and markets
his own
:--)> plane based on slat-less wings. Until then he is a VG salesman who wants
to sell
:--)> his product..... Ps... I have installed the Zenith VG's on the horizontal
:--)> stabilizer of my 801 and I admit it made a big difference............ But....
my
:--)> horizontal stabilizer didn't have slats on it to start with so I cannot draw
any
:--)> conclusions.... YMMV..
:--)>
:--)> do not archive
:--)>
:--)>
:--)> Ben Haas
:--)> N801BH
:--)> www.haaspowerair.com
:--)>
:--)> ---------- Original Message ----------
:--)> From: "Joe Spencer" <jpspencer@cableone.net>
:--)> To: <zenith701801-list@matronics.com>
:--)> Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Slats
:--)> Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 18:20:15 -0500
:--)> I've been in aviation a long time and have met all types, but never one more
:--)> competent and ethical than John Gilpin. If it's on his website you can believe
it.
:--)>
:--)> As far as the slat/vg comparison goes...there is no question that the VGs
:--)> outperform the slats in all respects but the previously mentioned very small
:--)> takeoff roll penalty(my experience). The plane is much more efficient in
all other
:--)> respects with the slats replaced by vgs. I realize there are some who will
never
:--)> accept the facts because they have a closed mind or some similar reason...that's
:--)> certainly their choice but also their loss. Generally, those who reject the
VGs
:--)> have no experience whatsoever with them on the 701.
:--)>
:--)> Best to all
:--)> Joe Spencer
:--)>
:--)> ===================================
:--)>
1-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
:--)> ==================================== tronics.com
:--)> ==================================== www.matronics.com/contribution
:--)> ===================================
:--)>
:--)> ____________________________________________________________ Political system
upset?
:--)> Democrats BIG advantage in America about to completely vanish stansberryresearch.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
:--)> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
:--)> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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OK, I think I understand the concepts but am open to suggestions.
Removing the slat shortens chord length. The 701 plans calls out the correct C.G.
range to be between 20 and 35% mean aerodynamic chord, measured from the slat
leading edge at rib #1. I'm thinking that removing the slat will move the CG
range rearward slightly.
I do think that JG has demonstrated his VG's but I am interested in the WB calculations.
So, slat-less and using a heavier engine means more rear ballast for me, which
I'd rather avoid as much as possible.
John Bolding has provided a nose rib pattern for the 65018 airfoil which should
restore the GC range forward. It is very close to the same as the Savannah-S
wing. Interestingly, the CG range is 25 to 38% MAC per the Savannah POH.
Since the Ex got the farm, extreme STOL is less important than lessening some drag.
Roy
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