Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:18 AM - Autocad DWG Files (stepinwolf)
2. 07:57 AM - Re: Autocad DWG Files ()
3. 08:30 AM - Re: Autocad DWG Files (Chris Blackmore)
4. 10:46 AM - Re: Autocad DWG Files (Robert Pelland)
5. 11:32 AM - Re: Autocad DWG Files (Yuri Rajczuk Dombi)
6. 01:05 PM - Re: Autocad DWG Files (John)
7. 02:01 PM - Re: Autocad DWG Files (Robert Pelland)
8. 05:02 PM - Re: Autocad DWG Files ()
9. 08:13 PM - Re: Autocad DWG Files (stepinwolf)
10. 09:10 PM - Re: Autocad DWG Files (joe motis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Autocad DWG Files |
I am a 701 & 750 scratch builder, and in order to make things more interesting for my 750 build, I am planing, among other things, to build a CNC machine in the coming year. The " MechMate " unit ( check out the following site ) http://www.mechmate.com/ will be built with a 5' x 12' table, so that complete 12' aluminum sheets can be process by the machine.
My question to fellow Matronics List members is this. Does anyone have, or have
access to Autocad DWG files for the 750, that they would be willing to share.?
I am quite aware that I can spend my time drawing them myself, however my time
would be better spent assembling, and flying, then by spending weeks in front
of the keyboard, drawing DWG files that have already been done by someone
else.
If I were to get help in obtaining the necessary 750, or even the 701's files for
that matter, cutting out assorted parts for a fellow builder's would not be
out of question.
A big thank you, to all those of you, who will take the time to address my concerns.
Robert
the 701&750 scratch.
www.autoretro.info
--------
Live each day, as if it was your last
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281889#281889
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad DWG Files |
Speaking as a machinist:
You might find it impractical to try to cut sheet metal on a mill type setup. Your
biggest problem is work hold down, es. a 4x12 sheet. Even if you use a reverse
spiral bit so it doesn't pull the sheet up, you'll still have tremendous
vibration of the sheet if you don't have some kind of hold down along the path
of the cut.
A better way to go would be to come up with some sort of CNC punch head for it,
punch the the rivet and screw holes, then us them as some system to clamp the
sheet metal down while you mill the part out.
all of this however, is probably gilding the lilly. IIRC from my 701 plans (don't
have them anymore, and don't have 750 plans at this time), most of the sheet
parts besides the ribs are straight cut, and could be cut on a shear.
The ribs could be cut with a waterjet ($$$) if you have the CAD files. With all
the time and money involved, I'd rather spend the money on sub kits from Zenith.
I know this is not what you were asking, but you are going through a lot of trouble
for very little return.
---- stepinwolf <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
>
> I am a 701 & 750 scratch builder, and in order to make things more interesting for my 750 build, I am planing, among other things, to build a CNC machine in the coming year. The " MechMate " unit ( check out the following site ) http://www.mechmate.com/ will be built with a 5' x 12' table, so that complete 12' aluminum sheets can be process by the machine.
>
> My question to fellow Matronics List members is this. Does anyone have, or have
access to Autocad DWG files for the 750, that they would be willing to share.?
I am quite aware that I can spend my time drawing them myself, however my
time would be better spent assembling, and flying, then by spending weeks in
front of the keyboard, drawing DWG files that have already been done by someone
else.
>
> If I were to get help in obtaining the necessary 750, or even the 701's files
for that matter, cutting out assorted parts for a fellow builder's would not
be out of question.
>
> A big thank you, to all those of you, who will take the time to address my concerns.
>
> Robert
> the 701&750 scratch.
>
> www.autoretro.info
>
> --------
> Live each day, as if it was your last
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281889#281889
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad DWG Files |
May be you are right ....I have been told this before, just had to ask!
