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Help me I'm hooked!

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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: Help me I'm hooked!

 	  Quote: 	
		  I want to make a plea to all of you who are Lightning owners to possibly help me.  I have flown in the Green Landings Lightning, and just came back from a trip to Shelbyville where my brother in law and I sat in a Lightning that was on the floor.  This was (I believe one of the new Lightnings with the narrow console and more room. To say that I was disappointed would be a minor statement; I was crushed! I just don’t fit.  To start with, I am a pretty big fellow, 6’-2” and 265lmb, but the main thing was that I had to tilt my head sideways when I closed the canopy, as did my brother in law, (he’s 6’-3” and skinny). We were bumping shoulders, but I kind of expected that.  I did not expect the lack of headroom though.  I really love the aircraft, engine, and all the things about the Lightning except the room! I can’t bring myself to give up on this little gem and am wondering if there are some things that could be done (besides cutting off my legs), that would create more room in the aircraft.  	
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject: Help me I'm hooked!

Jim,

     I can't tell from your post, but was this a  finished aircraft?  I guess I didn't understand what you meant by "on the  floor".  Anyway, my question, if it was a finished Lightning, did you have  the rudder pedals far enough forward?  The Lightning "in flight" adjustable  rudder pedals are great.  The provide for more leg room than any other  aircraft I have flown.  I am 6'2" and have no problem, they go way further  forward than I need them for my legs.  So if you have long legs, run the  rudder pedals forward and slump down in the seat to get more head room.  It  this works, you can have the upholstery folks build your seat cushions for the  seating position that works for you.   

 Buz



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

sailmo(at)erols.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: Help me I'm hooked!

Greetings all:

 I too, am hooked on the Lightning performance, looks, cost, etc.  I personally know Buz Rich, have sat in his plane, and I recently sat in a finished Lightning based in Virginia.  Prior to sitting in the Lightning, I was ready to pull the trigger, put down a deposit, and schedule some builder's assist time.  Unfortunately, the canopy touches the top of my head even when I am scrunched down in the seat; and that is WITHOUT a headset on.  I believe that the Lightning that I sat in had the usual amount of foam in the seat - the new and improved LESSER amount.   I am not so sure if the plane that I sat in has the 'narrow' console between the two seats; but I think that it did.  I am not as tall as Jim Langley, I am 5' 11" and weigh 260.  My shoulders are VERY broad - I hardly fit into a Cessna 172.  A few days ago, I tried to fit into a Velocity SE, but could not close the door without turning my shoulder inwards.   I need a plane with cabin width of at least 46 inches and a canopy that will let me sit up in comfort with a head set on.

 

 Despite the fact that my shoulders were brushing up against my wife's shoulders, I felt that I could be comfortable in the Lightning seat for a long distance flight (butt room), but with the canopy touching my head, there is no way for me to feel comfortable making a purchase decision unless there is a remedy ( a canopy with more volume at head level).  While this seems like a problem that could easily be remedied; I am sure that a canopy redesign is far more complex than I can imagine.  Plus, how will a larger canopy affect performance - will a larger canopy completely destroy the Lightning advantages of fuel efficient FAST flight?

 

 I am ready to invest the money it would take to purchase a nicely equipped Lightning; but I fear that I must look elsewhere for a plane that has enough room for a pilot with my size shoulders.  Perhaps the only answer for me is to find a partner and purchase a share of a used Cirrus.  From experience, the Cirrus cabin is adequate (and yes, I realize that a Cirrus is a 4 seat plane, the Lightning is not).  

 

 I am NOT knocking the Lightning - like Jim Langley, I am simply expressing my experience and frustration.  I like the Lightning and think it is well engineered and gives plenty of bang for the buck.  If only I could fit inside!!  Like Jim Langley, I was crushed when I experienced the lack of headroom under the canopy.

 

 I'd sure like to know of a good solution within the next 3 weeks.  I want to have a great plane ready to fly out to the West coast at the end of the summer.  If the Lightning community can come up with a great solution, I will rethink building a Lightning; but if I don't get started soon, a new Lightning would not be ready by the time I want to head out west at the end of August.

 

 Thanks for letting me give my 2 cents worth of opinion;

 John D. Williams

 Williamsburg, VA

 757 565-2022

 

 

 

 Jim Langley wrote:

 [quote]                    	  Quote: 	
		  I want to make a plea to all of you who are Lightning owners to possibly help me.  I have flown in the Green Landings Lightning, and just came back from a trip to Shelbyville where my brother in law and I sat in a Lightning that was on the floor.  This was (I believe one of the new Lightnings with the narrow console and more room. To say that I was disappointed would be a minor statement; I was crushed! I just don’t fit.  To start with, I am a pretty big fellow, 6’-2” and 265lmb, but the main thing was that I had to tilt my head sideways when I closed the canopy, as did my brother in law, (he’s 6’-3” and skinny). We were bumping shoulders, but I kind of expected that.  I did not expect the lack of headroom though.  I really love the aircraft, engine, and all the things about the Lightning except the room! I can’t bring myself to give up on this little gem and am wondering if there are some things that could be done (besides cutting off my legs), that would create more room in the aircraft.  	
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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: Help me I'm hooked!

