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problems with new factory

 
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rashvac(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

What problems have been notice with the new factory and the Rv 10 quick build I got one of the first ones from the new factory but do not know what to look for it has alot of scratches on the wings but I hoped that paint would hide them. Have not started working on the fuse yet what should I look for.

Russell Shavitz
Shavitz Heating & Air Conditioning
4849 Main Street, Skokie, IL 60077
office: 847-678-1000
cell: 847-417-6622
www.shavitz.com


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Kelly McMullen



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1187
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

Defects from new QBs....Ailerons and flaps trailing edge not double
flush riveted with a flush rivet set, rather driven all the way with
back rivet set, so rivets are over driven leaving a dimpled
appearance. Just exchanged for new set which are better, but still
done wrong.
Fuselage...mid fuse longerons F1046L&R only skins were dimpled,
longerons were not countersunk, so attachment was by rivet shank only.
Longerons not cut to length, both top and mid-section. Much tougher to
make clean cuts with die grinder or Dremel than it would have been on
band saw. Baggage floor support rails and side skines not dimpled, nor
installed with more than a couple throwaway pop rivets. So spent today
dimpling skins with pop rivet dimple dies because once skins were
riveted on, nothing else would reach. A real PITA. Upper longerons not
drilled for tail cone, nor the template for them supplied. All snap
bushings for wire runs missing, as well as some other hardware. The
control column mounts were not trimmed per plans, so have to remove
them and cut out per plans.
My fuel vent line in one tank was bent wrong, leaving no room for
sending unit float. Took some creative effort to figure how to move it
without kinking the soft aluminum, given the only access is through
the sending unit hole.
I guess that hits the highlights. I'm probably forgetting other stuff.
Phil Perry had a pretty good list on his.

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Russell Shavitz <rashvac(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
Quote:


What problems have been notice with the new factory and the Rv 10 quick build I got one of the first ones from the new factory but do not know what to look for it has alot of scratches on the wings but I hoped that paint would hide them. Have not started working on the fuse yet what should I look for.

Russell Shavitz
Shavitz Heating & Air Conditioning
4849 Main Street, Skokie, IL 60077
office:  847-678-1000
cell:  847-417-6622
www.shavitz.com



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Kelly McMullen
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rv10flyer



Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: problems with new factory Reply with quote

Oh I am so glad I ordered the slow build wings and fuse kits. They are patiently waiting for me to finish the tailcone. It is not much of a quick build if you have to go back over and redo 25% of it. Also how much of the inaccessible areas are done incorrectly? I would be slightly aggravated with all those problems especially for what you pay. Back to building. Have fun guys.

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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

Our DSL is out at the house, so I haven't been able to send my punch list. I'm on my blackberry right now.

I'll share my list as soon as we get the service back. Rudi Greyling added to my list, so it's fairly complete. But ymmv, Kelly ran into a few things that no others have hit yet. I know of 6 recent QB's and they're all similar.

Phil

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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1691
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:51 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

It doesn't come close to 25%. Yes, some of the details are agrevating,
but on the whole you get a lot of work done with 90%+ being very high
quality, very professional work. No, the shortcuts shouldn't be there,
Van's shouldn't use their customers as quality control inspectors, but
there isn't any other game in town. It is a choice of saving 6-12 months
worth of construction or doing it your way, getting to suffer your own
mistakes that hurt even more to fix. If you avoid making mistakes, you
are better than 99% of builders.
Kelly
A&P/IA
Tech Counselor

rv10flyer wrote:
Quote:


Oh I am so glad I ordered the slow build wings and fuse kits. They are patiently waiting for me to finish the tailcone. It is not much of a quick build if you have to go back over and redo 25% of it. Also how much of the inaccessible areas are done incorrectly? I would be slightly aggravated with all those problems especially for what you pay. Back to building. Have fun guys.

--------
Wayne Gillispie


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Kelly McMullen
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ricksked(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:46 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

That's BS...My standard built RV-10 didn't have any problems...because I built it ALL...you QB builders forked over the cash and sorry to say suffered a few setbacks albeit minor to fix compared to actually building each kit..I will tell you at the time, I had my wings and fuselage to the same point in construction as the QB kits within the lead time for delivery of the QB kits so to think you're getting in the air faster may be a misnomer..My big mistake was building an extra trim tab...and everyone has to build them...I'll admit I am considering QB wings on the next build if only to get rid of the endless rib deburring but the fuselage is FUN to build, goes quick and you control the quality The only person you can blame for FODing out your fuselage with a cleco or two is you..

Rick S.
40185
Flyin
83 hours on the clock
---


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bwestfall



Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 128
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:46 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

I completed the fuselage section up to the QB point in a touch under 6 mo.
That was working several evenings a week and at least two weekends a month
so not really hitting it to hard. I also really enjoyed the work. It was
nice to be working on a completely different looking/feeling part every
couple of days. Section 29 is a real bitch and takes forever though. I
guess what I'm saying is that I'd consider going standard build for the fuse
over QB. The wings were boring though and I would probably go QB on those
if doing it again.