Chris
-------Original Message-------
From: rcav8r@charter.net
Subject: Re: Zenith750-List: Autocad DWG Files
Speaking as a machinist:
You might find it impractical to try to cut sheet metal on a mill type se
tup
Your biggest problem is work hold down, es. a 4x12 sheet. Even if you us
e a
reverse spiral bit so it doesn't pull the sheet up, you'll still have
tremendous vibration of the sheet if you don't have some kind of hold dow
n
along the path of the cut.
A better way to go would be to come up with some sort of CNC punch head f
or
it, punch the the rivet and screw holes, then us them as some system to
clamp the sheet metal down while you mill the part out.
all of this however, is probably gilding the lilly. IIRC from my 701 plan
s
(don't have them anymore, and don't have 750 plans at this time), most of
the sheet parts besides the ribs are straight cut, and could be cut on a
shear.
The ribs could be cut with a waterjet ($$$) if you have the CAD files.
With all the time and money involved, I'd rather spend the money on sub k
its
from Zenith.
I know this is not what you were asking, but you are going through a lot
of
trouble for very little return.
---- stepinwolf <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
pelland@cgocable.ca>
>
> I am a 701 & 750 scratch builder, and in order to make things more
interesting for my 750 build, I am planing, among other things, to build
a
CNC machine in the coming year. The " MechMate " unit ( check out the
following site ) http://www.mechmate.com/ will be built with a 5' x 12'
table, so that complete 12' aluminum sheets can be process by the machine
=2E
>
> My question to fellow Matronics List members is this. Does anyone have,
or
have access to Autocad DWG files for the 750, that they would be willing
to
share.? I am quite aware that I can spend my time drawing them myself,
however my time would be better spent assembling, and flying, then by
spending weeks in front of the keyboard, drawing DWG files that have alre
ady
been done by someone else.
>
> If I were to get help in obtaining the necessary 750, or even the 701's
files for that matter, cutting out assorted parts for a fellow builder's
would not be out of question.
>
> A big thank you, to all those of you, who will take the time to address
my
concerns.
>
> Robert
> the 701&750 scratch.
>
> www.autoretro.info
>
> --------
> Live each day, as if it was your last
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281889#281889
>
>
==========
==========
==========
==========
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad DWG Files |
Thank's for your input, rcav8r,
but things are not always as they seem. For starters, the CNC "
Mechmate " once built, will also be used as an additional revenue source
for me, doing sub-work for local customers cutting thin, assorted metal
sheets and wood products.
As for the hold down problem you might think I will have, it's actually
non existent since the Mechmate has a complete vacuum system installed
under the table, and there are presently quite a few members on the
Mechmate forum, who are actually using the very same system I plan on
having, and are working with 12' aluminum sheets with no problem what so
ever. If in doubt, I can link you to a few who do this regularly on
aluminum sheets from .016, all the way up to 1/2" thick.
In as much as a shear is concerned, if you take a close look at the
plans, even though there are quite a few parts made up of straight
lines, few parts could be made using a regular shear, and I think a
shear wide enough to be useful, would not be costs effective.
Thank you for your concerns
regards
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: rcav8r@charter.net
To: zenith750-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith750-List: Autocad DWG Files
Speaking as a machinist:
You might find it impractical to try to cut sheet metal on a mill type
setup. Your biggest problem is work hold down, es. a 4x12 sheet. Even if
you use a reverse spiral bit so it doesn't pull the sheet up, you'll
still have tremendous vibration of the sheet if you don't have some kind
of hold down along the path of the cut.
A better way to go would be to come up with some sort of CNC punch
head for it, punch the the rivet and screw holes, then us them as some
system to clamp the sheet metal down while you mill the part out.
all of this however, is probably gilding the lilly. IIRC from my 701
plans (don't have them anymore, and don't have 750 plans at this time),
most of the sheet parts besides the ribs are straight cut, and could be
cut on a shear.
The ribs could be cut with a waterjet ($$$) if you have the CAD
files. With all the time and money involved, I'd rather spend the money
on sub kits from Zenith.