Yes, the Lightning was finished and looked like Joe’s plane from the pics.  Pete had mentioned that during the build, I might be able to adjust the angle of the seat back to allow me to sit back more.  I have plenty of leg room as although I am 6’-2”, my legs are only 31”.  It’s my torso that is bigger than average.  

   

I will most likely try scooting forward in the demo and SNF.  

   

Thanks   

Jim!  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM

 Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 9:56 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Help me I'm hooked!  

  

     

Jim,  

    

    I can't tell from your post, but was this a finished aircraft?  I guess I didn't understand what you meant by "on the floor".  Anyway, my question, if it was a finished Lightning, did you have the rudder pedals far enough forward?  The Lightning "in flight" adjustable rudder pedals are great.  The provide for more leg room than any other aircraft I have flown.  I am 6'2" and have no problem, they go way further forward than I need them for my legs.  So if you have long legs, run the rudder pedals forward and slump down in the seat to get more head room.  It this works, you can have the upholstery folks build your seat cushions for the seating position that works for you.     

    

Buz  

  



 

         

  

See what's free at AOL.com.   

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		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List 	
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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help me I'm hooked!

John:



That is exactly how I felt when I sat in the airplane.  My shoulders are very big, so it can be uncomfortable when flying with someone else as big as me.  However, I have been flying in a 172 which is something like 39" in width and after I take off, I usually don't think about it.



It is the headroom that bugs me the most as my head hit the top; and I did not have a headset on either.  The nice thing about the Lightning community is that they all want to help each other, so maybe we can all work something out.



The canopy resize would seem to be the easiest way to do this, but creating a new mold is not cheap.  Maybe if a few of use offered to help with that cost, they would redesign the canopy and offer a "FAT HEAD" option, (grin)...



Actually, if the canopy was molded something like a Glasair, more squared than rounded, with a minimal increase in height, it would provide more room perhaps without a sacrifice in speed?

sailmo(at)erols.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: Help me I'm hooked!

Thanks for the reply.

When PIC in the 172, my wife keeps her seat back at the rear end of the 

seat track, so we are not quite side by side.  With my left shoulder 

pressing up against the door, my head is closer to the centerline of the 

airplane than if I were not so broad of a guy.  Perhaps that is why I 

can land on the centerline of the runway, I'm looking directly over the 

nose of the plane.



I'm all for exploring some ideas and sharing in the cost of development 

of an oversize canopy. 



Regards,

JDW



pequeajim wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



John:



That is exactly how I felt when I sat in the airplane.  My shoulders are very big, so it can be uncomfortable when flying with someone else as big as me.  However, I have been flying in a 172 which is something like 39" in width and after I take off, I usually don't think about it.



It is the headroom that bugs me the most as my head hit the top; and I did not have a headset on either.  The nice thing about the Lightning community is that they all want to help each other, so maybe we can all work something out.



The canopy resize would seem to be the easiest way to do this, but creating a new mold is not cheap.  Maybe if a few of use offered to help with that cost, they would redesign the canopy and offer a "FAT HEAD" option, (grin)...



Actually, if the canopy was molded something like a Glasair, more squared than rounded, with a minimal increase in height, it would provide more room perhaps without a sacrifice in speed?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105573#105573

cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: Help me I'm hooked!

The Nemesis NXT has staggered side-by-side seating,

but is more expensive and a bit of a different beast.

If you are an expert pilot, you may want to take a

look at that plane. Charles!

--- "John D. Williams" <sailmo(at)erols.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Williams" <sailmo(at)erols.com>

 Thanks for the reply.

 When PIC in the 172, my wife keeps her seat back at

 the rear end of the 

 seat track, so we are not quite side by side.  With

 my left shoulder 

 pressing up against the door, my head is closer to

 the centerline of the 

 airplane than if I were not so broad of a guy. 

 Perhaps that is why I 

 can land on the centerline of the runway, I'm

 looking directly over the 

 nose of the plane.

 I'm all for exploring some ideas and sharing in the

 cost of development 

 of an oversize canopy. 

 Regards,

 JDW

 pequeajim wrote:

 >

 <pequeajim(at)gmail.com>

 >

 >John:

 >

 >That is exactly how I felt when I sat in the

 airplane.  My shoulders are very big, so it can be

 uncomfortable when flying with someone else as big

 as me.  However, I have been flying in a 172 which

 is something like 39" in width and after I take off,

 I usually don't think about it.