If somebody could come up with a quick build option for raising our infant
daughter I'd probably get to spend more time building Smile. I'm planning to
get back to building again though hopefully this week. It's hard to want to
"jump back in" when I was working w/the doors and fiberglass top last
though. Is there a QB option for bolting on a top and doors... now that I
would buy!

-Ben



It doesn't come close to 25%. Yes, some of the details are agrevating,
but on the whole you get a lot of work done with 90%+ being very high
quality, very professional work. No, the shortcuts shouldn't be there,
Van's shouldn't use their customers as quality control inspectors, but
there isn't any other game in town. It is a choice of saving 6-12 months
worth of construction or doing it your way, getting to suffer your own
mistakes that hurt even more to fix. If you avoid making mistakes, you
are better than 99% of builders.
Kelly
A&P/IA
Tech Counselor

rv10flyer wrote:
Quote:


Oh I am so glad I ordered the slow build wings and fuse kits. They are
patiently waiting for me to finish the tailcone. It is not much of a quick

build if you have to go back over and redo 25% of it. Also how much of the
inaccessible areas are done incorrectly? I would be slightly aggravated with
all those problems especially for what you pay. Back to building. Have fun
guys.
Quote:

--------
Wayne Gillispie


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1691
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

Unhuh. You didn't drill out any rivets, they all went in perfect. All
your cuts were perfect. Sure, I believe in the tooth fairy and money
trees too. Only one extra trim tab eh? I've seen some pairs done 3
times, and others that builders ignored improper bends.
It isn't necessarily about getting into the air quicker calendar-wise.
Some folks have other demands on their time that limits how much time
they can spend building, whether it is kids, job, etc.
Actual time spent fixing problems with QB...perhaps 2 days of work.

ricksked(at)cox.net wrote:
Quote:


That's BS...My standard built RV-10 didn't have any
problems...because I built it ALL...you QB builders forked over the
cash and sorry to say suffered a few setbacks albeit minor to fix
compared to actually building each kit..I will tell you at the time,
I had my wings and fuselage to the same point in construction as the
QB kits within the lead time for delivery of the QB kits so to think
you're getting in the air faster may be a misnomer..My big mistake
was building an extra trim tab...and everyone has to build
them...I'll admit I am considering QB wings on the next build if only
to get rid of the endless rib deburring but the fuselage is FUN to
build, goes quick and you control the quality The only person you can
blame for FODing out your fuselage with a cleco or two is you..

Rick S. 40185 Flyin 83 hours on the clock


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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:23 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

For me the answer is simple. If I had an airplane to fly today, I'd go SB. But I don't so I'm going QB on everything.

Considering how much time I get to build and the number of mistakes I make, the fuse to QB state would easily be a year of work. For $6K, I'm okay with cutting a year off the build. The money is much easier to find than the time.

I'd do the same thing again if I were in the same situation.  (No plane)

But once this one gets in the air, I'll probably start another airplane of some type.  It'll be a SB and I'll enjoy the process and quest for perfection a bit more.

You won't find any regrets from my side. Everyone's case is unique. Family, time, finances, facilities, and current airplane ownership all play roles and everyone will find the solution they think fits their situation.

Phil





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ricksked(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

He don't know me very well do he!! Ask any old time members of this forum what I'm known for...never setting a bad rivet...as for bad cuts I have a history of working with explosives so no....I don't make bad cuts either ...heh heh.....thought this list was getting a bit quiet lately..you forgot to sign off with all you alphabet soup this time!!!

Rick Sked
ARM, AIC, CHS all around good guy
N246RS kit 40185
Flying
Tech Counselor(newbie)
Dragon Slayer
Instigator Smile
Will also rescue Damsels in Distress for a nominal fee

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1691
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

Deems warned me about you. ;-p
Remember IA's stock in trade is finding things wrong with aircraft and
their paperwork. Should I send the Cox crew to take a looksee?

ricksked(at)cox.net wrote:
Quote:


He don't know me very well do he!! Ask any old time members of this forum what I'm known for...never setting a bad rivet...as for bad cuts I have a history of working with explosives so no....I don't make bad cuts either ...heh heh.....thought this list was getting a bit quiet lately..you forgot to sign off with all you alphabet soup this time!!!

Rick Sked
ARM, AIC, CHS all around good guy
N246RS kit 40185
Flying
Tech Counselor(newbie)
Dragon Slayer
Instigator Smile
Will also rescue Damsels in Distress for a nominal fee


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Kelly McMullen
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KCHD
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n8zg(at)mchsi.com
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:49 am    Post subject: problems with new factory Reply with quote

Rick -
Say it ain't so! Send your wings to me. I could use a(nother) project...
neal

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David Shelton



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 22
Location: C77

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: problems with new factory Reply with quote

Setting up production of an airplane kit in another country is a very challenging task. I would imagine Vans will continue to improve the quality but it sure sounds like a good deal... even if there are a few mistakes. The very worst kit from Vans is better quality than most other kits on the market.

Are folks generally finding the same problems or are they all different?


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