I know this is not what you were asking, but you are going through a
lot of trouble for very little return.
---- stepinwolf <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
<robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
>
> I am a 701 & 750 scratch builder, and in order to make things more
interesting for my 750 build, I am planing, among other things, to build
a CNC machine in the coming year. The " MechMate " unit ( check out the
following site ) http://www.mechmate.com/ will be built with a 5' x 12'
table, so that complete 12' aluminum sheets can be process by the
machine.
>
> My question to fellow Matronics List members is this. Does anyone
have, or have access to Autocad DWG files for the 750, that they would
be willing to share.? I am quite aware that I can spend my time drawing
them myself, however my time would be better spent assembling, and
flying, then by spending weeks in front of the keyboard, drawing DWG
files that have already been done by someone else.
>
> If I were to get help in obtaining the necessary 750, or even the
701's files for that matter, cutting out assorted parts for a fellow
builder's would not be out of question.
>
> A big thank you, to all those of you, who will take the time to
address my concerns.
>
> Robert
> the 701&750 scratch.
>
> www.autoretro.info
>
> --------
> Live each day, as if it was your last
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281889#281889
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad DWG Files |
Robert,
I also do not have the CAD and would be happy if you share when you obtain
it.
As for MM, yes it is possible and feasible.
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t'3
Best regards,
Yuri - Brazil
2010/1/17 Robert Pelland <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
> Thank's for your input, rcav8r,
>
> but things are not always as they seem. For starters, the CNC " Mechmate "
> once built, will also be used as an additional revenue source for me, doing
> sub-work for local customers cutting thin, assorted metal sheets and wood
> products.
>
> As for the hold down problem you might think I will have, it's actually non
> existent since the Mechmate has a complete vacuum system installed under the
> table, and there are presently quite a few members on the Mechmate forum,
> who are actually using the very same system I plan on having, and are
> working with 12' aluminum sheets with no problem what so ever. If in doubt,
> I can link you to a few who do this regularly on aluminum sheets from .016,
> all the way up to 1/2" thick.
>
> In as much as a shear is concerned, if you take a close look at the plans,
> even though there are quite a few parts made up of straight lines, few parts
> could be made using a regular shear, and I think a shear wide enough to be
> useful, would not be costs effective.
>
> Thank you for your concerns
>
> regards
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* rcav8r@charter.net
> *To:* zenith750-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:55 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith750-List: Autocad DWG Files
>
>
> Speaking as a machinist:
> You might find it impractical to try to cut sheet metal on a mill type
> setup. Your biggest problem is work hold down, es. a 4x12 sheet. Even if you
> use a reverse spiral bit so it doesn't pull the sheet up, you'll still have
> tremendous vibration of the sheet if you don't have some kind of hold down
> along the path of the cut.
>
> A better way to go would be to come up with some sort of CNC punch head for
> it, punch the the rivet and screw holes, then us them as some system to
> clamp the sheet metal down while you mill the part out.
>
> all of this however, is probably gilding the lilly. IIRC from my 701 plans
> (don't have them anymore, and don't have 750 plans at this time), most of
> the sheet parts besides the ribs are straight cut, and could be cut on a
> shear.
> The ribs could be cut with a waterjet ($$$) if you have the CAD files.
> With all the time and money involved, I'd rather spend the money on sub kits
> from Zenith.
>
> I know this is not what you were asking, but you are going through a lot of
> trouble for very little return.
>
> ---- stepinwolf <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
> robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
> >
> > I am a 701 & 750 scratch builder, and in order to make things more
> interesting for my 750 build, I am planing, among other things, to build a
> CNC machine in the coming year. The " MechMate " unit ( check out the
> following site ) http://www.mechmate.com/ will be built with a 5' x 12'
> table, so that complete 12' aluminum sheets can be process by the machine.