 >

 >It is the headroom that bugs me the most as my head

 hit the top; and I did not have a headset on either.

  The nice thing about the Lightning community is

 that they all want to help each other, so maybe we

 can all work something out.

 >

 >The canopy resize would seem to be the easiest way

 to do this, but creating a new mold is not cheap. 

 Maybe if a few of use offered to help with that

 cost, they would redesign the canopy and offer a

 "FAT HEAD" option, (grin)...

 >

 >Actually, if the canopy was molded something like a

 Glasair, more squared than rounded, with a minimal

 increase in height, it would provide more room

 perhaps without a sacrifice in speed?

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >Read this topic online here:

 >

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105573#105573

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >  

 >

 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List

 Web Forums!

TV dinner still cooling? 

Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

http://tv.yahoo.com/

pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Help me I'm hooked!

Way out of my league...



No interest at all.

vettin74(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: Help me I'm hooked!

John...

   

  I belive it is worth another look...i know that green landings has the original seat pans and center console and that the sit mush higher that the new ones.......i have a customer who is taller than you and about 250 who owns one and he fits great...has the new seating... this is the only seats available now...

   

   

  Nick...

   

  Arion Aircraft 

  



"John D. Williams" <sailmo(at)erols.com> wrote:

  [quote]Greetings all:

I too, am hooked on the Lightning performance, looks, cost, etc.  I personally know Buz Rich, have sat in his plane, and I recently sat in a finished Lightning based in Virginia.  Prior to sitting in the Lightning, I was ready to pull the trigger, put down a deposit, and schedule some builder's assist  time.  Unfortunately, the canopy touches the top of my head even when I am scrunched down in the seat; and that is WITHOUT a headset on.  I believe that the Lightning that I sat in had the usual amount of foam in the seat - the new and improved LESSER amount.   I am not so sure if the plane that I sat in has the 'narrow' console between the two seats; but I think that it did.  I am not as tall as Jim Langley, I am 5' 11" and weigh 260.  My shoulders are VERY broad - I hardly fit into a Cessna 172.  A few days ago, I tried to fit into a Velocity SE, but could not close the door without turning my shoulder inwards.   I need a plane with cabin width of at least 46 inches and a canopy that will let me sit up in comfort with a head set on.



Despite the fact that my shoulders were brushing up against my wife's shoulders, I felt that I could be comfortable in the Lightning seat for a long distance flight (butt  room), but with the canopy touching my head, there is no way for me to feel comfortable making a purchase decision unless there is a remedy ( a canopy with more volume at head level).  While this seems like a problem that could easily be remedied; I am sure that a canopy redesign is far more complex than I can imagine.  Plus, how will a larger canopy affect performance - will a larger canopy completely destroy the Lightning advantages of fuel efficient FAST flight?



I am ready to invest the money it would take to purchase a nicely equipped Lightning; but I fear that I must look elsewhere for a plane that has enough room for a pilot with my size shoulders.  Perhaps the only answer for me is to find a partner and purchase a share of a used Cirrus.  From experience, the Cirrus cabin is adequate (and yes, I realize that a Cirrus is a 4 seat plane, the Lightning is not).  



I am NOT knocking the Lightning - like Jim Langley, I am simply  expressing my experience and frustration.  I like the Lightning and think it is well engineered and gives plenty of bang for the buck.  If only I could fit inside!!  Like Jim Langley, I was crushed when I experienced the lack of headroom under the canopy.



I'd sure like to know of a good solution within the next 3 weeks.  I want to have a great plane ready to fly out to the West coast at the end of the summer.  If the Lightning community can come up with a great solution, I will rethink building a Lightning; but if I don't get started soon, a new Lightning would not be ready by the time I want to head out west at the end of August.



Thanks for letting me give my 2 cents worth of opinion;

John D. Williams

Williamsburg, VA

757 565-2022



Jim Langley wrote:

  [quote]               	  Quote: 	
		  I want to make a plea to all of you who are Lightning owners to possibly help me.  I have flown in the Green Landings Lightning, and just came back from a trip to Shelbyville where my brother in law and I sat in a Lightning that

 was on the floor.  This was (I believe one of the new Lightnings with the narrow console and more room.<?xml:namespace prefix = o /> To say that I was disappointed would be a minor statement; I was crushed! I just don’t fit.  To start with, I am a pretty big fellow, 6’-2” and 265lmb, but the main thing was that I had to tilt my head sideways when I closed the canopy, as did my brother in law, (he’s 6’-3” and

 skinny). We were bumping shoulders, but I kind of expected that.  I did not expect the lack of headroom though.  I really love the aircraft, engine, and all the things about the Lightning except the room! I can’t bring myself to give up on this little gem and am wondering if there are some things that could be done (besides cutting off my legs), that would create more room in the

 aircraft.  	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1[quote]I will be at Sun and Fun looking at airplanes and will hopefully see some of you there.  Maybe we can some up with some ideas.  I plan on getting in the demo  It's here! Your new message!