> >
> > My question to fellow Matronics List members is this. Does anyone have,
> or have access to Autocad DWG files for the 750, that they would be willing
> to share.? I am quite aware that I can spend my time drawing them myself,
> however my time would be better spent assembling, and flying, then by
> spending weeks in front of the keyboard, drawing DWG files that have already
> been done by someone else.
> >
> > If I were to get help in obtaining the necessary 750, or even the 701's
> files for that matter, cutting out assorted parts for a fellow builder's
> would not be out of question.
> >
> > A big thank you, to all those of you, who will take the time to address
> my concerns.
> >
> > Robert
> > the 701&750 scratch.
> >
> > www.autoretro.info
> >
> > --------
> > Live each day, as if it was your last
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281889#281889
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith750-List>
> _p; generous bsp; href="
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
> http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad DWG Files |
Oh, ok! I didnt know the system had a vac table! I take back what I
said about the setup :)
As for the shear, which parts could not be cut on a 8' shear? I have
access to one, so that's "standard" for me. I think the biggest
challange for any metal wing project is bending the spar flanges, if
they have them.
I will check out the links. There's been many the time when I wished
for a CNC setup at home instead of doing "government" projects at work.
On Jan 17, 2010, at 12:45 PM, "Robert Pelland" <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca
> wrote:
> Thank's for your input, rcav8r,
>
> but things are not always as they seem. For starters, the CNC "
> Mechmate " once built, will also be used as an additional revenue
> source for me, doing sub-work for local customers cutting thin,
> assorted metal sheets and wood products.
>
> As for the hold down problem you might think I will have, it's
> actually non existent since the Mechmate has a complete vacuum
> system installed under the table, and there are presently quite a
> few members on the Mechmate forum, who are actually using the very
> same system I plan on having, and are working with 12' aluminum
> sheets with no problem what so ever. If in doubt, I can link you to
> a few who do this regularly on aluminum sheets from .016, all the
> way up to 1/2" thick.
>
> In as much as a shear is concerned, if you take a close look at the
> plans, even though there are quite a few parts made up of straight
> lines, few parts could be made using a regular shear, and I think a
> shear wide enough to be useful, would not be costs effective.
>
> Thank you for your concerns
>
> regards
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rcav8r@charter.net
> To: zenith750-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith750-List: Autocad DWG Files
>
>
> Speaking as a machinist:
> You might find it impractical to try to cut sheet metal on a mill
> type setup. Your biggest problem is work hold down, es. a 4x12
> sheet. Even if you use a reverse spiral bit so it doesn't pull the
> sheet up, you'll still have tremendous vibration of the sheet if you
> don't have some kind of hold down along the path of the cut.
>
> A better way to go would be to come up with some sort of CNC punch
> head for it, punch the the rivet and screw holes, then us them as
> some system to clamp the sheet metal down while you mill the part out.
>
> all of this however, is probably gilding the lilly. IIRC from my 701
> plans (don't have them anymore, and don't have 750 plans at this
> time), most of the sheet parts besides the ribs are straight cut,
> and could be cut on a shear.
> The ribs could be cut with a waterjet ($$$) if you have the CAD
> files. With all the time and money involved, I'd rather spend the
> money on sub kits from Zenith.
>
> I know this is not what you were asking, but you are going through a
> lot of trouble for very little return.
>
> ---- stepinwolf <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am a 701 & 750 scratch builder, and in order to make things more
> interesting for my 750 build, I am planing, among other things, to
> build a CNC machine in the coming year. The " MechMate " unit
> ( check out the following site ) http://www.mechmate.com/ will be
> built with a 5' x 12' table, so that complete 12' aluminum sheets
> can be process by the machine.
> >
> > My question to fellow Matronics List members is this. Does anyone
> have, or have access to Autocad DWG files for the 750, that they
> would be willing to share.? I am quite aware that I can spend my
> time drawing them myself, however my time would be better spent
> assembling, and flying, then by spending weeks in front of the
> keyboard, drawing DWG files that have already been done by
> someone else.
> >
> > If I were to get help in obtaining the necessary 750, or even the
> 701's files for that matter, cutting out assorted parts for a
> fellow builder's would not be out of question.
> >
> > A big thank you, to all those of you, who will take the time to
> address my concerns.
> >
> > Robert
> > the 701&750 scratch.
> >
> > www.autoretro.info
> >
> > --------
> > Live each day, as if it was your last
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281889#281889
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad DWG Files |
For starters, before we exchange any other messages, I would like to
know whom I am talking.
As for what parts that could not be sheared on your 8' shear, well the
list ( if I had time to make one up ) would certainly include the main,
and rear spars in the wings, then all the fuselage covering, sides, top,
bottom, ad to that all the major aluminum coverings on the main wings,
and there would surly be more if I had time to go over the plans.
You are fortunate to have access to an 8' shear, but have you taken the
time source pricing an 8' wide shear. I have just purchased an 8' Brown
& Borg brake, and pricing on the shears was more expensive then the
brake itself.
As for the biggest challenge, it doesn't reside ( as you imply ) in
bending the spars flanges, since those are relivately easy with a decent
brake, but rather forming the flanges on the complete set of front and
rear ribs, that is where the real labor is !
But hey! there has be work involved somewhere in the construction,
else wise everyone would be building airplanes
regards
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: John
To: zenith750-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith750-List: Autocad DWG Files
Oh, ok! I didnt know the system had a vac table! I take back what I
said about the setup :)
As for the shear, which parts could not be cut on a 8' shear? I have
access to one, so that's "standard" for me. I think the biggest
challange for any metal wing project is bending the spar flanges, if
they have them.
I will check out the links. There's been many the time when I wished
for a CNC setup at home instead of doing "government" projects at work.
On Jan 17, 2010, at 12:45 PM, "Robert Pelland"
<robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
Thank's for your input, rcav8r,
but things are not always as they seem. For starters, the CNC "
Mechmate " once built, will also be used as an additional revenue source
for me, doing sub-work for local customers cutting thin, assorted metal
sheets and wood products.
As for the hold down problem you might think I will have, it's
actually non existent since the Mechmate has a complete vacuum system
installed under the table, and there are presently quite a few members
on the Mechmate forum, who are actually using the very same system I
plan on having, and are working with 12' aluminum sheets with no problem
what so ever. If in doubt, I can link you to a few who do this
regularly on aluminum sheets from .016, all the way up to 1/2" thick.
In as much as a shear is concerned, if you take a close look at the
plans, even though there are quite a few parts made up of straight
lines, few parts could be made using a regular shear, and I think a
shear wide enough to be useful, would not be costs effective.
Thank you for your concerns
regards
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: rcav8r@charter.net
To: zenith750-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith750-List: Autocad DWG Files
Speaking as a machinist:
You might find it impractical to try to cut sheet metal on a mill
type setup. Your biggest problem is work hold down, es. a 4x12 sheet.
Even if you use a reverse spiral bit so it doesn't pull the sheet up,
you'll still have tremendous vibration of the sheet if you don't have
some kind of hold down along the path of the cut.
A better way to go would be to come up with some sort of CNC punch
head for it, punch the the rivet and screw holes, then us them as some
system to clamp the sheet metal down while you mill the part out.
all of this however, is probably gilding the lilly. IIRC from my
701 plans (don't have them anymore, and don't have 750 plans at this
time), most of the sheet parts besides the ribs are straight cut, and
could be cut on a shear.
The ribs could be cut with a waterjet ($$$) if you have the CAD
files. With all the time and money involved, I'd rather spend the money
on sub kits from Zenith.
I know this is not what you were asking, but you are going through
a lot of trouble for very little return.