Get [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/] new email alerts[/url] with the free [url= http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/]Yahoo! Toolbar.[/url] [quote][b]

pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: Help me I'm hooked!

Nick… Who is that?  I would love to talk to him as I go 6’-2” and run about the same weight.  

   

Did he do anything special to the aircraft during construction to accommodate his larger frame?  

   

Jim!  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nick otterback

 Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 5:33 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Help me I'm hooked!  

  

     

John...  

    

   

    

I belive it is worth another look...i know that green landings has the original seat pans and center console and that the sit mush higher that the new ones.......i have a customer who is taller than you and about 250 who owns one and he fits great...has the new seating... this is the only seats available now...  

    

   

    

   

    

Nick...  

    

   

    

Arion Aircraft   

    



 

 "John D. Williams" <sailmo(at)erols.com> wrote:  

  [quote]  

Greetings all:

 I too, am hooked on the Lightning performance, looks, cost, etc.  I personally know Buz Rich, have sat in his plane, and I recently sat in a finished Lightning based in Virginia.  Prior to sitting in the Lightning, I was ready to pull the trigger, put down a deposit, and schedule some builder's assist time.  Unfortunately, the canopy touches the top of my head even when I am scrunched down in the seat; and that is WITHOUT a headset on.  I believe that the Lightning that I sat in had the usual amount of foam in the seat - the new and improved LESSER amount.   I am not so sure if the plane that I sat in has the 'narrow' console between the two seats; but I think that it did.  I am not as tall as Jim Langley, I am 5' 11" and weigh 260.  My shoulders are VERY broad - I hardly fit into a Cessna 172.  A few days ago, I tried to fit into a Velocity SE, but could not close the door without turning my shoulder inwards.   I need a plane with cabin width of at least 46 inches and a canopy that will let me sit up in comfort with a head set on.

 

 Despite the fact that my shoulders were brushing up against my wife's shoulders, I felt that I could be comfortable in the Lightning seat for a long distance flight (butt room), but with the canopy touching my head, there is no way for me to feel comfortable making a purchase decision unless there is a remedy ( a canopy with more volume at head level).  While this seems like a problem that could easily be remedied; I am sure that a canopy redesign is far more complex than I can imagine.  Plus, how will a larger canopy affect performance - will a larger canopy completely destroy the Lightning advantages of fuel efficient FAST flight?

 

 I am ready to invest the money it would take to purchase a nicely equipped Lightning; but I fear that I must look elsewhere for a plane that has enough room for a pilot with my size shoulders.  Perhaps the only answer for me is to find a partner and purchase a share of a used Cirrus.  From experience, the Cirrus cabin is adequate (and yes, I realize that a Cirrus is a 4 seat plane, the Lightning is not).  

 

 I am NOT knocking the Lightning - like Jim Langley, I am simply expressing my experience and frustration.  I like the Lightning and think it is well engineered and gives plenty of bang for the buck.  If only I could fit inside!!  Like Jim Langley, I was crushed when I experienced the lack of headroom under the canopy.

 

 I'd sure like to know of a good solution within the next 3 weeks.  I want to have a great plane ready to fly out to the West coast at the end of the summer.  If the Lightning community can come up with a great solution, I will rethink building a Lightning; but if I don't get started soon, a new Lightning would not be ready by the time I want to head out west at the end of August.

 

 Thanks for letting me give my 2 cents worth of opinion;

 John D. Williams

 Williamsburg, VA

 757 565-2022

 

 

 

 Jim Langley wrote:

 

    	  Quote: 	
		  I want to make a plea to all of you who are Lightning owners to possibly help me.  I have flown in the Green Landings Lightning, and just came back from a trip to Shelbyville where my brother in law and I sat in a Lightning that was on the floor.  This was (I believe one of the new Lightnings with the narrow console and more room. 	
 	  Quote: 	
		   To say that I was disappointed would be a minor statement; I was crushed! I just don’t fit.  To start with, I am a pretty big fellow, 6’-2” and 265lmb, but the main thing was that I had to tilt my head sideways when I closed the canopy, as did my brother in law, (he’s 6’-3” and skinny). We were bumping shoulders, but I kind of expected that.  I did not expect the lack of headroom though.  I really love the aircraft, engine, and all the things about the Lightning except the room!  was on the floor.  This was (I believe one of the new Lightnings with the narrow console and more room. 	
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