---- stepinwolf <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
<robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
>
> I am a 701 & 750 scratch builder, and in order to make things
more interesting for my 750 build, I am planing, among other things, to
build a CNC machine in the coming year. The " MechMate " unit ( check
out the following site ) http://www.mechmate.com/ will be built with a
5' x 12' table, so that complete 12' aluminum sheets can be process by
the machine.
>
> My question to fellow Matronics List members is this. Does
anyone have, or have access to Autocad DWG files for the 750, that they
would be willing to share.? I am quite aware that I can spend my time
drawing them myself, however my time would be better spent assembling,
and flying, then by spending weeks in front of the keyboard, drawing DWG
files that have already been done by someone else.
>
> If I were to get help in obtaining the necessary 750, or even
the 701's files for that matter, cutting out assorted parts for a fellow
builder's would not be out of question.
>
> A big thank you, to all those of you, who will take the time to
address my concerns.
>
> Robert
> the 701&750 scratch.
>
> www.autoretro.info
>
> --------
> Live each day, as if it was your last
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281889#281889
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad DWG Files |
Well, My name is John Thompson, and I live in WI. Several years ago, I was interested
in building the 701, even bought a bunch of material, but just couldn't
get used to the low gross wieght even with the 4th gen drawings.
Right now, I'm working on a Bearhawk. You can buy various levels of kits including
a quick build. I bought a wing parts kit for this (ribs and spars mainly).One
of the most frequent questions for this plane is "can I build my own 8' brake
out of xxxx". The answer is usually no, since nobody can seem to figure out
how to keep the spar straight in a wood brake (most common idea), but it sounds
like someone on this list has done it. There are plans for a 8' steel brake
out there, weights about 600# when finished. Might make a good chapter project.
I initially had my ribs waterjetted after I made my own CAD ribs (both work bennies),
but later decided to just get the wing parts kit I mentioned above simply
because of the hassle of finding a place to bend the spars.
I don't recall how the 701 series fuse sides and wing skins are sized, so you've
got me on those. I'd probably just cut them by hand with snips or power sheer.
No denying forming the ribs is hard, simply labor intensive. I seem to recall that
the 701 rib form blocks needed a 8 degree reverse on them to keep the flanges
90 degrees to the rib itself? And a L & R form block are needed. Is the 750
similiar in that rgard?
---- Robert Pelland <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
> For starters, before we exchange any other messages, I would like to know whom
I am talking.
>
> As for what parts that could not be sheared on your 8' shear, well the list (
if I had time to make one up ) would certainly include the main, and rear spars
in the wings, then all the fuselage covering, sides, top, bottom, ad to that
all the major aluminum coverings on the main wings, and there would surly be
more if I had time to go over the plans.
>
> You are fortunate to have access to an 8' shear, but have you taken the time
source pricing an 8' wide shear. I have just purchased an 8' Brown & Borg brake,
and pricing on the shears was more expensive then the brake itself.
>
> As for the biggest challenge, it doesn't reside ( as you imply ) in bending the
spars flanges, since those are relivately easy with a decent brake, but rather
forming the flanges on the complete set of front and rear ribs, that is where
the real labor is !
>
> But hey! there has be work involved somewhere in the construction, else wise
everyone would be building airplanes
>
> regards
> Robert
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad DWG Files |
Please to make your acquaintance John, I live in Three Rivers, Quebec, just North
of the US border, about two hours drive, from Champlain New York.
Personally I did not decide to go with the 701 or 750 for the gross weight, the
load carrying or the STOL capacity, but rather because they are all aluminum
aircraft, and by the same token, easy to build, and easy to repair. The fact
that they can be left outside without any protection were not initially part of
my decision.
The Zenith factory, now offer both aircraft in kit form, and also in partial component
kits, ( as your Bearcat ) so that the builder can , as we say pay as they
build. In my case, being retired, and trying to make ends meet on a small
disability pension, did not permit me to purchase anything in kit form, so I was
obliged to purchase raw material, and make up all the cutting, and forming
block's. It goes without saying that this part of the build, was extremely time
consuming, and the principal reason I decided to build the Mechmate.
As far as brakes are concerned, I originally built the 4' brake from the plans that are found on the CanZac website, ( see attached pic ) but I quickly realized that nothing but an 8' would be acceptable for the projects. The best brake project I have seen on the various Forums, is the brake offered by Mac's Machine and Design http://www.macsmachine.com/ he will sell you the plans ( right up your alley since one needs to have access to a machine shop to fab all the parts) and when your through, if you send him a photo of the completed project, he will refund your money. A win win situation.
Both Zenith main spars, don't need to be bent, since they are capped with extruded
aluminum angle. As for the front and rear ribs, both the 701 and 750 are very
similar, not enough to use the same forming block's, but very close. In
my case to speed things up, I rough cut the blanks with my plasma cutter, then
run them through a router for the final cut. Then the fun starts with the forming
block's and hammer giving them the proper, 9 degree bend back angle.
All the the fuselage sections for both aircraft are cut from full length 12' sheets,
so no shear is not going to cut it. Good luck with your project
regards
Robert
--------
Live each day, as if it was your last
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282021#282021
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brake2_716.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad DWG Files |
Hi all,
I am building a 750 from plans.
A $ .99 clear plastic ruler, a good compass with a fine line sharpie ty
wrapped to it instead of the pencil, a couple of squares and a tape measure
will layout this entire airplane. Lightening holes are easy with holesaws
either in the drillpress or in a cordless drill. I started with the wings
and cut all the blanks for the nose and rear ribs with an electric hand held
shear and a pair of 12" Andy snips.The ribs were formed with a deadblow
hammer over plywood forms. I have started using oak now, much more durable.
The form blocks were all cut out on my cheapo 14" bandsaw. Most all of the
other fitments for the wings has been cut out on a cheap bandsaw with a 14
tpi blade or with snips.A woodcuuting bandsaw sings through .25 6061 like
butter A 12' disc sander and Harbor freight sanding drums in the drill press
clean up all the saw marks quickly. The wing spars which are made fromm
6061 T6 and were cut with a straitedge and a Olfa linoleum cutter in less
than an hour. The spar flanges are 1" x 1" x .125 6061 T6 extrusion so no
bending required..As for bending flanges on your sheet metal, the cheap 18"
and 30 " brakes from Harbor freight work fine and do a great deal of the
work required. They cost about $40 bucks each. I am building "Dave's sheet
metal brake"" now out of angle iron and piano hinge and it will bend the
channels and other larger sheet metal parts with no problem. Most all of
the fuselage sheet and wing skins can be roughed out with a cheap electric
or pneumatic shear and the fine line left to trim is no work at all with a
12" pair of Andy snips.
My point is that simple tools will take you a long way down the road in the
construction of this airplane.
Joe Motis
plans built CH 750
NO ARCHIVE
On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Robert Pelland
<robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>wrote:
> For starters, before we exchange any other messages, I would like to know
> whom I am talking.
>
> As for what parts that could not be sheared on your 8' shear, well the list
> ( if I had time to make one up ) would certainly include the main, and rear
> spars in the wings, then all the fuselage covering, sides, top, bottom, ad
> to that all the major aluminum coverings on the main wings, and there would
> surly be more if I had time to go over the plans.
>
> You are fortunate to have access to an 8' shear, but have you taken the
> time source pricing an 8' wide shear. I have just purchased an 8' Brown &
> Borg brake, and pricing on the shears was more expensive then the brake
> itself.
>
> As for the biggest challenge, it doesn't reside ( as you imply ) in bending
> the spars flanges, since those are relivately easy with a decent brake, but
> rather forming the flanges on the complete set of front and rear ribs, that
> is where the real labor is !
>
> But hey! there has be work involved somewhere in the construction, else
> wise everyone would be building airplanes
>
> regards
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John <rcav8r@charter.net>
> *To:* zenith750-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 17, 2010 3:51 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith750-List: Autocad DWG Files
>
> Oh, ok! I didnt know the system had a vac table! I take back what I said
> about the setup :)
>
> As for the shear, which parts could not be cut on a 8' shear? I have access
> to one, so that's "standard" for me. I think the biggest challange for any
> metal wing project is bending the spar flanges, if they have them.
> I will check out the links. There's been many the time when I wished for a
> CNC setup at home instead of doing "government" projects at work.
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2010, at 12:45 PM, "Robert Pelland" <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
> wrote:
>
> Thank's for your input, rcav8r,
>
> but things are not always as they seem. For starters, the CNC " Mechmate "
> once built, will also be used as an additional revenue source for me, doing
> sub-work for local customers cutting thin, assorted metal sheets and wood
> products.
>
> As for the hold down problem you might think I will have, it's actually non
> existent since the Mechmate has a complete vacuum system installed under the
> table, and there are presently quite a few members on the Mechmate forum,
> who are actually using the very same system I plan on having, and are
> working with 12' aluminum sheets with no problem what so ever. If in doubt,
> I can link you to a few who do this regularly on aluminum sheets from .016,
> all the way up to 1/2" thick.
>
> In as much as a shear is concerned, if you take a close look at the plans,
> even though there are quite a few parts made up of straight lines, few parts
> could be made using a regular shear, and I think a shear wide enough to be
> useful, would not be costs effective.
>
> Thank you for your concerns
>
> regards
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* rcav8r@charter.net
> *To:* zenith750-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:55 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith750-List: Autocad DWG Files
>
>
> Speaking as a machinist:
> You might find it impractical to try to cut sheet metal on a mill type
> setup. Your biggest problem is work hold down, es. a 4x12 sheet. Even if you
> use a reverse spiral bit so it doesn't pull the sheet up, you'll still have
> tremendous vibration of the sheet if you don't have some kind of hold down
> along the path of the cut.
>
> A better way to go would be to come up with some sort of CNC punch head for
> it, punch the the rivet and screw holes, then us them as some system to
> clamp the sheet metal down while you mill the part out.
>
> all of this however, is probably gilding the lilly. IIRC from my 701 plans
> (don't have them anymore, and don't have 750 plans at this time), most of
> the sheet parts besides the ribs are straight cut, and could be cut on a
> shear.
> The ribs could be cut with a waterjet ($$$) if you have the CAD files.
> With all the time and money involved, I'd rather spend the money on sub kits
> from Zenith.
>
> I know this is not what you were asking, but you are going through a lot of
> trouble for very little return.
>
> ---- stepinwolf <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
> robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
> >
> > I am a 701 & 750 scratch builder, and in order to make things more
> interesting for my 750 build, I am planing, among other things, to build a
> CNC machine in the coming year. The " MechMate " unit ( check out the
> following site ) http://www.mechmate.com/ will be built with a 5' x 12'
> table, so that complete 12' aluminum sheets can be process by the machine.
> >
> > My question to fellow Matronics List members is this. Does anyone have,
> or have access to Autocad DWG files for the 750, that they would be willing
> to share.? I am quite aware that I can spend my time drawing them myself,
> however my time would be better spent assembling, and flying, then by
> spending weeks in front of the keyboard, drawing DWG files that have already
> been done by someone else.
> >
> > If I were to get help in obtaining the necessary 750, or even the 701's
> files for that matter, cutting out assorted parts for a fellow builder's
> would not be out of question.
> >
> > A big thank you, to all those of you, who will take the time to address
> my concerns.
> >
> > Robert
> > the 701&750 scratch.
> >
> > www.autoretro.info
> >
> > --------
> > Live each day, as if it was your last
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281889#281889
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web href="
> http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith750-List>
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